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DrDX · 2008-08-03, 23:35

Despite an almost fanatical attention to detail, Mr. Shinkai leaves us with a bunch of items which are inconsistent. I’m not sure if these are purposeful or not.

Spoiler for The phone call:

Spoiler for The meeting:

For those who need the fine details of the trip Takaki took to see Akari, I did some research:
Distance from Takaki to Akari: 43 miles north, as the crow flies.
Train distance from Gotojuki to Iwafune: 65 miles, 41 total stops across 4 lines, 109 actual travel minutes (not counting snow delays). The current schedule and pricing (even though this is 2 years later) is quite close to what we saw in the movie!

6. Why didn't Takaki and Akari phone each other when she first moved and then when he moved? It is simple enough to mention your phone number in the letter. Writing letters is fine, but you need to hear the other person's voice. There is an entire realm of emotion which cannot be conveyed in a letter. My guess is that Mr. Shinkai wanted a throwback to the romantic era when love letters were written. But in keeping with “attention to details of real life” this makes entirely no sense. If Akari and Takaki were using the telephone, they would have had more of chance of continuing the relationship.

7. If Takaki was really serious about the relationship, he should have found a way to visit Akari during summer breaks in junior high or high school.
This would entail (prices approximate):
1. A 30 minute local flight from Tanegashima Island to Kagoshima ($142)
2. A 1½ hour flight from Kagoshima to Tokyo ($271)
3. A 2½ hour train journey from Tokyo to Iwafune ($20) (unless Akari rode in to visit).
Travel time from 9:30 until 3:30 – not too bad. Total price around $866 round trip. Ouch!
Alternate route using ferry and train: about $600 round trip and 12 hours of travel.

If it were me, I would convince my parents that a family trip to Tokyo was important and then schedule a day with Akari. But hey, he’s just a kid.

Spoiler for Moving back to Tokyo:

Spoiler for Rendezvous on the tracks?:

We can analyze this to death (essentially everyone already has) but it doesn’t change the outcome. However, the power comes from how we use this story for the betterment of our own lives.

Theowne · 2008-08-04, 10:48

I was underwhelmed. Maybe I was expecting too much, but after hearing all the praise, I was expecting near-Ghibli levels of perfection. But the film left me cold. It certainly didn't affect me as much as "Mimi Wo Sumaseba" or similar Ghibli films.

I suppose my main problem was that it seemed (to me) that it tried to create sadness by simply evoking the mood and atmosphere of sadness, rather than making you learn, feel and care enough about the characters to be saddened by their loss. For example, I felt a bit empty watching Takaki lose his letter, but only because the emotion itself brought something out in me, and not because I felt sorry for Takaki as a character. But I suppose this could be what Shinkai intended to do. I can say, though, that now that I've watched it, I have forgotten about it and the characters as well simply because there is nothing memorable about them that draws me to them. This is unlike, say, Mimi wo Sumaseba or Honey and Clover where even at this moment the imprints the characters left on me is very visible (to me).

The second part of the story did slightly better in this regard because you do become sympathetic to the new character.

The third part, in my opinion, was the worst and effectively ruined the film for me. Again, that's just my opinion, but I thought the music video was intrusive and unnecessary. They introduce a new character and effectively do nothing with her. In my opinion, the entire "act" could have just been whittled down to that single scene where they pass each other near the train tracks, and absolutely nothing would have been lost. I was ready for a bittersweet ending that highlighted the mood of regret and loneliness but I was disappointed.

TinyRedLeaf · 2008-08-04, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theowne

I was underwhelmed. Maybe I was expecting too much, but after hearing all the praise, I was expecting near-Ghibli levels of perfection. But the film left me cold. It certainly didn't affect me as much as "Mimi Wo Sumaseba" or similar Ghibli films.

My first impression after watching 5cm Per Second was mixed. Toki wo Kakeru Shoujo was still fresh in mind, and I felt it had been more entertaining.

But then, over time, something happened. One More Time, One More Chance (I strongly recommend listening to this version of the song — Yamazaki's heartfelt passion is too raw for words; his face says it all) left a powerful impression, and the more I listened to it, the more I became overwhelmed by the bittersweet emotions. Tokikake had been entertaining, yes, but I soon forgot about it. But 5cm continues to draw me today, and each time I watch it, I find something new to appreciate. The lost romance between Takaki and Akari became secondary to my own memories of naive childhoods spent pining for things that could have been sooner left behind.

Those memories gradually increased the empathy I felt for all three characters — Takaki, Akari and Kanae. Like Kanae's older sister, I remember what it's like to be young, and to love so strongly that you think the world would end if you lost that love.

In the end, this is what makes 5cm so much stronger than Tokikake. The movie reminds us of the things we cherish, and the things we've lost. And, in so doing, Takaki, Akari and Kanae's stories become our own. As a work of art, 5cm stands apart from most other anime I've watched, including some Ghibli movies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDX

Mr. Shinkai leaves us with a bunch of items which are inconsistent. I’m not sure if these are purposeful or not.

And like many Japanese works of art, 5cm's flaws are part of what makes it so achingly unique. 5cm is beautiful to me, precisely because it is not perfect. It is a prime example of that peculiar Japanese penchant for transience. Of course, interpretations will differ. If 5cm's flaws truly irritate you, no amount of persuasion on my part will make you see them differently.

