AnimeSuki Forums

Dengar · 2012-03-27, 03:13

Whoa, they actually explained the clockmaker's identity. Well ok i can live with that.

I could also feel a little bit of hotblooded hotbloodedness in that final battle, so it's not all bad...

But I really don't feel like defending this series against the haters. I had my fun with it, I'll leave it at that.

Sageblink · 2012-03-27, 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

Whoa, they actually explained the clockmaker's identity. Well ok i can live with that.

I could also feel a little bit of hotblooded hotbloodedness in that final battle, so it's not all bad...

But I really don't feel like defending this series against the haters. I had my fun with it, I'll leave it at that.

That's because you're wise !

I won't blame the serie as a whole (cause I already done that).
To me, the clockmaker's identity felt... random. It does make sense, but it came all of a sudden when I was not expecting it. It's a good point, but I couldn't help myself to think : "seriously ?"

EDIT : actually, the reason he started the hunt is random, not his identity.

The rest was... okay, I guess. Not great, but not that bad.

If there is one, please give us a season where the level actually count.
X-ros (the fusion) was to me a non-sense from the beginning. I want real digivolution !!

Dengar · 2012-03-27, 10:02

That's where I disagree the most. The thing I liked SO MUCH about Xros Wars is that it tossed those silly evolutionary levels out the window.

It's what allows for awesome moments, like Shoutmon deflecting an attack from Lucemon Satan Mode.

It also made Super Evolution something TRULY special. Which, as I mentioned many times before, they got rid of in Xros Hunters.

Sageblink · 2012-03-27, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

Tt also made Super Evolution something TRULY special.

I don't get what's so special about it, everyone can use that.

It just a warp-digivolve after all...

Dengar · 2012-03-27, 10:21

"just a warp-digivolve"

Oh dear lord, where to begin...

You know what, using that term in a universe without evolution levels doesn't even make any sense so I'm not even gonna bother.

And there were only 2 individuals in Xros Wars who could do it, and both of them involved a great deal of character development before they could do it. So "everyone can use that" makes even less sense.

Sageblink · 2012-03-27, 10:37

Sorry ! I didn't mean to upset you.
I probably missed something...

When you're talking about super evolution, you were refering to OmegaShoutmon and ZeekGreymon ?
Cause to me, the evolution in hunter is the same, that's why I'm saying that everyone can use it.

Gundamx · 2012-03-27, 13:49

Don't you just love how Matt only for Omegamon and than vanish?
(Yeah I'm Taich fan.)

And is it me or did the anime just make fun of Masaru for not having google?

Spoiler for pic:

At least he solo few mega level digimon

.

Neki Ecko · 2012-03-27, 14:04

Yeah, I have to harp on what most of the ppl say on here, that this series is the weakest one in the whole series (Frontier is happy because they got knock up from the bottom spot), but I was curious if Tamers writing staff ever did anything after Tamers?

Dengar · 2012-03-27, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sageblink

Cause to me, the evolution in hunter is the same, that's why I'm saying that everyone can use it.

^ Oh that.

That has been my main beef with the series from the beginning. Something that was so awesome is now suddenly something everything and their mother can do.

But I blame it on Xros Hunters' writer, who obviously did not understand where Xros Wars' original writer was going with that whole Super Evolution thing.

Super Evolution is not supposed to power-up a digimon to their "next level", it's supposed to "fast-forward" them to the form they will have hundreds of years from now.

Sageblink · 2012-03-27, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

Yeah, I have to harp on what most of the ppl say on here, that this series is the weakest one in the whole series (Frontier is happy because they got knock up from the bottom spot), but I was curious if Tamers writing staff ever did anything after Tamers?

I liked Frontier...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

^ Oh that.

That has been my main beef with the series from the beginning. Something that was so awesome is now suddenly something everything and their mother can do.

I didn't pay enough attention to your post. After reading it once again, I missed the fact you were talking about the evolution in X-ros War.
My apologies ! But we do agree on that point.

Guido · 2012-03-27, 21:07

The ending was plainly bleh and flat to me, and I would have liked it had the writers put up the conclusion in an ambiguous note like, for example, the ending of Digimon Tamers.

Spoiler:

Second, for this final battle they pulled out a unique scenario a la End of Evangelion to signal to the kids watching this show that Tagiru became the super-Star of the season surpassing Taiki

Spoiler:

Also, what happened to the comrades and friends of the previous five heroes?
I mean they either appeared to provide a helping hand or made cameo appearances in the previous episode to help against the Quartzmon's invasion in the Xros War's universe but dissappeared like smoke in this final one.

I'm impressionable guy and had fun with the last episode, but one episode or even a finalé can redeem an entire series of redundant tropes and episodic content showing signs of not progressing towards a definite direction.

