Character Discussion - Lelouch

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

We talking about the same girl here? Nunale, who worries about everyone and her entire family, who's been the perfect chaste princess for the knightly love of Suzaku and her brother? Nunale, who simply wants to be with her brother? If Nunale knew that Lelouch forced Euphie to massacre the Elevens wholesale, that Lelouch had murdered family members totally uninvolved in their Mother's death, and had betrayed friends and allies alike in her name, "support" would be about the farthest thing from her character type. Forgiveness she might manage, but support would run contrary to her entire character type.

Lelouch has gone on crusade to rescue her and be with her again. Her complete forgetting of him would instantly make years of labor, bloody sacrafices, and dives into ever deeper darkness all for naught. Everything has been about protecting, avenging, and creating a future for his sister.

Outside of a parody, I doubt it. She's been too-far established as a maiden princess by this point, always needing her night(s) in armor to save her.

Oh well, you'll see soon enough I think. Evil is blind and comes in wheel chairs I tell you!!

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Oh well, you'll see soon enough I think. Evil is blind and comes in wheel chairs I tell you!!

Okay I agree, she'll probably be on the more evil side when she returns, but She's definetly not gonna be the ultimate evil like Krimzon is making her out to be.

Dean just ignore Krimzons rants about Evil Nunnaly, although Nunnaly will probably be evil, and Moraly questionable like Lelouch, when se returns, she's not gonna be as evil as Krimzon describes her, Krimzons just paranoid.

[KrimzonStriker]

She's EEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLL I say!!!!!!

[Dean_the_Young]

Very well, I will proceed to completely ignore Krimzon's opinion on any subject I don't already agree with him on.

(Go Suzaku!)

[KrimzonStriker]

EEEEEEEEVVVVVVVIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLL!!!!!! *cough* die Suzaku die *cough*

[Dean_the_Young]

Actually, though this was more in the beginning/body of Season 1 until both characters passed their points of no return, I find Suzaku and Lelouch to be remarkably similar, and I believe the Director tried to pound that in a number of times. Every scene in which Lelouch and Suzaku are finishing eachother's sentences in describing their hopes and aspirations, the extent that their aspirations are the same and the flaws they see in the world, and how they have (ham-handidly at times) been portrayed as perfect complements of eachother. Their means and methods may differ (and really is the main difference that drives them apart), but both want to change the world for what they see as the better. It's a bit like the foreign proverb of two seeds from the same plant that, when planted in the same soil together, grow in entirely different ways.

[Masterkeyes2]

Dean: In reply to your question on how the lose of 11 will hit the empire...

That place is a HUGE bargaining chip, with it Lelouch has control of 70 precernt of Sakurdaite. He can use that to bend other nations, not just the superpowers but the smaller ones, to his will. Plus there is consideration of any military equipment left behind along with any research data.

[KrimzonStriker]

Not going to happen, we're going International folks, say bye bye to good old Japan and say hello to the rest of the world. About time too

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Masterkeyes2

Dean: In reply to your question on how the lose of 11 will hit the empire...

That place is a HUGE bargaining chip, with it Lelouch has control of 70 precernt of Sakurdaite. He can use that to bend other nations, not just the superpowers but the smaller ones, to his will. Plus there is consideration of any military equipment left behind along with any research data.

Which are more or less minor details to one small fact: all the Sakurdaite in the world won't allow the United States of Japan to feed itself if the sea-lanes aren't open, let alone invade China (nearby) or Britannia (other side of Pacific). 70% of the world's Sakurdaite won't nullify the sources Britannia had before Japan, and the Japanese underground has already been deploying frames on par with the Seventh generation Lancelot. Technologically, Japan's underground (and, by extension, its backers) already have joined the Nightmare Revolution. And so long as Japan is dependant on China or Britania to allow Sakurdaite shipments through, it can never claim to control its own affairs, let alone the world.

Controlling a sought-after resource =/= being able to invade and occupy a superpower from across the sea. Japan doesn't have the population, let alone the infrastructure, to manage it.

And that's not even considering the possibility of the Britanian Pacific Fleet, say, annihalating any and all mining attempts of Sakurdaite with airstrikes. Just because Britannia can't have it doesn't mean that others will.

[Jestersage]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Which are more or less minor details to one small fact: all the Sakurdaite in the world won't allow the United States of Japan to feed itself if the sea-lanes aren't open, let alone invade China (nearby) or Britannia (other side of Pacific). 70% of the world's Sakurdaite won't nullify the sources Britannia had before Japan, and the Japanese underground has already been deploying frames on par with the Seventh generation Lancelot. Technologically, Japan's underground (and, by extension, its backers) already have joined the Nightmare Revolution. And so long as Japan is dependant on China or Britania to allow Sakurdaite shipments through, it can never claim to control its own affairs, let alone the world.

Controlling a sought-after resource =/= being able to invade and occupy a superpower from across the sea. Japan doesn't have the population, let alone the infrastructure, to manage it.

And that's not even considering the possibility of the Britanian Pacific Fleet, say, annihalating any and all mining attempts of Sakurdaite with airstrikes. Just because Britannia can't have it doesn't mean that others will.

Therefore Japan/OOBK cannot use "conventional" warfare, but utilize superior tactics and speed in a surprise attack. AKA whatever Lelocuh thought up in ep6.

[Dean_the_Young]

I'd love to see what a speed and surprise attack over the Pacific Ocean would look like, in an era of electronic and satellite warfare.