Speaking as a copyeditor, I think you're asking for too many unnecessary details. I'm a fan of Hemmingway, and sometimes, I do believe that less is more. The "omissions" you point out are, in my opinion, not worth elaborating in the movie because they would have impeded the narrative flow and turned 5cm into a plodding mess like The Place Promised in Our Early Days. I couldn't care less what Takaki or Akari's parents were thinking (important though it may have been in real life, but I'm watching a movie, not a reality show!). When watching the movie, especially for the first time, I'm interested in whether Takaki and Akari would survive as a couple, and not why their parents were apparently so mean. Such extraneous details are best explored in a novel, but not in a movie — you do not want to outlast your viewers' short attention spans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDX

Spoiler for Moving back to Tokyo:

A valid question, but I think you've missed an important point. Somewhere along the way, both Akari and Takaki realised they were chasing ghosts. Akari realised it sooner than Takaki — many of us in this thread believe that Akari was the first to stop sending letters. But Takaki, in his stubborn, knight-in-shining-armour kind of way, persisted to hold on, even though he must have known inside that their romance was over. After he returned to Tokyo, I suspect he didn't have the courage to meet Akari. Meeting her again, in person, could possibly confirm his suspcion, and end his fantasy for good (but Takaki didn't want it to be over; unfortunately, by the time he realised his mistake, he had already lost the vitality of youth).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDX

Spoiler for Rendezvous on the tracks?:

My answer, from several pages ago.

germanturkey · 2008-08-04, 19:31

i always assumed she called from a payphone because she ran away from home and was upset.

DrDX · 2008-08-20, 00:02

I decided to finish understanding “5 Cm per Second” by watching Shinkai’s first movie, “Voices of a Distant Star”. And there were all the elements I expected, neatly wrapped into 24 minutes: fantastic scenery, the lilting background melodies of Tenmon, trains, space ships, young love, separation and …. Distance! It was like I was watching “5 Cm” recast on a planetary scale and this short movie certainly sets the stage for the two (and hopefully more) features to follow. I highly recommend it to help put “5 Cm” into perspective. And just like in “5 Cm”, the ending is somewhat open ended and a discussion of it could fill pages.

Though I knew this would also be a sad story, I braced for it when I started to watch it and told myself that I couldn’t be that affected inside of 24 minutes. That strategy was unsuccessful and points to the power of Shinkai as a storyteller to produce a feature which reaches the soul.

GLH · 2008-10-30, 05:10

After reading a positive impression of this movie on another forum, I decided to give it a go. Yes, I'm quite late in watching it, and it seems everyone is done discussing it, but there are some thoughts I just want to get out there and maybe get another conversation going!

First of all, before I go into some of my thoughts, let me just say that I loved the movie. Truly excellent work. Shinkai's next project, despite knowing nothing about it yet, has immediately jumped to my most anticipated anime property. Also, before I get to my thoughts, I wanted to address two people individually and some of the things they said:

FuzzyWuzzy - You got hammered on pretty hard, and for good reason!

I just wanted to address two of your thoughts that I found strange. The first was you saying that we watch anime to escape reality. While that does have some truth value, I don't think you can simply dismiss realistic anime due to the fact that it is similar to reality. At the end of the day, I think we all watch anime for the entertainment value it provides. Realistic or not, entertainment is entertainment. The second thing I found strange was your take on open endings. Yes, this movie can probably be considered open, but you seem to be using this opening to say that their is a possibility of a fairy-tale type ending for the main characters that could still happen. First of all, that would go completely against what Shinkai wanted, as detailed in the interview posted earlier in this thread. And secondly, it seems that the only type of closure, by your definition, would be characters dying. Don't forget, if we're going to use our imaginations to give a fairy-tale type ending to a bittersweet show, then we could also use our imaginations to give a happy ending show a sad future. For example, think of one of your favorite shows that concludes happily. What if the next day those characters are killed in a car accident? Yes, I'm being extreme, but sometimes you need to accept what has been provided by the creator of the particular show.

Vexx - You made a point that I don't think anyone else mentioned and it is something that I also noticed. You mentioned that Takaki wasn't necessarily the "nice" guy he was perceived as. This is something that I thought as well and in a way it sort of makes me feel less sorry for him and his circumstances. I'll talk about this more in a bit but I just wanted to credit you for being, I think, the only one who brought this up.

Most everything has already been discussed. So I'm going to give some of my thoughts on the topics that were still a little fuzzy and at the same time provide some of my interpretations:

- The first thing I want to talk about is the connection between Takaki and Akari in the first chapter. One thing I notice in a lot of discussions about this movie is that it is so sad the two don't have their happy ending together. Maybe I'm being a realist, but how often is a first love at 13 really true love? I think if people looked at the show more realistically, as I'm sure Shinkai intended, then the outcome isn't as sad. Everyone seems to talk as if the two of them were soul mates. Allow me to blow your mind for a second. What if Akari was more in love with her fiancé/husband than she ever was with Takaki? Wouldn't it then be more of a tragedy if the two of them stuck together forever and never experimented with other people that they may have been more compatible with? I know anime trains us to think first love is true love, but in real life, dating is a tool to not only learn about ones self but also what sort of people you are compatible with. That way, your future relationships will be better.

- There has been a lot of discussion as to what led Takaki to the lifestyle he was living in the third chapter. Some will say his loss of Akari, some will say his job, and some will say a combination of the two. While I do believe both played a major role in messing him up, I also believe that he isn't as mentally strong as the typical male anime protagonist that everyone is used to. Again, Shinkai trying to be realistic. This is immediately seen beginning in the second chapter. From that point on, he just seems to not be all there and I'm sure it's a sort of depression. Compare his eyes, for example, in chapter 1 vs. chapters 2 & 3. While it is true that losing your first love is tough, 13+ years of agonizing is a little bit extreme, especially for what seems to be an anime trying to be realistic. That is why I believe it is more a flaw of his character then simply someone with a broken heart who can't recover. Yes, that may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but if it was the sole cause then 98% of the world would end up like Takaki considering not many end up with their first love. Finally, to get back to what Vexx mentioned. I think we are given a clue in chapter 1 that proves Takaki's inherent weakness. When Akari calls and lets him know that she is moving he effectively tells her to shut up. Not a nice thing to do, especially from someone who is supposed to be so nice. I realize he is only 13 but I still think it was the beginning signs of character flaws, flaws that make him human, and flaws that keep the tone of the show and setup the ending.