What piqued my interest were that Quartzmon in both design, appearance, and attack is one hell gross of a Digimon or digital entity. What it did to everyone by turning them to data and using their data as parts of its body was a doomsday nightmare for me to watch.
Quartzmon easily topples the D-Reaper and puts itself on par with Apocalymon as not only hideous, but a freaking God-like entity of pure destruction.

The other plot that was given conclusion and caught my attention was through Taiki finding out the identity of the clock-maker, old man.

Spoiler:

I hope that I don't end up being the last person posting before the frenzy has quiet down.

Dengar · 2012-03-28, 07:52

Spoiler for Bugramon's identity:

Kurosu · 2012-03-30, 09:31

Actually I'm going to go back on a little of what I said, I don't dislike Hunters entirely. I really liked the insert music.
Since the existence of this season gave birth to the insert music they used, I can say it pretty well justifies having been made.

wisteria233 · 2012-04-01, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

^ Oh that.

That has been my main beef with the series from the beginning. Something that was so awesome is now suddenly something everything and their mother can do.

But I blame it on Xros Hunters' writer, who obviously did not understand where Xros Wars' original writer was going with that whole Super Evolution thing.

Super Evolution is not supposed to power-up a digimon to their "next level", it's supposed to "fast-forward" them to the form they will have hundreds of years from now.

Actually Xros Wars 2 Long title is considered a part of the Xros Wars season (not a separate sequel like 02) and was written by the same person who wrote Xros Wars. Its said that the writer was surprised that they were even getting a second season. So its more a case of the writer themselves not really understanding Super Evolution or their own system.

The manga was written by a different person however, since its story is of a much higher quality maybe it was for the best.

Thing about Digimon levels is that they're not only power levels they basically also broadcast the age of the digimon, so it actually made it easier for writers to figure out, what digimon was stronger than what, based on level, unless they're an anomaly like Lucemon.

Dengar · 2012-04-03, 04:05

Whereas in the Xros universe, a digimon's strength is based on its experience and talent. I just like this idea better, especially since it meant seeing the members of Xros Heart get some fighting time outside of their Xros forms.

This is strange. You are correct that the writers are the same all around. So why the sudden art shift and changing of the mechanics and turning Super Evolution into well... Normal evolution, which is actually now inferior to DigiXros? O_o

Diveman · 2012-04-03, 10:56

I hope we are getting a new Digimon series this or next year, and hopefully with a new concept and a better plot.

wisteria233 · 2012-04-03, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

Whereas in the Xros universe, a digimon's strength is based on its experience and talent. I just like this idea better, especially since it meant seeing the members of Xros Heart get some fighting time outside of their Xros forms.

This is strange. You are correct that the writers are the same all around. So why the sudden art shift and changing of the mechanics and turning Super Evolution into well... Normal evolution, which is actually now inferior to DigiXros? O_o

Actually that's a general franchise rule, that has been in existence before Xros Wars even started abusing it. Yes, a lower evolution level digimon that is just generally stronger than average, due to experience, this was true in V-Tamers, Tamers, Savers and several other digimon manga. But if they come across a digimon that is just of a higher level and has the experience to back it up, so no amount of strategy helps then the lower level has no choice but to evolve themselves. But remember that evolution level tends to signify "age" more so than anything else.

The biggest example of this is actually V-Tamer where Taichi and his partner Zero would actually win battles against higher level digimon due to smart strategy. However, when Zero and Taichi were truly beaten by a digimon that not only was of a higher evolution level, but had more experience, that was when they decided that Zero needed to evolve.

But the way how Xros Wars did it didn't even take into the type of digimon into account they were using or even its individual abilities, which resulted in them seriously nerfing a lot of the digimon that they put Shoutmon up against for the sake having the protagonist win all the time . Which is why hardcore digimon fans can't stand the way how Xros Wars handles the digimon system.

Actually normal evolution isn't inferior at all, but rather all the evolved digimon in Xros Wars were nerfed for that season. I mean it look up some of the digimon that Shoutmon went up against on Wikimon (not wikia because they have a habit of just being wrong), they should have been a heck of a lot stronger than how they appeared. Also Zeed Milleniummon is a normal evolutionary digimon and Shoutmon X7 still wouldn't be able to defeat him.

It wouldn't surprise me though if they abandon DigiXros all together after this.

Dengar · 2012-04-04, 08:10

My point being, there is a point in the majority of Digimon universes where a Digimon will HAVE to evolve in order to win, and will never win unless they figure out a way to evolve.

I just prefer the system in Xros Wars where your guys can still kick some ass without having to evolve or DigiXros.

