Claymore - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[monir]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

But you didn't say if you liked the episode~!

Never mind. Impossible to dislike it. The answer is obvious so you simply dispensed with such a pety reply. We will always grieve for Theresa.

The episode was a so-so in it's likable quality since the purpose of these couple of episodes were to make the shounen aspect of this series obvious such as power level distinctions via ranking, stages of power, and the likes. Remember when I asked that if this show really was a shounen? My question was answered as, "yes" in episode 7 and 8. Then the unexpected, the shocking, the heart wrenching happens out of no where. I probably didn't read the subs for a minute or so even though I continued to stare at the screen. It took me some time to process what really just took place.

[LCeh]

Originally Posted by monir

The episode was a so-so in it's likable quality since the purpose of these couple of episodes were to make the shounen aspect of this series obvious such as power level distinctions via ranking, stages of power, and the likes. Remember when I asked that if this show really was a shounen? My question was answered as, "yes" in episode 7 and 8. Then the unexpected, the shocking, the heart wrenching happens out of no where. I probably didn't read the subs for a minute or so even though I continued to stare at the screen. It took me some time to process what really just took place.

Yea, I think this show should be classified as Shounen, with the theme of achieving your goals, working hard, protecting things that are important, those are shounen themes. But then this one sort of breaks the mold in a lot of aspects. Story is told in a quick paced manner, dialogues are always important, characters do die, even important ones too, such as Teresa, very little training episodes, very little "lose the fight, survive, train, come back and pwn your enemy", etc. This is why I have regarded Claymore as the best ongoing shounen series right now.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

Claire said, "My existence was nothing more to her than a stone by the side of the road. Or perhaps I didn't even get reflected in her eyes. I wasn't enough to fill her belly."

I suppose you can speculate about what this means. There are several ways to interpret it.

I'm curious to know if that is indeed the literal translation of the original Japanese, ie, the line "I didn't even get reflected in her eyes."

Because, thinking in Chinese, I immediately recognise the equivalent concept, but I have a hard time thinking of an English equivalent.

Quoting from my Chinese version of the manga, the sentence reads:

"不，也许从一开始她根本就没放我在眼内。"

It's hard to translate that exactly into English. The gist of it is that Clare was so insignificant that she didn't even register in Awakened Priscilla's mind.

That particular line emphasises the sense of helplessness Clare felt in the face of such terrifying power. I also suspect that the English translation of her quote about feeling like a tiny pebble by the side of the road was taken slightly out of context.

In the Chinese version, Clare literally speculates that Priscilla may have ignored her probably because she was too tiny (like a pebble) to satisfy Priscilla's hunger.

Bottom-line is that Clare herself does not know why she was spared. It isn't until much later in the manga that we get further insight on Priscilla's behaviour.

[LCeh]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Quoting from my Chinese version of the manga, the sentence reads:

"不，也许从一开始她根本就没放我在眼内。"

It's hard to translate that exactly into English. The gist of it is that Clare was so insignificant that she didn't even register in Awakened Priscilla's mind.

The literal translation of that line would be "No, she didn't even bother to even glance at me."

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I'm curious to know if that is indeed the literal translation of the original Japanese, ie, the line "I didn't even get reflected in her eyes."

Hard for me to say since I read the English translation by Viz. We'd need someone who read it in Japanese to answer this question.

Mentar? Can you help?

[zato_1one]

I thought those dialogs in manga were only Clare speculate. Even Clare herself didn't know exact reason why Priscilla didn't kill her. But I pretty sure that those dialogs will be mention later in anime when a little person, you know who, make her appearance...

[NoSanninWa]

I think that the adaptors just felt the scene was more dramatic without the voice over. I think they are right also. If we heard Claire narrating the scene it would have lost some of its starkness and horror.

[Mentar]

Sorry, I don't have the japanese version. But I think that the scene is clear:

On page 88, after striking down Irene, Priscilla turns her head to the side and says "Well then, so long". In my opinion, especially with her turning the head, it's clear that she knows that Clare is there, since she's talking to her... so there's no basis for any "Clare is technically invisible to her" theory.

What Clare is saying that she believes she simply isn't of any importance for Priscilla. Just a stone by the wayside. Not even worth looking at. Insignificant.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Hey thanks, that pretty much squares with what I read from the Chinese translation. Which also means that some subtle meaning was lost in Viz's English translation, because many readers think that Priscilla has some kind of mental block that prevents her from seeing, and therefore attacking, little girls.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Hey thanks, that pretty much squares with what I read from the Chinese translation. Which also means that some subtle meaning was lost in Viz's English translation, because many readers think that Priscilla has some kind of mental block that prevents her from seeing, and therefore attacking, little girls.

