(L) Kenpufer (Kämpfer)

[IronWarrior]

Ah that is a shame, even through I know you can't always have direct word to word translations, I would prefer as close as they can get it, guess it can't be helped.

So far, I only kinda learned a few Japanese words, just few of the most common, thank you, hello, good morning, idiot, words that often repeated over and over, lol :P

[matterra]

I'm a lurker, but I just can't resist saying something in response (especially since I haven't yet seen any reply). My apologies beforehand if I've done something wrong since I'm not used to posting in forums and usually just post my reactions to my blog.

Spoiler for My not so positive thoughts on arguments on Shizuku:

Originally Posted by Mentar

Why would she have to spill her knowledge unasked? Neither Natsuru nor Akane have even bothered to ask her for more information. If they're really interested, they could - and should. Instead, we have one transforming airhead auto-gushing over Kaede most of the time, with a few minutes of lucid thought after a fight, before he reverts to his usual self. We have one shy-yet-protective girl who slowly grasps that her prince charming doesn't have her on his radar at all, all hopes and fantasies notwithstanding. And who turns into an enjoyable, but uncontrollable loose cannon in a fighter form. I'll reserve judgment on Mikoto until we've seen more of her. And we have Kaede who is one-track-minded after Natsuru female.

Compared to this Kindergarten, Shizuku is a welcome breath of maturity and rationality to me.

I'll give that Akane never even seems interested in getting any information from Shizuku (in either form: her Kampfer form would just shoot first before even knowing the full situation, and her normal form is kind of in awe (if not outright intimidated) to be coherent enough to even attempt to ask Shizuku questions). But Natsuru does ask what Shizuku intends to do. More than once (I'm being conservative), it seems, and not just a few minutes after a fight either. However, Shizuku always brushes him off and/or distracts him (as someone said elsewhere in this thread--might even be you). Natsuru isn't a pushy (or particularly assertive) person (yeah, it's a weakness, but it's who he is), so he backs off. And true, he has a rather one-tracked mind regarding Kaede, but that still doesn't change the fact that Shizuku uses that to her own advantage while barely giving him any info in return. (While I don't agree with her method, I'm not going to debate about it. It's how she operates and part of who she is.) As for Mikoto? Already asks more questions than Akane did. And even manages to get a real answer. (It probably helps that Mikoto is supposedly on Shizuku's side. Shizuku never even told Akane and Natsuru that she would not fight them for the time being--they still thought she would attack them back in some episode after 2.) And Kaede, that one-tracked mind girl (even more so than Natsuru) would care nothing for Kampfer business at this point.

Spoiler for speculation on Kaede:

I think Kaede is the one who has to confess her involvement, with her stuff animals turning people into Kampfers and all, but it's still my speculation, and I avoid spoilers if I can.

Part of the problem I have in general, which maybe only for me, is that your arguments seem a little too favorably biased (and pretty much dismissing other characters other than Akane). Which is understandable, given that I believe Shizuku is your favorite character, but somehow kind of works against making me see her appeal. I mean, if I ever talk about my favorite character (not that I plan to, so I admire your willingness to open yourself to hearing not so flattering things (warranted or not) of your favorite character), I'll probably list his/her faults more than his/her good points, actually. It might be hard to believe, but I actually didn't have any particular trouble with her (to be honest, she even seemed a little amusing at times) while I was watching, but now your arguments (and not so much of those you argue against) make me realize plenty of her faults and leave me pretty much unconvinced of her good side.*

*Does she even have any? Other than being calm and not freaking out over every single little thing, that is? (I don't find that kind of traits super amazing or anything (it's not like I haven't seen characters like her before either), but that's me being subjective, so.) Even you seem to just give excuses for her. For instance, why would she have to tell them anything since no one basically cares enough to ask? While that is true to some extent, it doesn't change the fact that Shizuku is not being particularly nice to everyone (not even to Kaede, actually) by excluding/dismissing them. And I actually don't mind that. Shizuku is who she is; I don't think she can (or even knows how to) act in any other manner (to be more accommodating, for instance). In short, I'd prefer an acknowledgment of her flaw(s) without also bringing up other characters' stupidity/incompetency/ignorance (well I'll admit they are stupid/incompetent/ignorant, but I also agree with Natsuru (in anime, I don't know if he ever said something similar in manga or novel): Shizuku will rig the results to her liking no matter what other characters say or do. I feel not anyone of the existing cast is yet good enough to be a serious foil for her). I'm pretty much fine with people liking a character while not excusing/brushing aside his/her faults.