I never said (or meant to say) that evolution in the OTHER series is inferior to DigiXros. It's more or less the same thing actually. In Xros Wars, Super Evolution was like this big huge power boost over DigiXros. Whereas in Xros Hunters, all of this was inverted. For example, OmegaShoutmon could beat Tactimon, which earlier on required a (struggling) X5. Later on, Super Evolution became more awesome with Shoutmon DX. Whereas in Hunters it's pretty clear that X4 is apparently MUCH stronger than Arresterdramon. It just doesn't click with me.

What I'm saying is, the great power gap between an unevolved digimon and an evolved digimon suddenly became almost negligible inbetween seasons.

Gundamx · 2012-04-04, 14:38

If my memory is right same thing happen in digimon 01

First time they fought champion level they needed Greymon to win(Yeah only Taichi give food to Agumon) but second time they ace it with 4~ rookie level.
Which let them learn that they can't defeat the 4 mega digimon with just mega level but they need experiences too.

(Or something since it been age since last time i saw it...)

Dengar · 2012-04-04, 17:52

Yeah but it's much more pronounced in Xros Wars. Like the time when Shoutmon saved Greymon and MailBirdramon all by himself.

2012-03-27, 13:49	Link #427
Gundamx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	Don't you just love how Matt only for Omegamon and than vanish? (Yeah I'm Taich fan.) And is it me or did the anime just make fun of Masaru for not having google? Spoiler for pic: At least he solo few mega level digimon.

2012-03-27, 14:04	Link #428
Neki Ecko Dancing with the Sky Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Everett, Washington Age: 44	Yeah, I have to harp on what most of the ppl say on here, that this series is the weakest one in the whole series (Frontier is happy because they got knock up from the bottom spot), but I was curious if Tamers writing staff ever did anything after Tamers? __________________

2012-03-27, 21:07	Link #431
Guido Snobby Gentleman Join Date: May 2004 Location: Monterrey, México Age: 43	Episode 79: Burn UP, Tagiru! The Digimon Hunt of Glory! The ending was plainly bleh and flat to me, and I would have liked it had the writers put up the conclusion in an ambiguous note like, for example, the ending of Digimon Tamers. Spoiler: Tagiru but nobody else catches a glimpse of a blurred shadow and realizes to himself that the hunt on, but leaving the whole scene to the viewer's interpretation. Second, for this final battle they pulled out a unique scenario a la End of Evangelion to signal to the kids watching this show that Tagiru became the super-Star of the season surpassing Taiki Spoiler: C'mon! I mean in the final battles from the previous Digimon seasons, including the first Xros Wars season, all the team members duked it out against the final Big Bad Digimon. However, only both Tagiru and Arresterdramon were the only living beings left in the entire planet after Quartzmon turned it into pure data. They created a cheap scenario where both Tagiru and Quartzmon ventured all solo for the last hunt for the writers to justify Tagiru's shining moment of glory before the audience, even if he had with him the power of all heroes. Also, what happened to the comrades and friends of the previous five heroes? I mean they either appeared to provide a helping hand or made cameo appearances in the previous episode to help against the Quartzmon's invasion in the Xros War's universe but dissappeared like smoke in this final one. I'm impressionable guy and had fun with the last episode, but one episode or even a finalé can redeem an entire series of redundant tropes and episodic content showing signs of not progressing towards a definite direction. What piqued my interest were that Quartzmon in both design, appearance, and attack is one hell gross of a Digimon or digital entity. What it did to everyone by turning them to data and using their data as parts of its body was a doomsday nightmare for me to watch. Quartzmon easily topples the D-Reaper and puts itself on par with Apocalymon as not only hideous, but a freaking God-like entity of pure destruction. The other plot that was given conclusion and caught my attention was through Taiki finding out the identity of the clock-maker, old man. Spoiler: And, Taiki realizes and is hinted at that the clock-maker is, in fact, Baguramon in human form. Has to be Baguramon, because if you recalled the end of the previous Xros War's season, Shoutmon X7 refused to absorb Baguramon's data, and instead hope that they'll meet again but with him being a nice guy next time around. Also, when the camera's pans a close shot on the old man's eyes I got to see his right eye radiating a crimson-ruby glow, even if it was concealed by his glasses, and that eye glow is Baguramon's trademark feature. Not to mention at one point his voice sounded exactly like Baguramon's. Taiki's realization about Baguramon's true identity also sheds and solves another mystery left over from the previous season, also implying that Baguramon was and still is the maker of the Xros Loaders, after all. Not a big surprise to cause a racket but puts me in peace finding out. And, from the old man's last comment to the boys, it looks like that DarkKnightmon got revived, as well, and the old man is looking for him. Given the following dialogue line, "I'm just your regular old clock store owner until! Until the day I run into my younger brother somewhere in the world." I liked the implication from the old man's dialogue, that he being Baguramon may have turned into a nice guy or possibly an anti-hero of sorts to try saving world, if only to get a chance to do battle with Taiki and Shoutmon in the future, but that last line is a personal speculation. I hope that I don't end up being the last person posting before the frenzy has quiet down.

