Angel Beats! - Speculations & Theories

[Khu]

Originally Posted by Haak

We're not trying to entertain you. ¬_____¬

I know that. But you might as well make it fun to read for the rest of us ^^

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by Thoguht

And I have a thought for those who believe that the characters are truly dead and in some type of afterlife/purgatory/limbo. Numbers. In this case, the numbers 0 and 1. Since when was the afterlife in binary?

I don't consider that to be relevant to how they got there. We're talking about several hundred high-schoolers from one country alone being pushed to the edge of death but not over it. Do you have any idea how hard that is compared to just killing them right out? To have the number of comatose teens in the "school" Japan would have to be losing thousands of teens to deaths or lighter injuries.
I'm putting down my money that we won't see anyone (from the "school") waking from a coma by the end of this series.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Thoguht

And I have a thought for those who believe that the characters are truly dead and in some type of afterlife/purgatory/limbo. Numbers. In this case, the numbers 0 and 1. Since when was the afterlife in binary? We know that Kanade derives her powers from a piece of software, we even see the binary digits when she uses her skills. And even the world's self-repair mechanism has "Matrix-like" visual effects - for example, the lamp repairing itself at 23:12 in episode 1. This is no afterlife for the dead, this is a virtual reality for the living.

That the world has "ended" and the characters were copied into a high intermainframe system to live on as memories!?

Are you trying to say that this anime is Zegapain?

Holy shit. That would actually explain the NPCs.

[Qikz]

Originally Posted by Crontica

That the world has "ended" and the characters were copied into a high intermainframe system to live on as memories!?

Are you trying to say that this anime is Zegapain?

Holy shit. That would actually explain the NPCs.

It would also kind of explain why and how they can make weapons out of anything, as in anything they remember it's as if they haven't learnt the skill to make other things yet.

[Ice Block]

Spoiler for Replies to Haak; quite short, I'm getting tired of this:

Ha? Whether Iwasawa knew she was gonna disappear or not is up to speculation. However, whether she knew or not, she never wavered in the slightest althroughout that episode. The reason why she was not "caught in the moment" is precisely this. If you hadn't already noticed, being "caught in the moment" implies a change of heart (varying degrees). Allow me to repeat: If you didn't know what you were trying to avoid, you're just being engrossed in the activity. In engrossment, from your perspective, everything is going according to plan. Thus, we could say that Iwasawa was engrossed in singing My Song.

As for your "factors", look at it this way: no matter how large a number you imagine can be, it'll still be a far cry from infinity.

Originally Posted by Haak

I never said he cared more about disappearing.

Originally Posted by Haak

Hinata cared more about inner peace at that time rather than taking care of Yuri

Right...

Originally Posted by Haak

My point is that his decision not to go through with it was not because of Yuri and her loneliness. He simply decided to help Yuri because he had nothing else to do, since he didn’t want o disappear. That’s quite different from him not wanting to disappear because of Yuri.

You're still ignoring one very important question. Do you know which one it is?

Originally Posted by Haak

THAT SHOULDN’T BE A FACTOR

It is an important factor. Try to look at the big picture: why would he continue playing to win if he doesn't want to win?

Originally Posted by Haak

Actually that is an argument.

Nope. It's fallacious to take that as an argument. It's a simple definition of terms, akin to stating that an apple cannot be an orange because it does not fit the definition of an orange. The argument concerns the determination of Hinata's true self, which you should already be pondering through my question paragraph.

Originally Posted by Haak

Lovely, but that’s an entirely different point that we’re already discussing

You missed my point. Read my post again. Follow the links. I should not be spoonfeeding this.

Originally Posted by Haak

Yes these are all gestures. And you’re asking me to look at her facial expression.

You're not very attentive, are you? All expressions and gestures matter, especially for Kuuderes.

Anyway, I'm tired of this rather pointless debate. Now, you're even twisting my definition of "caught in the moment". Perhaps you need to read it again? Anyway, you seem to know of XKCD (if you didn't, take a look at it -- it's where the comic you posted came from), so I suggest you take your time, learn some science, and get a feel of how the universe is entirely predictable due to universal laws. And please, stop ignoring evidence. Some of your rebuttals to my claims can be simplified to this.

Anyway, let's just put this to rest and agree to disagree or whatnot. You will not be required to reply to anything I stated above.

[Dark_Force9999]

Episode 11 made it became clear that, that world is not exactly a world where people would find their inner peace to pass on.

I believed that each character infact didn't died. I'm going to take a big guess: Hinata got hit by a car/truck w/e it was, but is probably still in a coma state. Otanashi passed out before the rescue came. So in the end I'm just saying each character must've not died.