- Throughout this thread I see many people, the ones who hoped for a happy ending between the two, saying that they would have found a way to stay in contact or found a way to meet. I think many forget how powerless they were at 13, especially if they were 13 in the mid-90s like Takaki/Akari. Also, many here were obsessing over who was the person who sent the last letter before contact ceased. I don't think it matters. It was natural for it to cease. People in here seemed to want to blame the person who quit writing. If anything, that person is the normal one, the one able to move on, and if I remember correctly, you guys came to the conclusion that Akari was the one who ended the chain. Good for her I say!

- I want to talk a little about the final train scene. There was a TON of symbolism here. The most obvious, perhaps most discussed, and confirmed in the novel, is Takaki's final smile. We can all agree this is the symbol of him moving on. However, there is a lot more in this scene, of course I could just be reading to much into it. First of all, both characters mentioned that they wanted to watch the cherry blossoms fall together. In a way, they get this wish. They aren't together per se, but they are watching them "together." Next up, does anyone think the two crossing trains represent their lives? The trains (their lives) have gotten in their way (adult Takaki and adult Akari trying to look at each other) and the trains are going in opposite directions just like their lives. Maybe I'm reading too much into that!

Finally, a lot of people discussed why Akari left before the trains had finished passing by. I believe that their is a realistic reason and a symbolic reason. The realistic reason would be that she realized that it could be Takaki she just passed by but what are the odds? She hasn't seen him in around 13 years and people change a lot in that time. I could see her being intrigued to look back but then the train giving her enough time to come to her senses and realize that the odds were low of that being him. Also, maybe she didn't want to be a slave to those past emotions, so she decided to just leave. Symbolically, her leaving early represents that she moved on in life faster/before him. He hung around a little too long or hung onto his feelings a little too long.

- Finally, I want to discuss the mood of the ending. This is probably the most controversial thing, but I want to express my view. The best word to describe it, and many have used it already, is bittersweet. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think we see the term "sad ending" thrown around a little too much. It may not be the fairy-tale ending everyone wanted or the ideal ending, but that doesn't make it a sad ending. Of course, for some, them not connecting is indeed sad, but I look at an ending as the final mood coming from the characters. Akari is happily married and Takaki is happily moving on. If you truly are someone who cares about these characters and you are someone grounded in reality then how could you call it a "sad ending?" It would be like me saying Kanon 2006 had a sad ending since Yuuichi didn't end up with my favorite girl. But back to bittersweet, it really does define the ending. We don't get that dream pairing and thus we are bitter but it is sweet that the characters seem to have a bright future ahead of them. One final point. I noticed a lot of people mentioning the ending coming out of nowhere. However, we're told about half way into chapter 3 that Akari is getting married. At that point, you should have realized the fairy-tale ending wasn't coming. I don't know how anyone can say they were shocked all of a sudden in the last 30 seconds.

Wow, that's a lot of writing. I guess that is a testament to the quality of this ~65 minute movie. It truly is something I will never forget and its bittersweet nature will always be able to provide me with a varied ride.

KholdStare · 2008-10-30, 11:53

@TinyRedLeaf:

I agree with most of what you said except the point where [u]The Place Promised in Our Early Days[/b] was a "plodding mess." Sure 5 cm is "better" in terms of flow and storytelling and Place Promised had some weird scientific aspects to it, but that doesn't mean the latter is a mess. To me personally, I thoroughly enjoyed Place Promised after my first time watching it. Surely I did not understand half of the technical stuff, but the fact that I still enjoyed it very much means that it was not enough to distract me or made it boring. As it turns out I would watch the movie three or four more times, and each time I do, I enjoy it more while learning a bit more about the technical stuff behind it. In this way, the watching experience of Place Promised was very similar to watching Air or ef - a tale of memories, in that you may get the basic grasp of the story but really focus on the details the second time around. In theory Place Promised might be too boring and hard to watch, but the other aspects of it--its beautiful animation, intriguing story, and poetic narration--keep the story going strong.

Right now I place Place Promised and 5 cm as in the same category and rating of anime, but Place Promised will always be one of my personal favorites, and it is currently in my top five with other anime that are victims to excessive nitpicking.

koonac · 2008-11-07, 00:22

The gist of this (excellent) film is to tell its audiences on the bittersweet realities of life and love.
Takaki and Akari ARE still in love with each other. However, this is a love which can never be reciprocated because one of them is getting married, and throughout the years they have lost contact with one another. They moved on with their LIVES, but not their feelings deep inside for one another.

It isn't just as simple to pick up the phone and make the phone call and all will work out. You have to watch this film with your heart, not your head to fully understand it. Sometimes true love isn't about possessing the person, but rather seeing that (s)he is happy in life.

Theowne · 2008-11-07, 00:52

I personally think it's the opposite. If you watch this film with your head, you would enjoy it more focusing only on its excellent direction, slick production and well-written script. But as I mentioned in an earlier post, I believe it comes up short in the "heart" category.

I suppose I am alone in this regard, but I simply did not feel anything for the characters, except perhaps the girl in the second act. The film kept giving me signs that I should really care, be saddened or disappointed, but I wasn't, because I didn't form any sort of connection or attachment to the characters. Unlike, say, Mimi wo Sumaseba, a Ghibli film, where I had become so drawn to the characters as people that I wanted to see them happy at the end. The same just did not happen to me during this film, which felt very well-produced and technically brilliant.

germanturkey · 2008-11-07, 01:22

speaking of which, this novel... has it been translated or released in r1?

koonac · 2008-11-07, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theowne

I personally think it's the opposite. If you watch this film with your head, you would enjoy it more focusing only on its excellent direction, slick production and well-written script. But as I mentioned in an earlier post, I believe it comes up short in the "heart" category.

I was a film student.

Technicalities (cinematography, direction) can only bring a film so far. Stuff like when to do a Dolly shot, Close up, Mid-shot, Pull/Zoom out, Strategic framing is just bread and butter, very textbook. The technical aspect is the BASIC set of skills an artist should be good at to bring out the essence of his art. When I watch a film (anime or not), I expect the technical part to be ALREADY top-notch. Fundamentals an artist SHOULD already be good at isn't worth mentioning, really.