2012-03-28, 07:52	Link #432
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Spoiler for Bugramon's identity: Uhh, most of that is right, but the X-Loader was originally created by SkullKnightmon and given to Yu, which was later passed to Nene. Bugramon DID create Kiriha's X-Loader. Meanwhile, Taiki's X-Loader was created by Omegamon, who apparently managed to gain knowledge of it somehow. Either way, the original concept of the X-Loader was developed by SkullKnightmon. Last edited by Dengar; 2012-03-31 at 12:00.

2012-03-27, 03:13	Link #421
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Whoa, they actually explained the clockmaker's identity. Well ok i can live with that. I could also feel a little bit of hotblooded hotbloodedness in that final battle, so it's not all bad... But I really don't feel like defending this series against the haters. I had my fun with it, I'll leave it at that.

2012-03-27, 10:02	Link #423
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	That's where I disagree the most. The thing I liked SO MUCH about Xros Wars is that it tossed those silly evolutionary levels out the window. It's what allows for awesome moments, like Shoutmon deflecting an attack from Lucemon Satan Mode. It also made Super Evolution something TRULY special. Which, as I mentioned many times before, they got rid of in Xros Hunters.

2012-03-27, 10:21	Link #425
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	"just a warp-digivolve" Oh dear lord, where to begin... You know what, using that term in a universe without evolution levels doesn't even make any sense so I'm not even gonna bother. And there were only 2 individuals in Xros Wars who could do it, and both of them involved a great deal of character development before they could do it. So "everyone can use that" makes even less sense.

2012-03-27, 10:37	Link #426
Sageblink Speculation is wrong. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Paris	Sorry ! I didn't mean to upset you. I probably missed something... When you're talking about super evolution, you were refering to OmegaShoutmon and ZeekGreymon ? Cause to me, the evolution in hunter is the same, that's why I'm saying that everyone can use it.

2012-03-30, 09:31	Link #433
Kurosu KORA!! Scanlator Join Date: May 2009 Age: 32	Actually I'm going to go back on a little of what I said, I don't dislike Hunters entirely. I really liked the insert music. Since the existence of this season gave birth to the insert music they used, I can say it pretty well justifies having been made.

2012-04-03, 04:05	Link #435
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Whereas in the Xros universe, a digimon's strength is based on its experience and talent. I just like this idea better, especially since it meant seeing the members of Xros Heart get some fighting time outside of their Xros forms. This is strange. You are correct that the writers are the same all around. So why the sudden art shift and changing of the mechanics and turning Super Evolution into well... Normal evolution, which is actually now inferior to DigiXros? O_o

2012-04-03, 10:56	Link #436
Diveman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	I hope we are getting a new Digimon series this or next year, and hopefully with a new concept and a better plot.

2012-04-04, 08:10	Link #438
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	My point being, there is a point in the majority of Digimon universes where a Digimon will HAVE to evolve in order to win, and will never win unless they figure out a way to evolve. I just prefer the system in Xros Wars where your guys can still kick some ass without having to evolve or DigiXros. I never said (or meant to say) that evolution in the OTHER series is inferior to DigiXros. It's more or less the same thing actually. In Xros Wars, Super Evolution was like this big huge power boost over DigiXros. Whereas in Xros Hunters, all of this was inverted. For example, OmegaShoutmon could beat Tactimon, which earlier on required a (struggling) X5. Later on, Super Evolution became more awesome with Shoutmon DX. Whereas in Hunters it's pretty clear that X4 is apparently MUCH stronger than Arresterdramon. It just doesn't click with me. What I'm saying is, the great power gap between an unevolved digimon and an evolved digimon suddenly became almost negligible inbetween seasons.

2012-04-04, 14:38	Link #439
Gundamx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	If my memory is right same thing happen in digimon 01 First time they fought champion level they needed Greymon to win(Yeah only Taichi give food to Agumon) but second time they ace it with 4~ rookie level. Which let them learn that they can't defeat the 4 mega digimon with just mega level but they need experiences too. (Or something since it been age since last time i saw it...)

2012-04-04, 17:52	Link #440
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Yeah but it's much more pronounced in Xros Wars. Like the time when Shoutmon saved Greymon and MailBirdramon all by himself.