That meaning is not lost. It is pretty clear in the metaphor. Actually I think most people realized it was a metaphor. At least I hope they would have understood that.

[HeeroX]

Clare was insignificant, that's why, maybe, the youma taking her didn't eat her?

[karasuma]

Ah.... I didn't expect Teresa to die like that. I also got fool by the OP which has Teresa crossing sword with Clare.

Anyway, it is sad to see her die. This is one awesome series. Look at Noel and Sophie, even they got top notch seiyuu.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by karasuma

Ah.... I didn't expect Teresa to die like that. I also got fool by the OP which has Teresa crossing sword with Clare.

I know very, very little about this story (I just started watching it like two days ago), but I have this nagging, irrational feeling that some of these characters are not quite ded. Granted, no one could survive getting their head lopped off/impaled through the face/their heart ripped open, but it seems like a lot of talent and character development for such a short stint...

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

I know very, very little about this story (I just started watching it like two days ago), but I have this nagging, irrational feeling that some of these characters are not quite ded. Granted, no one could survive getting their head lopped off/impaled through the face/their heart ripped open, but it seems like a lot of talent and character development for such a short stint...

That's amusing for you to say since last episode, some people were complaining that Irene, Noel and Sophia were barely given merely skeletal personalities.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

That's amusing for you to say since last episode, some people were complaining that Irene, Noel and Sophia were barely given merely skeletal personalities.

I have to disagree. Being underdeveloped (I should have used the term 'personality' instead of 'development' in that last post) to the audience is not the same as being given a "skeletal personality." They all three had quite broad personalities, but I'm not surprised no one picked up on it. Often characters are developed much more completely than the story allows to be shown. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging, but I've always been very perceptive of people (real and otherwise) and I notice a lot of unquantifiable things most people miss (I also have a perfect score on 'Spot the Yoma,' which made it hard to enjoy the first four episodes due to their predictability). I think I get it from my mother...

[Bloodseeker]

Ugh... this episode brought back memories of *spoilers* from Victory Gundam. Getting unnecessarily killed off, one after the other, just as I start to grow attached. I could see where Teresa's death was necessary to proceed with the story, but Sophia and Noel should have stuck around. One or two necessary deaths of likable characters is forgivable, but its terrible storytelling to kill off likable characters in mass like in this episode.

And before anyone brings up the realism argument, this isn't reality, this is fiction, and a good work of fiction keeps its likable characters around and doesn't just throw away any character that's built upon somewhat. Seriously, what did their deaths accomplish? "Priscilla's a monster." Yeah, I kinda got that from her newfound fighting style of getting Teresa to drop guard by feigning a call for help. Typical bad guy stuff. If that wasn't enough, then they should have had the claymores get out of there and thrown some cannon fodder at her later. There are so many ways that they could have gotten that point across just as effectively without kill Sophia and Noel off.

[FatPianoBoy]

They accomplished absolutely nothing. That's why it's so darn sad

There are two kinds of realism in fiction: there's the universal realisms like 'people can't fly' and such, which can be ignored with enough effort. Then there's the realism of cause and effect, which cannot be ignored easily even in the most ludicrous plotlines - provided you want a coherent story, anyway. The kind of realism that applies here is the latter, unfortunately.

[Bloodseeker]

Originally Posted by SimplyEd

And by saying that, you would have to give an explanation and an overview who Guts of Berserk is, in a spoiler box.
Not everyone knows every character from other anime/manga series after all.

Temporarily drop any series that you're currently following, this one included, and don't go back to them until you've finished watching Berserk. Then when you're done watching, start reading from the beginning. Berserk is awesome, one of the very few anime/manga that I'd consider mandatory viewing/reading for any anime/manga fan, and Guts is my favorite anime/manga character.

[Tempest35]

Hey now, promoting another series instead of this one? Shame!

I personally love Noel and Sophia but I'm not getting all 'mrr' over their untimely passing. From the get-go, we knew that this was a flashback, and as in many good flashbacks, characters contained within are usually not alive in the current timeline.

[SimplyEd]

Originally Posted by Bloodseeker

Temporarily drop any series that you're currently following, this one included, and don't go back to them until you've finished watching Berserk. Then when you're done watching, start reading from the beginning. Berserk is awesome, one of the very few anime/manga that I'd consider mandatory viewing/reading for any anime/manga fan, and Guts is my favorite anime/manga character.

Yes, that is all well and good. I, as a former translator and avid fan of the manga for years now, know about your sentiments towards that masterpiece just fine.

Yet, there are still people out there who don't know jack about it, or those who know about and still don't like it very much.
It can be a very disturbing experience, and that's not suited to everybodies needs.