What differentiates films from films is the script and how it evokes/relates the thoughts and emotions of the viewer. 5CPS is rather similar to works of an internationally acclaimed Taiwanese director - Tsai Ming Liang, focusing on the alienation in human emotions. I was also able to relate this anime to the style of Wong Kar-Wai, another internationally acclaimed Hong Kong director who touches on existentialism in love.

5CPS is not a film easily appreciated by the masses. Act 1 & 2 were good as stories on their own, but also served their purpose in explaining the feelings felt by Takaki in the third act why he shouldn't (or rather, couldn't) simply pick up the phone book and give Akari a call (a simple gesture but yet oh so difficult. why so?). What made cinematic gold in this film(anime) isn't the stylized shots nor editing, but rather the director's ability to portray complicated love emotions which are difficult to explain using words through his "technicalities".

No offense but, albeit the good technicalities, Ghibli films are way too predictable. Very hollywood-ish. I bought their box-set awhile back and actually fell asleep watching some of their works because I kinda knew what would happen in the end. Felt like running a race but already knowing the eventual winner.

Tiran86 · 2008-11-07, 02:08

Its been awhile since I've watched this. Why didn't he stay in touch with her? From what I remember he was shown writing up texts and then never sending them. From what I remember, its his fault. Obviously by the third act, it really was too late, but during the second act, he still could have tried.

The movie was great, pretty powerful, and beautifully drawn. Although it doesn't beat the Voices of a distant star manga to me (the anime adaption of Voices was kinda blah. Way too condensed and left out a lot of stuff)

Nikusu · 2008-11-07, 08:51

It wasn't quite all his fault. As the movie suggests, they just gradually stopped talking. The texts look more like something he writes to himself. It's been awhile since you watched the movie (same as myself), but if you watch it again around 39:00 minutes the text is shown. I thought it was so I had to double check. He said "When did I start writing texts, but never sending them?" Later he also said "I wonder when I go into the habit of writing texts to nobody." Something to the like of those quotes.

In the end, it's impossible to make what-ifs on their situation. Obviously if they kept sending mail then there wouldn't have been a movie. The thing that's most powerful about the movie is I'm sure everyone, EVERYONE, has had someone from the past they wanted to keep in touch with, but eventually lost contact. I'm not saying everyone has had some epic romance that fizzled out due to distance, but think of high school or your old job.

Anyway, I'll finish addressing the last post once more. It wasn't all his fault. It's obvious to point out, but as the movie shows, they slowly stopped sending mail to each other. It was a gradual process where other things started to take priority over replying immediately and eventually at all.

Tiran86 · 2008-11-07, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by lv23

It wasn't quite all his fault. As the movie suggests, they just gradually stopped talking. The texts look more like something he writes to himself. It's been awhile since you watched the movie (same as myself), but if you watch it again around 39:00 minutes the text is shown. I thought it was so I had to double check. He said "When did I start writing texts, but never sending them?" Later he also said "I wonder when I go into the habit of writing texts to nobody." Something to the like of those quotes.

In the end, it's impossible to make what-ifs on their situation. Obviously if they kept sending mail then there wouldn't have been a movie. The thing that's most powerful about the movie is I'm sure everyone, EVERYONE, has had someone from the past they wanted to keep in touch with, but eventually lost contact. I'm not saying everyone has had some epic romance that fizzled out due to distance, but think of high school or your old job.

Anyway, I'll finish addressing the last post once more. It wasn't all his fault. It's obvious to point out, but as the movie shows, they slowly stopped sending mail to each other. It was a gradual process where other things started to take priority over replying immediately and eventually at all.

Thanks. Yeah I can relate to that.

Theowne · 2008-11-07, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by koonac

No offense but, albeit the good technicalities, Ghibli films are way too predictable. Very hollywood-ish.

That's ironic, considering how often I've read on the internet of Ghibli being perceived as a sort of anti-Hollywood, anti-Disney production group (in style). But the one thing they have no trouble doing is created very human characters which come to life. And I don't mean the popular titles like "Spirited Away", though they have their charm, but the more intimate and human titles like "Grave of the Fireflies", "Whisper of the Heart", and "Omohide Poroporo".

The problem with 5cm is that the characters felt like blank slates throughout. Except for the girl in the second act, there was very little sense, in my opinion of course, that I was watching real people rather than a well-scripted show. For all the brilliance in technical direction and writing, if this part of a story isn't done well the entire thing falls flat, and that was the problem for me. It isn't always a case of "If you don't like this show then you are part of the uneducated mainstream masses" (again ironic, since I am clearly the minority here). Anyways, that's all I have to say on this subject.

Tiran86 · 2008-11-13, 03:31

Sheesh, I just rewatched it. The ending sequence hits nearly as hard as the episode of Futurama with Fry's dog.

TinyRedLeaf · 2008-11-18, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theowne

The problem with 5cm is that the characters felt like blank slates throughout. Except for the girl in the second act, there was very little sense, in my opinion of course, that I was watching real people rather than a well-scripted show. For all the brilliance in technical direction and writing, if this part of a story isn't done well the entire thing falls flat, and that was the problem for me. It isn't always a case of "If you don't like this show then you are part of the uneducated mainstream masses" (again ironic, since I am clearly the minority here). Anyways, that's all I have to say on this subject.

It takes two to make a successful movie: A skillful storyteller, and an audience who can relate to his message.

As I've said before, 5cm/sec hits a nerve with many viewers because they've experienced similar relationships in the past. The movie is especially heartbreaking for people who know what it's like to endure a long-distance relationship. Speaking for myself, Takaki and Akari reminded me of my younger, more naive, self. As such, I cannot see how they could be the "blank slates" you'd described.

Ironically, if you're using Ghibli movies as examples, it's worth noting that many of Miyazaki's best known movies revolve around fantasy characters that do not resemble real people. The eponymous hero of Porco Rosso, one my favourite Ghibli characters, comes immediately to mind. When was the last time you saw a flying pig?