Following my predictions, each character is possibly hooked into a digital world to make up the time they lost while in their coma state of some sort. The reason why I said digital world, is because of a couple thing:

1) You cannot die. Which explains miraculous recoveries.
2) Everything seems to be affect by computers.

Tachibana's abilities are made with the Angel Player software. How that actually gives supernatural abilities, is strange. NPC's turning into shadows, it had a digital effect rather than some ominous transformation.


Okay, but to wrap this up quickly: While the characters are in a coma, they need to find their inner peace to wake up quickly. If their bodies takes too long to wake up from, those bodies probably cannot handle the strain anymore. The system then copies the character using the shadows and turns them into NPCs, while in reality those people that couldn't survive longer gets discarded. It has to be some form of medical treatment.

[Arbitres]

@Darkforce9999

You don't know humility... Do you? 'Probably right' is borderline arrogant. You may be right, you may not be. So far everything is still up in the air. I wouldn't go 'probably wrong' or 'probably right' on anything at the moment.

I'd doubt anyone will be waking up from a coma or a deep sleep/cryo stasis sleep. Though this is a 50% 50% thing since we have no real information to go on. The information that has been provided... well, has been provided a few hundred times by Haak and Ice Block.

Me? No opinion until I see the designated, canon truth. Only a little further... Only a little further...

Go Shiina! Give your Corrines wuff!... Wait.

[pampz21]

Spoiler for 12:

episode 12 Yuri asking if this world can give salvation to her too...probably asking Otonashi...

[Knightrunner]

I have not seen the episode yet, but since people are saying she is visiting the guild members maybe she is off to warn them about the threat so they can find inner piece as well. Or maybe she will confront Chaa if he ever heard of this phenomenon before. If it is true that the Shadows turn people to NPC maybe the NPC were human at one point and then got caught by the shadows.

Since the guild members are left in the dark maybe Yurippe is going to warn them.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

I have not seen the episode yet, but since people are saying she is visiting the guild members maybe she is off to warn them about the threat so they can find inner piece as well. Or maybe she will confront Chaa if he ever heard of this phenomenon before. If it is true that the Shadows turn people to NPC maybe the NPC were human at one point and then got caught by the shadows.

Since the guild members are left in the dark maybe Yurippe is going to warn them.

I guess you can put it that way.

But we have to wonder about how and why the shadows were created. I have 3 theories.
1. The "higher ups" are using the shadows as a "reset" to all students to make a new generation of NPC.
2. Caused by the prolonged regret of people (SSS)
3. NPCs gone haywire (think similar to how some normal cells become cancer cells)

[PNGO]

I totally didn't see this thread and posted my theory about the culprit in the ep 11 thread.

The real culprit IMHO IS!!!!:

Spoiler for culprit!:

Takamatsu !!

Seriously his "death" was really fishy imo, he could have been acting all along and pretending to be just a retarded guy with huge muscles.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was thrully evil

[Dark_Force9999]

But why can't anyone look at why computers are culprits here? It's a digital world, it HAS TO BE!

[Arbitres]

I can see Yurippe already.

"Oh dear, wonderful, splendid and superbly benevolent god in Heaven!"....

The only way for Yuri to move on is for her to drop her hate. I think that's how she will disappear.

Spoiler for T3h culpr1t:

Takamatsu being the culprit? Might explain something... LIKE WHY HE WAS TRAINING!~ AH-HA! We found you out, malcontent soul! Naoi, it's all yours!

Naoi: Yamato Taker---

No. Not that. :| The 'other'.

Naoi: *hypnotic* You are a clown.

(-_- ) no. But nice try. The OTHER thing.

Naoi: *gropes Otonashi*

Never mind.

I'm interested in who they will choose to be the villain in the end. There are so many possible prospects. I personally would like the idea of Chaa being the bad guy. He is pretty damn absent and it could show what he was up to.

Plus he has 'memories' (You can create stuff from dirt thanks to 'memories') so maybe he made Shadows? Never mind. That is crack. So crack. PUFF!

[Von Himmel]

After reading this : http://angelbeats.wikia.com/wiki/Chaa
Now I'm scared that perhaps he is the culprit himself D: Not to mention that the secret passageway connects to the guild...

[Dark_Force9999]

Afterlife = Digital World. "Age of Computers" - Mysterious Software engineer at night with Yuri.

[Arbitres]

.... Do you have any viable information on that claim? Any logistics?

Yuri calling the soulless entities known as model students 'NPCs' was just an easier identification. If you haven't realized that was a simple title given to them since it'd be easier to identify them as such.

The world being digital is only possible. NOT probable. Are you still reading? Okay. The world may or may not be digital.

Please elaborate with logistics shown in Angel Beats! that support your claim. Also you should be thorough about this so you may be a bit more persuasive.

Of course stating things as facts won't win you any popularity contest. All this is... This entire thread's purpose is speculation.