With all that said, I really don't expect (or even want) Shizuku to change; if she is ever stripped of her edges/power, she'll be the same as (or even worse* than) the rest of the cast.

*Shizuku would most likely have nothing left (or at least nothing that makes her "a welcome breath of maturity and rationality") if not for her take charge attitude. So yeah, Shizuku, go right ahead and steamroll over Natsuru and the rest of the cast and don't ever be considerate (enough) of their feelings. It's the only way she's going to have a chance of making any lasting impression on me.

(Yeah, I'm being cynical. Personally, I've never found any character to be a breath of fresh air or some such (even compared to his/her own cast mates). Not even the characters I like. Perhaps with a very few exceptions I haven't seen, they all have been done (to death) before, although admittedly with a varying degree of success.)


I don't know. This is the case of less is more, I think. Your arguments might convince other people, but for me, Shizuku is actually better off without you defending her.

[Mentar]

matterra, I think you're misunderstanding my intentions a little bit. I'm not a campaign manager of the "make the world worship Shizuku" movement, and so I'm not out to alter anyone's perceptions or opinions on her

So, if you dislike her, that's peachy with me. More power to you. And if my explanations why _I_ like her make you hate her, that's fine aswell. What would I be supposed to do? Shut up to avoid that?

I'll try to pick out the points you were trying to make which I'd like to comment on.

But Natsuru does ask what Shizuku intends to do. More than once (I'm being conservative), it seems, and not just a few minutes after a fight either. However, Shizuku always brushes him off and/or distracts him (as someone said elsewhere in this thread--might even be you). Natsuru isn't a pushy (or particularly assertive) person (yeah, it's a weakness, but it's who he is), so he backs off.

As an example, watch episode 7. With a disgusted face, in an accusing voice, Natsuru demands to know what Shizuku's "objective" was. Asked in such a rude way, I wouldn't tell him either. However, she does tell him that she wants to investigate something.

Do we have an exchange of information? No, Natsuru rudely demands some from Shizuku, and she doesn't elaborate. And that's as far as he goes. Does he offer a truce or suggest some cooperation? No, he didn't (his demand was to keep Kaede safe). That was actually Shizuku's suggestion.

So far, pretty much all relevant information about the background has come from Shizuku (e.g. when she bought VIP time from Natsuru to tell him about the new Kämpfer). Can you remember any contribution from Natsuru/Akane other than his observation that all Entrail Animals have come from Kaede? I can't...

Even you seem to just give excuses for her. For instance, why would she have to tell them anything since no one basically cares enough to ask?

Look - she's a red bracelet Kämpfer and been through her share of battles. I don't want to start pushing novel knowledge, so I'll just say that she has ample reason to personally hate the blue side. Now you expect her to explain the results of her prior investigations, to a bunch of blue fighters who show little concern about it? And not doing so is something which would have to be "excused"? Not in my universe, sorry. However, I guess she'll even do it soon, anyway.

your arguments (and not so much of those you argue against) make me realize plenty of her faults and leave me pretty much unconvinced of her good side.*

*Does she even have any? Other than being calm and not freaking out over every single little thing, that is?

Okay - what are her "faults"? I can list her devious streak which loves to mess with people and put them in difficult/embarrassing situations (even though as an anime viewer, I consider this a big plus). What else?

Let's make a quick list of little things which have been beneficial for Natsuru:

- Enrolling him on the female side with a sufficient cover story to give him a safe haven when transformed
- Enabling him to spend more time with Kaede (multiple times, she's also helping Kaede here)
- Quelled the Yuri drama around him
- Saved him from Kaede discovery during Karaoke
- Saved Kaede from being shot by Akane (who was already pulling the trigger)
- Helped to stop Mikoto, quell the fight and forge a truce
- Reminded Natsuru of the deserted Kaede
- Drove off the White Kämpfer (who was about to retaliate)

No good sides? Really?

Yeah, I'm being cynical. Personally, I've never found any character to be a breath of fresh air or some such (even compared to his/her own cast mates). Not even the characters I like.

We're deep in "personal preference" territory here. Sorry, but I have to say that the constant bickering between Sakura and Akane is beginning to grate on my nerves - because it's so predictable. Mikoto is a pleasant addition, but she's also not really part of any productive background investigation. Natsuru is the most reasonable aside from Shizuku, but he's mostly driven by the snow, almost purely reactive. The only character who proactively _does_ things seems to be Shizuku. Both on the investigation end, but also with her messing with people, which makes things more lively. And lively is good

[Triple_R]

A key point that needs to be considered in Shizuku's defense is the red kampfer vs. blue kampfer situation.