Basically, the above is my long-winded way of saying, once again, that it's not the film. It's you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KholdStare

@TinyRedLeaf: I agree with most of what you said except the point where The Place Promised in Our Early Days was a "plodding mess." Sure 5 cm is "better" in terms of flow and storytelling and Place Promised had some weird scientific aspects to it, but that doesn't mean the latter is a mess.

I thought about what you wrote. Here's my reply: Firstly, I was so bored and aggravated by the obvious story-telling flaws in Place Promised that I'm not very motivated to watch it again. Therefore, my memory of the movie is very fuzzy. That's not a good way to start a fair critique.

Secondly, Place Promised seemed, in retrospect, to be a full-dress rehearsal for 5cm/sec. Many of the plot points from the earlier movie were rehashed in the subsequent film. That makes it possible to compare the differences between the two, and it's very apparent that Shinkai had learnt from his mistakes in Place Promised. His control over plot and pacing had improved considerably between the two projects.

Of course, critics would dispute that opinion by pointing to Part III, which was, in effect, more an AMV than a proper chapter. I suspect Shinkai had been more inspired by One More Time, One More Chance than he let on. It seems too much a coincidence that the lyrics summed up the plot so well.

So, if I were to hazard a guess, I think Shinkai chose to end 5cm/sec on a highly poetic note. Or, more accurately, he started making the movie with that AMV ending in mind, and planned the other two chapters as extensions of that finale. He took a creative risk, and provoked mixed critical reactions as a result. Personally, I think his gamble worked. An artist who doesn't excite debate isn't much of an artist at all.

Quote:

Surely I did not understand half of the technical stuff, but the fact that I still enjoyed it very much means that it was not enough to distract me or made it boring.

You've said it yourself: The technical stuff was unnecessarily difficult to understand, and distracted from the plot. That's a sign of poor editing and storytelling.

More importantly, it was not really clear what Place Promised was about until around the final third of the movie. That's expecting waaaaaay too much of your audience. Was it supposed to be a doomed love story? Or, was it supposed to be a love triangle? Or perhaps a war story, with mechs? No, how about a coming-of-age story? I couldn't tell — the movie tried too hard to be a bit of everything and ended up being nothing.

In contrast, 5cm/sec was tightly constructed from beginning to end, and revolved powerfully around the main theme of distance, particularly Part I, Oukashou, which was strong enough to stand on its own.

Sure, on close analysis, 5cm/sec is not perfect. But, on the other hand, it clearly shows how Shinkai is improving with each movie he makes. That's very encouraging to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiran86

Its been awhile since I've watched this. Why didn't he stay in touch with her? From what I remember he was shown writing up texts and then never sending them. From what I remember, its his fault. Obviously by the third act, it really was too late, but during the second act, he still could have tried.

As time passed, Takaki gradually made the mistake of placing Akari on a pedestal, thereby increasing his emotional distance from her. It finally got to the point where he doesn't even know what to say to her anymore. That's why, I think, he didn't dare to call her. He was afraid to confirm that they had indeed become strangers, no longer in love.

aliensporebomb · 2008-11-18, 22:35

I loved this even with the flaws.

There were and are lots of resonances with my younger self and the
experiences of Takaki - I bought the DVD when I saw it in the store,
stunned at seeing it and grabbing it almost violently going "MINE!".

There's things my current self would have loved to say to a younger
Takaki but he's learning quite well on his own but like Takaki, it does
sometimes take far longer to disengage from someone you are
attached to that has moved on.

iceyfw · 2008-12-08, 04:24

wow.... the art and animation is absolutely stunning when watching it in 1080p. as others have said, i could tell it was going to be a bittersweet and sad story about the two of them. i've only watched about 15 minutes into it and i already knew it is the type of tale that will make you depressed for days depending on how you take the ending. and the One More Time, One More Chance music video absolutely set the tone for it.

Spoiler for ending:

DonQuigleone · 2009-01-12, 16:10

It seems this is no longer licensed by ADV http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...second-license

Perhaps the license database should be updated and links to subs relinked too?