Give me some seriously concrete evidence that support your speculation. Until then I'm not really interested in what you have to say.

Lovely that. Since Angel Beats! has almost no concrete evidence. Though I can imagine them being dead -- I won't disclose the possibility of them being alive. I need evidence in order to make my decision on the matter.

It's like that.

[Attoney]

I have some theories on the culprit:
I think the culprit is the one that was responsible for Kanade's harmonics haywire incident. Since the culprit is obviously experienced in the Angel Prayer program to the extent of changing the world's enviroment, making a few modifications to Kanade's skills without Kanade noticing is possible.

But why?
Well, I think the culprit is trying to eliminate the SSS by making them obey the rules of the world or restore peace to this world. His first attempt is to create an army of aggressive Kanade's from Harmonics, which will suppress the SSS, and make them obey the rules through force. However, that plan failed.

So, for his second attempt, he will transform the world's NPC into shadows that will possess the SSS member and transform them into model students (NPC's).

Possible Identity:
The culprit has a high probability of a having a connection with Kanade(a past' friend or something), which will lead in to Kanade's backstory, and her goal in this world. The outright explicit confirmation and acknowlegement that Kanade is human, and has a burden that is keeping her from moving on foreshadows a incoming backstory about her. Besides, every main character besides her getting a backstory in this anime series is highly unlikely.

Just some thoughts while I was bored.

[Dark_Force9999]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

.... Do you have any viable information on that claim? Any logistics?

Yuri calling the soulless entities known as model students 'NPCs' was just an easier identification. If you haven't realized that was a simple title given to them since it'd be easier to identify them as such.

The world being digital is only possible. NOT probable. Are you still reading? Okay. The world may or may not be digital.

Please elaborate with logistics shown in Angel Beats! that support your claim. Also you should be thorough about this so you may be a bit more persuasive.

Of course stating things as facts won't win you any popularity contest. All this is... This entire thread's purpose is speculation.

Give me some seriously concrete evidence that support your speculation. Until then I'm not really interested in what you have to say.

Lovely that. Since Angel Beats! has almost no concrete evidence. Though I can imagine them being dead -- I won't disclose the possibility of them being alive. I need evidence in order to make my decision on the matter.

It's like that.

I had been. Read some earlier posts.

[Haak]

Spoiler for space:

Originally Posted by Ice Block

Ha? Whether Iwasawa knew she was gonna disappear or not is up to speculation. However, whether she knew or not, she never wavered in the slightest althroughout that episode. The reason why she was not "caught in the moment" is precisely this. If you hadn't already noticed, being "caught in the moment" implies a change of heart (varying degrees). Allow me to repeat: If you didn't know what you were trying to avoid, you're just being engrossed in the activity. In engrossment, from your perspective, everything is going according to plan. Thus, we could say that Iwasawa was engrossed in singing My Song.

I already told you that it’s unfair to say Iwasawa wanted it whilst Hinata didn’t just because Hinata denied he was going to disappear when Iwasawa didn’t have the luxury responding to a question like that. If you want to challenge that then you have to prove that Iwasawa knew she was gonna disappear. It may not be what you were trying to prove before but it’s what the argument comes down to. If you can’t prove that then you can’t prove it your way rather than mine.

I already told you I’m going by a different definition. I don’t care much for yours and you’ve given me no reason to either. I already explained to you why she never wavered the slightest in my viewpoint. Just so you know, it doesn’t count as ‘evidence’ if i can do that.

As for your "factors", look at it this way: no matter how large a number you imagine can be, it'll still be a far cry from infinity.

....what? Well the fact is that using your ‘human logic’, Hinata shouldn’t have been ‘caught in the moment'. It’s your own logic, you know. You were the one who suggested that Yuri ought to be Hinata's first priority and that their relationship is such an extent that him disappearing would have Yuri lonely all over again. If that's the case then it naturally follows then his relationship would be strong enough to prevent him from being 'caught in the moment', because he would consider what him disappearing might mean to Yuri. But he didn't. According to you he deceived himself into thinking he won't disappear simply for the sake of winning the game. How does that make sense? If he really cares about Yuri that much then naturally he would consider the possibility of disappearing very bad indeed. How on earth does simply 'wanting to win the game' override that? Doesn't that mean that 'winning the game' must have meant a lot to him (which is exactly what i'm thinking).

Right...

You’re taking it out of context. The first quote was me talking about Hinata during chapter 3. I explained to you that at the time he simply didn’t have the willpower to go through with disappearing and THEN decided to stick with Yuri all the way. It was not a matter of which was first priority to Hinata. The second quote was me talking about Hinata when he was trying to catch the ball. At that point it was bout priority and it turned out that he cared more about finding inner peace. There is no contradiction.