In California
Brit officer 1: My god, a huge invasion force has left Japan and is sailing East!
Brit officer 2: Oh, I'm sure it's nothing to worry about... tell those officers at the Sandwich Isles to line up all the nighmares in nice, even, rows in the open so as to protect against sabatoge...

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

line up all the nighmares in nice, even, rows

Whoever came up with that idea is the best Tactitian ever

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Given how easily the Britannians are to fall into traps I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

Good lord the Britannians are like the Chinese in Command and Conquer Generals (Where they always send in a large force but then falls into an ambush that wipes out like 90% of their forces).

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by DeotoxSlayer

Whoever came up with that idea is the best Tactitian ever

Husband Kimmel, though to be fair much information that could have warrented combat-perparations was never sent to him.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Given how easily the Britannians are to fall into traps I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

Good lord the Britannians are like the Chinese in Command and Conquer Generals (Where they always send in a large force but then falls into an ambush that wipes out like 90% of their forces).

No no no!

Clearly Lulu would set off the volcano that protects/powers the island's impenatrable fortress, and as lava sweeps down and engulfs hundreds of Knightmares the United States of Japan will rush onto the islands in a grand humanitarian gesture, protecting all the new citizens of Japan's forward base (because, as well all know, the United States does not discriminate on basis of gender, religion, or ethnicity).

[Dann of Thursday]

Regarding what Lelouch plans to do, they said we would find out his exact plans with everything. Japan is really more of a start off point for him that also happens to be the main source of all Sakuradite. From there, he may move into liberating the other Areas while also gaining the EU and China as allies. Of course, the more important question is what he plans on doing after Britannia is defeated which is really anyone's guess.

And I'm not sure how similar Lelouch and Suzaku are. Taniguchi has made a point for sure of demonstrating that they have different ideas of doing things. In the end, I am sure both want a peaceful world of some sort though.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

And I'm not sure how similar Lelouch and Suzaku are. Taniguchi has made a point for sure of demonstrating that they have different ideas of doing things. In the end, I am sure both want a peaceful world of some sort though.

Oh, and they do. And they have similar base reasons (Britannia ruined their lives), as the White and Black Knight respectively they both desire to keep the Princess (Nanelly) safe, and the first half-dozen episodes took great and obvious pains to try and drive in the point that the two are exceptionally similar: when C.C., Euphie, Lulu, and Suzaku can have an identical conversation in which they describe their motivations to the extent that they're finishing eachother's sentances from across a city, it's a big sign that says "Hey! These guys are so similar, they should be on the same side!" It's not for nothing that both of them want to fight in an Army in order to win the war quickly to save as many (or lose as few) lives as possible.

How they go about it, though, is where the differences lie. It's more than just means versus ends: to the end of R1 Lulu works to keep the Student Council safe and prioritizes his sister despite his professed hardening of heart, while Suzaku is still tricked by Zero's bluff hostage taking in their last Knighmare fight. Lulu goes about it in a manner that would befit a Britanian prince: he moves his pawns, sacraficing when needed, and dares to command because he exemplifies excelence and cold-bloodedness at the same time. Suzaku goes about it in an American (or, in the CG universe, an United States of Japan) manner: that race should not matter, and that by hard work he can succede. It's yet another one of the ironies that makes Code Geass such a great comedy.

There's also the facet of how both of them change by the end of the (first) series, but that's a different subject.

[Sol Falling]

comedy? Man...

I watched Code Geass from the beginning (on its own merits, that is; I didn't really have any idea who Taniguchi was and didn't have a lot of experience with Sunrise or Clamp either), so popular opinion about Lelouch's character never had the chance to colour my perceptions. I'm not sure what exactly has been the 'hype' you've heard, but I can tell you I never considered Lelouch a 'vaunted genius' from the start. It seemed pretty clear, from his genetics (i.e. Cornelia, Schniezel) and his upbringing (Britannian royalty, posh private school) that Lelouch's capabilities were nothing truly extraordinary, in either Code Geass' universe or (at least those aspects of him which could be realistically applied to) our own.

I will admit, as well, that I found Lelouch's motivations and aspirations a bit difficult to empathize with in the beginning. Still, though, what's there isn't something to ridicule (I presume that's what you mean by comedy. If you're talking about Code Geass's more light-hearted scenes and fanservice-y humour...well, it's there, but I'd have to look at you funny if that's what you thought made the show exceptional.).

What's there to empathise with in Lelouch (at least for me) isn't his successes, it's his losses. As a person who more often than not makes his own bed/digs his own grave, Lelouch's tendency to see himself as something beyond what he is makes him deeply human. The way he struggles with the consequences of his actions are moments of revelation, where he (or maybe just I in his place, iunno really) grasps the true scope of humanity and reality in a way that breaks the feeble little constructions of his mind, makes meaningless his convictions. That's why, even if I'm not particularly enamoured with Lelouch as a person and even consider other characters in the show more likeable (agreed, go Suzaku!), Code Geass is still Lelouch's story, to me. That's also why I can respect the show and feel wronged when it's called a comedy.

[KrimzonStriker]

Him kicking lots of ass is pretty cool too

[vspirit]

I've been meaning to ask, KrimzonStriker, that icon of yours...is it actually two characters? Cos the second one looks like strikingly like that vampire d00d from Vampire Knight. Or is all Lelouch and the two just look that similar?