2008-08-03, 23:35	Link #961
DrDX Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	Despite an almost fanatical attention to detail, Mr. Shinkai leaves us with a bunch of items which are inconsistent. I’m not sure if these are purposeful or not. Spoiler for The phone call: 1. When she learned that she was transferring schools, why did Akari call Takaki on a pay phone? Did she not have a telephone at home? Does it make sense for a 13 year old to wander out at night in Tokyo (she didn’t move to Iwafune yet) to go to a phone booth? Was she trying to hide this relationship from her parents? Did her parents forbid contact with boys? Spoiler for The meeting: 2. What was the plan for the meeting between Takaki and Akari? He planned a return that night and did buy a roundtrip ticket. With trains shutting down by 11:30 PM (I looked it up), Takaki would have to leave Akari by 9:30 at the latest to make all the connections before the trains stopped running. This would only allow a 2½ hour meeting after traveling 2¾ hours (snow delays notwithstanding). And Takaki had no plans for having something to eat. Good thing Akari brought something. I didn't see places to eat in the middle of Iwafune. 3. Two 13 year olds get together and stay the night together and parents are not contacted? I can't fathom that Akari called home and said, "Hey Mom, Takaki was late getting here and the trains stopped running so we’ll bunk down in this old shack under a blanket". Ditto for Takaki. The correct thing to do would have been to contact Akari's parents, and they would put him up in the guest room. Certainly not as romantic, but it makes more sense. It's not unrealistic to think that after this stunt, both Akari and Takaki were grounded for a year! 4. And what about that old shack? With it snowing that heavily, it had to be no warmer than 25 degrees (F) out. Sleeping under an old blanket in a drafty shack would at best be uncomfortable, if not bordering on a brush with hyperthermia. 5. Why did Takaki leave first thing in the morning? His train trip was on Friday evening, meaning that this was Saturday morning. It seems natural that they would enjoy each other's company for part of the day. Or did Takaki have a hot date back in Tokyo? For those who need the fine details of the trip Takaki took to see Akari, I did some research: Distance from Takaki to Akari: 43 miles north, as the crow flies. Train distance from Gotojuki to Iwafune: 65 miles, 41 total stops across 4 lines, 109 actual travel minutes (not counting snow delays). The current schedule and pricing (even though this is 2 years later) is quite close to what we saw in the movie! 6. Why didn't Takaki and Akari phone each other when she first moved and then when he moved? It is simple enough to mention your phone number in the letter. Writing letters is fine, but you need to hear the other person's voice. There is an entire realm of emotion which cannot be conveyed in a letter. My guess is that Mr. Shinkai wanted a throwback to the romantic era when love letters were written. But in keeping with “attention to details of real life” this makes entirely no sense. If Akari and Takaki were using the telephone, they would have had more of chance of continuing the relationship. 7. If Takaki was really serious about the relationship, he should have found a way to visit Akari during summer breaks in junior high or high school. This would entail (prices approximate): 1. A 30 minute local flight from Tanegashima Island to Kagoshima ($142) 2. A 1½ hour flight from Kagoshima to Tokyo ($271) 3. A 2½ hour train journey from Tokyo to Iwafune ($20) (unless Akari rode in to visit). Travel time from 9:30 until 3:30 – not too bad. Total price around $866 round trip. Ouch! Alternate route using ferry and train: about $600 round trip and 12 hours of travel. If it were me, I would convince my parents that a family trip to Tokyo was important and then schedule a day with Akari. But hey, he’s just a kid. Spoiler for Moving back to Tokyo: 8. After graduating high school and moving back to Tokyo, Takaki could have certainly looked up Akari at her parents home, since they stayed in Iwafune, as shown in the movie. The fact that he didn’t know her number is weak at best. When there’s a will, there’s a way! It is really sad that he essentially gave up trying. Spoiler for Rendezvous on the tracks?: 9. After several viewings, I’ve decided that the woman Takaki passes on the tracks is NOT Akari. He imagines it is her, but it is someone else who looks like her from a distance. Why? The lyrics to the closing song, “One More Time, One More Place” provides the hint. Since Mr. Shinkai specifically selected this song, one would have to believe the lyrics: “I always end up looking for your smile to appear somewhere, At the railroad crossing, waiting for the express to pass Even though I know you couldn’t be at such a place.” There are several verses throughout the song which express this same sentiment. And besides, if it really was Akari and she realized it was Takaki, I believe she would have stopped and said hello. When you have the close relationship they had, you simply don’t just close your eyes and walk away. We can analyze this to death (essentially everyone already has) but it doesn’t change the outcome. However, the power comes from how we use this story for the betterment of our own lives.

2008-08-04, 10:48	Link #962
Theowne 耳をすませば Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Age: 34	I was underwhelmed. Maybe I was expecting too much, but after hearing all the praise, I was expecting near-Ghibli levels of perfection. But the film left me cold. It certainly didn't affect me as much as "Mimi Wo Sumaseba" or similar Ghibli films. I suppose my main problem was that it seemed (to me) that it tried to create sadness by simply evoking the mood and atmosphere of sadness, rather than making you learn, feel and care enough about the characters to be saddened by their loss. For example, I felt a bit empty watching Takaki lose his letter, but only because the emotion itself brought something out in me, and not because I felt sorry for Takaki as a character. But I suppose this could be what Shinkai intended to do. I can say, though, that now that I've watched it, I have forgotten about it and the characters as well simply because there is nothing memorable about them that draws me to them. This is unlike, say, Mimi wo Sumaseba or Honey and Clover where even at this moment the imprints the characters left on me is very visible (to me). The second part of the story did slightly better in this regard because you do become sympathetic to the new character. The third part, in my opinion, was the worst and effectively ruined the film for me. Again, that's just my opinion, but I thought the music video was intrusive and unnecessary. They introduce a new character and effectively do nothing with her. In my opinion, the entire "act" could have just been whittled down to that single scene where they pass each other near the train tracks, and absolutely nothing would have been lost. I was ready for a bittersweet ending that highlighted the mood of regret and loneliness but I was disappointed. __________________ My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc. Anime reviews/blog, piano arrangements, Studio Ghibli..

2008-10-30, 11:53	Link #967
KholdStare ISML Technical Staff Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Age: 35	@TinyRedLeaf: I agree with most of what you said except the point where [u]The Place Promised in Our Early Days[/b] was a "plodding mess." Sure 5 cm is "better" in terms of flow and storytelling and Place Promised had some weird scientific aspects to it, but that doesn't mean the latter is a mess. To me personally, I thoroughly enjoyed Place Promised after my first time watching it. Surely I did not understand half of the technical stuff, but the fact that I still enjoyed it very much means that it was not enough to distract me or made it boring. As it turns out I would watch the movie three or four more times, and each time I do, I enjoy it more while learning a bit more about the technical stuff behind it. In this way, the watching experience of Place Promised was very similar to watching Air or ef - a tale of memories, in that you may get the basic grasp of the story but really focus on the details the second time around. In theory Place Promised might be too boring and hard to watch, but the other aspects of it--its beautiful animation, intriguing story, and poetic narration--keep the story going strong. Right now I place Place Promised and 5 cm as in the same category and rating of anime, but Place Promised will always be one of my personal favorites, and it is currently in my top five with other anime that are victims to excessive nitpicking. __________________ Kholdy's MAL, ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki

2008-11-07, 00:52	Link #969
Theowne 耳をすませば Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Age: 34	I personally think it's the opposite. If you watch this film with your head, you would enjoy it more focusing only on its excellent direction, slick production and well-written script. But as I mentioned in an earlier post, I believe it comes up short in the "heart" category. I suppose I am alone in this regard, but I simply did not feel anything for the characters, except perhaps the girl in the second act. The film kept giving me signs that I should really care, be saddened or disappointed, but I wasn't, because I didn't form any sort of connection or attachment to the characters. Unlike, say, Mimi wo Sumaseba, a Ghibli film, where I had become so drawn to the characters as people that I wanted to see them happy at the end. The same just did not happen to me during this film, which felt very well-produced and technically brilliant. __________________ My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc. Anime reviews/blog, piano arrangements, Studio Ghibli..