You're still ignoring one very important question. Do you know which one it is?

Nope. Guess I’m not ignoring it. In fact it's probably something i've already addressed...

It is an important factor. Try to look at the big picture: why would he continue playing to win if he doesn't want to win?

1) Did I say he didn’t want to win? No. He probably wanted to win but my point is that his want to win shouldn’t have been strong enough to go to such lengths as to actually deceive himself into thinking this wasn’t a serious situation, in order to win.

2) Exactly. There is no other explanation. Other than the idea that he wanted to win, which as I already pointed out, makes no sense at all (once again, you haven't actually given anything to deny that). Therefore the assumption that he actually meant it when he said he wasn’t going to disappear must be wrong.

3) He continued playing because deep down, he did want to find inner peace. Considering that’s what I’ve been trying to tell you for the past week or so it’s a little irritating that you weren’t even able to grasp the basic point of my argument.

Look. As we've already established, according to your logic there are two factors going inside Hinata's head at the time;
1) Hinata's relationship with Yuri.
2) His desire to win the game

You seem to think my argument is that Number 2 must be wrong. That's not actually the case. My argument is that if Number 2 is right (because you keep saying Number 2 must be right.) then Number 1 must be wrong, and if Number 1 is right then Hinata would have never been 'caught in the moment' in the first place because there would've been no oppurtunity for him to be 'caught in the moment'. But as we know, Hinata did continue and got 'caught in the moment'. That must mean that number 2 is right. But as we've established, if number 2 is right then Number 1 is either wrong or not very strong at all. If that's the case, then Number 1 can not possibly be Hinata's true self, especially if something as simple as wanting to the win the game is enough to override it (remember we're talking about Hinata before he's caught in the moment and supposedly trapped in the stimulator)

Nope. It's fallacious to take that as an argument. It's a simple definition of terms, akin to stating that an apple cannot be an orange because it does not fit the definition of an orange. The argument concerns the determination of Hinata's true self, which you should already be pondering through my question paragraph.

“X is his true self.” is not a definition of terms. It is an assumption that we’re are currently debating. In fact you just said it yourself, so you're contradicting yourself, now.

You missed my point. Read my post again. Follow the links. I should not be spoonfeeding this.

How am I missing the point? I told you we were already discussing that point and we WERE. We still are above, actually. How have I missed anything when we’re already talking about it?

You're not very attentive, are you? All expressions and gestures matter, especially for Kuuderes.

Facial expressions: Yes. Gestures: Yes.
A lack of facial expression?: No.

She hasn’t shown much facial expression throughout the entire show. So it’s ridiculous to say a lack of facial expression means something when it doesn’t. A lack of facial expression doesn’t mean anything for a Kuudere.

Anyway, I'm tired of this rather pointless debate. Now, you're even twisting my definition of "caught in the moment". Perhaps you need to read it again? Anyway, you seem to know of XKCD (if you didn't, take a look at it -- it's where the comic you posted came from), so I suggest you take your time, learn some science, and get a feel of how the universe is entirely predictable due to universal laws. And please, stop ignoring evidence. Some of your rebuttals to my claims can be simplified to this.

1) I said quite specifically “Fine, use whatever terminology you feel like using. The point is that whatever happened to Iwasawa, she didn't see it coming. Just stick to that point.” Do I care about your definitions? No. They are not relevant to the point. Even if I am twisting it (and I'm probably not) it still won't change the fact that it's irrelevant anyway.

2) Great. So you ignore my point that character interpretation =/= world viewpoint and how Psychology of the human mind isn’t as straightforward and predictable as logic and other sciences, right after accusing me ignoring your points without telling me what it is I'm ignoring. And then literally add insult to injury. Just brilliant. By the way, how much of Psychology have you studied? I may have stopped studying it academically in college two years ago but I’ve still retained a healthy interest in it. What about you?

3) You then, tell me I’m ignoring evidence without telling me what it is I’m ignoring. I don't know why you think simply telling me I'm ignoring your points when it seems obvious to me that it's you who's been ignoring my points (in fact, almost every single point you made above is this. The difference is that I can actually tell you what it is you're ignoring). It just makes you look arrogant more than anything else. Just to reiterate: It doesn’t count as evidence if I can explain it in my own viewpoint. Which is exactly what I’ve been doing.

[Crontica]

Flamewar Imminent.

I do not know why it is so hard to see that Hinata was a nervous deer in the headlights when the ball was coming towards him. His subconsciousness which was telling him to "Get the fuck out of there something is off" and his Reasoning which was telling him to "Win the dam game otherwise Yuri will be pissed" sides conflicted and he froze, the result was him wanting to escape.

As for Isawasa, caught in the dam moment. Before she realized what was up it was too late.