How much sensitive information would you trust with a person that you might be forced to fight against again?

Shizuku has her flaws, sure, but she's level-headed and fairly reasonable.

I certainly don't agree with everything that she's done, but some of her decisions have been good, at least. Most importantly, perhaps, is that her decisions are calmly and coolly arrived at, even when they are arguably wrong.

She's the only character not being completely led around by his or her emotions, really.


Like Mentar, I grow tired of the Akane/Sakura battle for female Natsuru. Shizuku adds a little bit of unpredictability to it all, at least. Not much, but some.

[hollowification]

i was wondering what is the song that play in ending theme of kampfer

[Midonin]

There are many resources to find this out, including ANN, Wikipedia, the official website, the ending credits, etc.

[Full Metal Coast]

what you have to remember about shizuku is that she is a red kampfur and Akane and Natsuru are blue Kampfers when you look at the Kampfer battles Shizuku does not have to tell them anything. but what i really think she is doing is first trying to get some solid information/evidence to back up and confirm whatever she is thinking about the Kampfer battles. why would she tell anyone what she is thinking at this point anyway if she has no solid info to back her up.

also she is the only character i really fully respect in the series so far because she is trying to get to the bottom and maybe stop the Kampfer situation and also the only one thats being fair/true to Natsuru and letting him figure out his own feelings for each of the girls on his own but at the same time she has made it quite clear to him that she does like him and will now let him come to his own conclucions.

also on a side note each episode i watch i just hate Kaede more and more i just cant stand her and Akane hurry up and confess to Natsuru.

[Velsy]

The one thing that wsa so bizzar about this episode was....... the rotten animals were moving around while in the presence of Sakura ? They were drinking and talking and surely Sakura would of worked that out. or maybe she already knows of the kamfpers ? she has a room full of intestine animals.

I've speculated about her earlier in the series as all the entrail dolls are coming from her. But now I speculate futher. Is she just being deceptive and turning a blind eye ? obviously she would of thought something strage when the alive entrails were drinking and talking.....

I know Shizuku has already speculated something from that room, tho its not clear. It just seems Shizuku is the only one whos trying to get to the bottom of this Kampfer thing. Find out whos setting up the show.

Storyline is already weak/flawed, but I just been watching cause its somewhat entertaining and funny.

Spoiler for episode 7:

ps - did sakura discover natusra in the blankets before she *supposely* passed out. Her passing out is suspicious too.

[vaden]

Originally Posted by Velsy

the rotten animals were moving around while in the presence of Sakura ? They were drinking and talking and surely Sakura would of worked that out.

There was a disclaimer to the effect of "Sakura is too busy being infatuated with Natsuru to notice the animals" twice during the episode. ;)

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

A key point that needs to be considered in Shizuku's defense is the red kampfer vs. blue kampfer situation.

How much sensitive information would you trust with a person that you might be forced to fight against again?

Shizuku has her flaws, sure, but she's level-headed and fairly reasonable.

I certainly don't agree with everything that she's done, but some of her decisions have been good, at least. Most importantly, perhaps, is that her decisions are calmly and coolly arrived at, even when they are arguably wrong.

She's the only character not being completely led around by his or her emotions, really.


Like Mentar, I grow tired of the Akane/Sakura battle for female Natsuru. Shizuku adds a little bit of unpredictability to it all, at least. Not much, but some.

Well obviously Akane is frustrated with this as well and would sooner just clue Kaede in on everything and end it, but Natsuru wouldn't want that, and Akane is trying to work in his best interests while stifling her own feelings. Shizuru can act calm cool and collected because like I said, this is like a game to her and she's got close to zero emotional investment in it besides humor. I'd seriously like the tables turned for once.

I'll honestly say that I might be the reverse of you and Mentar, I cannot stand characters who are made to be too intuitive and too intelligent, like someone brought in a Mary-Sue just to make the other characters look like chumps. Rubs me the wrong way. Not disagreeing with you two that she is helpful, I'm just pointing out a few things.

Also, Mentar, you say why should she relay information unless asked? Hasn't Natsuru asked before? I'd think two people in the dark like them would appreciate knowing more. Saying: 'well you didn't ask," is just holding out on someone. I don't see her revealing any cards she doesn't want to show.