2008-11-18, 22:35	Link #978
aliensporebomb Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: mpls, mn, usa, urth	An update... I loved this even with the flaws. There were and are lots of resonances with my younger self and the experiences of Takaki - I bought the DVD when I saw it in the store, stunned at seeing it and grabbing it almost violently going "MINE!". There's things my current self would have loved to say to a younger Takaki but he's learning quite well on his own but like Takaki, it does sometimes take far longer to disengage from someone you are attached to that has moved on. __________________ asb web: http://madsound.dyndns.org/

2008-08-04, 19:31	Link #964
germanturkey Udon-YAAAAAAAA Join Date: Jan 2008 Age: 35	i always assumed she called from a payphone because she ran away from home and was upset.

2008-08-20, 00:02	Link #965
DrDX Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	I decided to finish understanding “5 Cm per Second” by watching Shinkai’s first movie, “Voices of a Distant Star”. And there were all the elements I expected, neatly wrapped into 24 minutes: fantastic scenery, the lilting background melodies of Tenmon, trains, space ships, young love, separation and …. Distance! It was like I was watching “5 Cm” recast on a planetary scale and this short movie certainly sets the stage for the two (and hopefully more) features to follow. I highly recommend it to help put “5 Cm” into perspective. And just like in “5 Cm”, the ending is somewhat open ended and a discussion of it could fill pages. Though I knew this would also be a sad story, I braced for it when I started to watch it and told myself that I couldn’t be that affected inside of 24 minutes. That strategy was unsuccessful and points to the power of Shinkai as a storyteller to produce a feature which reaches the soul.

2008-10-30, 05:10	Link #966
GLH Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008	After reading a positive impression of this movie on another forum, I decided to give it a go. Yes, I'm quite late in watching it, and it seems everyone is done discussing it, but there are some thoughts I just want to get out there and maybe get another conversation going! First of all, before I go into some of my thoughts, let me just say that I loved the movie. Truly excellent work. Shinkai's next project, despite knowing nothing about it yet, has immediately jumped to my most anticipated anime property. Also, before I get to my thoughts, I wanted to address two people individually and some of the things they said: FuzzyWuzzy - You got hammered on pretty hard, and for good reason! I just wanted to address two of your thoughts that I found strange. The first was you saying that we watch anime to escape reality. While that does have some truth value, I don't think you can simply dismiss realistic anime due to the fact that it is similar to reality. At the end of the day, I think we all watch anime for the entertainment value it provides. Realistic or not, entertainment is entertainment. The second thing I found strange was your take on open endings. Yes, this movie can probably be considered open, but you seem to be using this opening to say that their is a possibility of a fairy-tale type ending for the main characters that could still happen. First of all, that would go completely against what Shinkai wanted, as detailed in the interview posted earlier in this thread. And secondly, it seems that the only type of closure, by your definition, would be characters dying. Don't forget, if we're going to use our imaginations to give a fairy-tale type ending to a bittersweet show, then we could also use our imaginations to give a happy ending show a sad future. For example, think of one of your favorite shows that concludes happily. What if the next day those characters are killed in a car accident? Yes, I'm being extreme, but sometimes you need to accept what has been provided by the creator of the particular show. Vexx - You made a point that I don't think anyone else mentioned and it is something that I also noticed. You mentioned that Takaki wasn't necessarily the "nice" guy he was perceived as. This is something that I thought as well and in a way it sort of makes me feel less sorry for him and his circumstances. I'll talk about this more in a bit but I just wanted to credit you for being, I think, the only one who brought this up. Most everything has already been discussed. So I'm going to give some of my thoughts on the topics that were still a little fuzzy and at the same time provide some of my interpretations: - The first thing I want to talk about is the connection between Takaki and Akari in the first chapter. One thing I notice in a lot of discussions about this movie is that it is so sad the two don't have their happy ending together. Maybe I'm being a realist, but how often is a first love at 13 really true love? I think if people looked at the show more realistically, as I'm sure Shinkai intended, then the outcome isn't as sad. Everyone seems to talk as if the two of them were soul mates. Allow me to blow your mind for a second. What if Akari was more in love with her fiancé/husband than she ever was with Takaki? Wouldn't it then be more of a tragedy if the two of them stuck together forever and never experimented with other people that they may have been more compatible with? I know anime trains us to think first love is true love, but in real life, dating is a tool to not only learn about ones self but also what sort of people you are compatible with. That way, your future relationships will be better. - There has been a lot of discussion as to what led Takaki to the lifestyle he was living in the third chapter. Some will say his loss of Akari, some will say his job, and some will say a combination of the two. While I do believe both played a major role in messing him up, I also believe that he isn't as mentally strong as the typical male anime protagonist that everyone is used to. Again, Shinkai trying to be realistic. This is immediately seen beginning in the second chapter. From that point on, he just seems to not be all there and I'm sure it's a sort of depression. Compare his eyes, for example, in chapter 1 vs. chapters 2 & 3. While it is true that losing your first love is tough, 13+ years of agonizing is a little bit extreme, especially for what seems to be an anime trying to be realistic. That is why I believe it is more a flaw of his character then simply someone with a broken heart who can't recover. Yes, that may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but if it was the sole cause then 98% of the world would end up like Takaki considering not many end up with their first love. Finally, to get back to what Vexx mentioned. I think we are given a clue in chapter 1 that proves Takaki's inherent weakness. When Akari calls and lets him know that she is moving he effectively tells her to shut up. Not a nice thing to do, especially from someone who is supposed to be so nice. I realize he is only 13 but I still think it was the beginning signs of character flaws, flaws that make him human, and flaws that keep the tone of the show and setup the ending. - Throughout this thread I see many people, the ones who hoped for a happy ending between the two, saying that they would have found a way to stay in contact or found a way to meet. I think many forget how powerless they were at 13, especially if they were 13 in the mid-90s like Takaki/Akari. Also, many here were obsessing over who was the person who sent the last letter before contact ceased. I don't think it matters. It was natural for it to cease. People in here seemed to want to blame the person who quit writing. If anything, that person is the normal one, the one able to move on, and if I remember correctly, you guys came to the conclusion that Akari was the one who ended the chain. Good for her I say! - I want to talk a little about the final train scene. There was a TON of symbolism here. The most obvious, perhaps most discussed, and confirmed in the novel, is Takaki's final smile. We can all agree this is the symbol of him moving on. However, there is a lot more in this scene, of course I could just be reading to much into it. First of all, both characters mentioned that they wanted to watch the cherry blossoms fall together. In a way, they get this wish. They aren't together per se, but they are watching them "together." Next up, does anyone think the two crossing trains represent their lives? The trains (their lives) have gotten in their way (adult Takaki and adult Akari trying to look at each other) and the trains are going in opposite directions just like their lives. Maybe I'm reading too much into that! Finally, a lot of people discussed why Akari left before the trains had finished passing by. I believe that their is a realistic reason and a symbolic reason. The realistic reason would be that she realized that it could be Takaki she just passed by but what are the odds? She hasn't seen him in around 13 years and people change a lot in that time. I could see her being intrigued to look back but then the train giving her enough time to come to her senses and realize that the odds were low of that being him. Also, maybe she didn't want to be a slave to those past emotions, so she decided to just leave. Symbolically, her leaving early represents that she moved on in life faster/before him. He hung around a little too long or hung onto his feelings a little too long. - Finally, I want to discuss the mood of the ending. This is probably the most controversial thing, but I want to express my view. The best word to describe it, and many have used it already, is bittersweet. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think we see the term "sad ending" thrown around a little too much. It may not be the fairy-tale ending everyone wanted or the ideal ending, but that doesn't make it a sad ending. Of course, for some, them not connecting is indeed sad, but I look at an ending as the final mood coming from the characters. Akari is happily married and Takaki is happily moving on. If you truly are someone who cares about these characters and you are someone grounded in reality then how could you call it a "sad ending?" It would be like me saying Kanon 2006 had a sad ending since Yuuichi didn't end up with my favorite girl. But back to bittersweet, it really does define the ending. We don't get that dream pairing and thus we are bitter but it is sweet that the characters seem to have a bright future ahead of them. One final point. I noticed a lot of people mentioning the ending coming out of nowhere. However, we're told about half way into chapter 3 that Akari is getting married. At that point, you should have realized the fairy-tale ending wasn't coming. I don't know how anyone can say they were shocked all of a sudden in the last 30 seconds. Wow, that's a lot of writing. I guess that is a testament to the quality of this ~65 minute movie. It truly is something I will never forget and its bittersweet nature will always be able to provide me with a varied ride.

2008-11-07, 00:22	Link #968
koonac Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008	The gist of this (excellent) film is to tell its audiences on the bittersweet realities of life and love. Takaki and Akari ARE still in love with each other. However, this is a love which can never be reciprocated because one of them is getting married, and throughout the years they have lost contact with one another. They moved on with their LIVES, but not their feelings deep inside for one another. It isn't just as simple to pick up the phone and make the phone call and all will work out. You have to watch this film with your heart, not your head to fully understand it. Sometimes true love isn't about possessing the person, but rather seeing that (s)he is happy in life.

2008-11-07, 01:22	Link #970
germanturkey Udon-YAAAAAAAA Join Date: Jan 2008 Age: 35	speaking of which, this novel... has it been translated or released in r1?

2008-11-07, 02:08	Link #972
Tiran86 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	Its been awhile since I've watched this. Why didn't he stay in touch with her? From what I remember he was shown writing up texts and then never sending them. From what I remember, its his fault. Obviously by the third act, it really was too late, but during the second act, he still could have tried. The movie was great, pretty powerful, and beautifully drawn. Although it doesn't beat the Voices of a distant star manga to me (the anime adaption of Voices was kinda blah. Way too condensed and left out a lot of stuff)

2008-11-07, 08:51	Link #973
Nikusu Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Age: 36	It wasn't quite all his fault. As the movie suggests, they just gradually stopped talking. The texts look more like something he writes to himself. It's been awhile since you watched the movie (same as myself), but if you watch it again around 39:00 minutes the text is shown. I thought it was so I had to double check. He said "When did I start writing texts, but never sending them?" Later he also said "I wonder when I go into the habit of writing texts to nobody." Something to the like of those quotes. In the end, it's impossible to make what-ifs on their situation. Obviously if they kept sending mail then there wouldn't have been a movie. The thing that's most powerful about the movie is I'm sure everyone, EVERYONE, has had someone from the past they wanted to keep in touch with, but eventually lost contact. I'm not saying everyone has had some epic romance that fizzled out due to distance, but think of high school or your old job. Anyway, I'll finish addressing the last post once more. It wasn't all his fault. It's obvious to point out, but as the movie shows, they slowly stopped sending mail to each other. It was a gradual process where other things started to take priority over replying immediately and eventually at all.

2008-11-13, 03:31	Link #976
Tiran86 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	Sheesh, I just rewatched it. The ending sequence hits nearly as hard as the episode of Futurama with Fry's dog.

2008-12-08, 04:24	Link #979
iceyfw Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 35	wow.... the art and animation is absolutely stunning when watching it in 1080p. as others have said, i could tell it was going to be a bittersweet and sad story about the two of them. i've only watched about 15 minutes into it and i already knew it is the type of tale that will make you depressed for days depending on how you take the ending. and the One More Time, One More Chance music video absolutely set the tone for it. Spoiler for ending: edit: wow that is sad... she moved on with her life and he is still somewhat living in the past still. Last edited by iceyfw; 2008-12-08 at 04:56.

2009-01-12, 16:10	Link #980
DonQuigleone Knight Errant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 35	It seems this is no longer licensed by ADV http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...second-license Perhaps the license database should be updated and links to subs relinked too?