You have a peculiar idea about relationships, it seems. You realize that you might actually develop feelings for someone, so instantly you have to adapt to the other's level? What you seem to forget is that the revelation that Shizuku is feeling jealous is new to her - it happened at the end of ep7. Until then, it was mostly fun and games. And now, we'll have to see how she deals with it.

In my life experience, if you have to warp yourself too much to accomodate to the potential partner, things probably won't last. Naturally, there's always a certain degree as to how much you should adapt to make things easier for the other one, but there's a limit to it. We may see in ep8 how far Shizuku might be willing to go here. But I sure hope that she won't try to become a Kaede clone just because that might be popular with Natsuru. That wouldn't be "personal wisdom", it would rather be the opposite: It would be the wrong thing to do.

I never said that she had to change everything about herself, you're making some very extreme assumptions. I'll go so far to say that the things she does can be called harassment and an obvious abuse of her influence/the situation. Quite a bit of what she does is beneficial, but there are times where she has made the guy feel uncomfortable and downright humiliated, frankly on purpose, and without apology. There are ways to tone down this playful nature without making her a different person. YOU may like being used as a plaything but maybe he's not like that.

Opportunistic?

Please elaborate. What exactly is opportunistic in what they've been doing, in particular Shizuku?

Haha, calm down tiger. I didn't mean it in a bad way, just that their both pretty sly when it comes to getting what they want. I don't think I would need to elaborate more than that.

But yeah, it'd be a good idea to chalk this up to preference.

[longshot]

hmm quite an interesting revelation in episode 7 i feel like trying the pocky game now..well again anyway, that and we have another color to contend with

Due to the color of the kampfers now i think the moderators are :
American
French
British
Australian
Iceland
Netherlands
Russian
Korean(North or South i can't recall)
New Zealand

[Full Metal Coast]

Originally Posted by longshot

hmm quite an interesting revelation in episode 7 i feel like trying the pocky game now..well again anyway, that and we have another color to contend with

Due to the color of the kampfers now i think the moderators are :
American
French
British
Australian
Iceland
Netherlands
Russian
Korean(North or South i can't recall)
New Zealand

care to explain your moderator theory because its gone way over my head.

[Willen]

Originally Posted by Full Metal Coast

care to explain your moderator theory because its gone way over my head.

Colors. Red, White, Blue.

That's the common scheme for all the flags of those countries. (And both N. and S. Korea use the same colors in their flags.)

[Patriot's Blade]

Originally Posted by Willen

Colors. Red, White, Blue.

That's the common scheme for all the flags of those countries. (And both N. and S. Korea use the same colors in their flags.)

maybe its like Halo or something, e.g. with the Reds VS Blues & stuff

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X.

maybe its like Halo or something, e.g. with the Reds VS Blues & stuff

Cue Akane yelling at Sakura for camping, while Natsuru yells at Akane for teamkilling.

[Fawx9]

Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X.

maybe its like Halo or something, e.g. with the Reds VS Blues & stuff

Great, now I want them to put in a reference to the RvB series.


Of course that wouldn't be a bad thing.

A female version of sarge would make this series so much more interesting.

[Master_Yoma]

Natsuru is such an idiot braking the pocky and hiding he such a pussy

[Wrath88]

Something my mind came up with (probably unrelated to anime though):
Imagine the 4 girls body-swapped:
Shizuku in Sakura's body
Akane in Shizuku's body
Mikoto in Akane's body
Sakura in Mikoto's body

Natsuru would probably go insane...

Back to the anime, I doubt the idea was for Red vs Blue, its just that those two are already opposing colors in a sense. (Wouldn't mind seeing the RvB humor in this though)

[Triple_R]

Question: Has Kampfer reached a high enough popularity to warrant its own subforum?

Of the other animes that only came out in the fall, and are listed in the Fansubbed section, Kampfer is currently the only one with a view count of over 100,000 for its thread.

I'm not well-versed on what thresholds typically have to be reached to shift from Fansubbed listing to having your own subforum, but... I'm just curious here if 100,000 views is enough of a threshold and/or if other Kampfer fans would like to see this anime get its own subforum.

[Fishfood1]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Question: Has Kampfer reached a high enough popularity to warrant its own subforum?

if there's enough different viewers, then i think that's the main requirements.

hmm... i think the main problems for it getting a subforum is:
A: it's too ecchi, i think mods don't like to give subforum for a relatively ecchi show.
B: it's too late now, with like half or more of the episodes aired already

if this show goes into season 2, maybe. but at the moment, i don't think it have much of a chance, especially being this late.