2012-12-02, 17:07 | Link #31281 | |
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Since she claims to actually be the killer herself, she needs her personality to match what we know about that killer. Therefore, the events on the gameboard necessarily influence her behavior.
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2012-12-02, 21:43 | Link #31283 | |
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How Beatrice decides to commit the crimes changes drastically in each episode. However, it's part of her character to do things on a whim, just for the hell of it. So that alone doesn't qualify as a plot hole as long as she can think of a plausible excuse.
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2012-12-02, 23:36 | Link #31285 | |
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Obviously Beatrice has many motives beyond just playing the role of the culprit, but acting the part of the culprit is clearly one thing she does throughout most of the question arcs.
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2012-12-04, 17:38 | Link #31287 |
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Say is the manga canon?
I know its been done more than enough but from what I can tell it certainly has quite the amount of things leading to Rosa. Examples: The letters Nanjos son, Sabakichi and Ange received being adressed to Hokkaido which is where Rosa was with "her boyfriend" (Sent at the 3rd, received after incident) or Evatrice mentioning Rosas past intentions of becoming a witch and believing in the forest witch and wishing to fly around like a butterfly as well as her relation to spider webs and having said herself she tried to solve the riddle in the past. And she trapped butterflied in webs while the people on the Island were once referred as butterflies. Just feeling kinda mindf'd now. Ryukishi is at the very least trying to make it look like Rosa and that REALLY hard as said, above are just examples, there is tons. I don't care if its a Red Herring or Truth, Ryukishi is putting on massive amounts of Rosatrice things, at least I understand why people believe it so much now. Maria: "Beatrice turns to Butterflies!Uuu-" Evatrice: "Yep, you told me that you wanted to become a Butterfly and flutter around the Garden." "You told me that you wish to become a witch when you were young. "How about dancing in this eternal dream?" Dammit Ryukishi.XD On a different note: Why did all 3 letters have 07151129 notes with them? Last edited by Kiltias; 2012-12-04 at 18:28. |
2012-12-04, 18:57 | Link #31288 | |
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Ryukishi said he would add extra clues in the manga, which is why in EP 8 manga version the game that Ange plays with her relatives is pretty different and filled with clues. However I don't know if he started adding clues right from the first volumes of the manga or in those he gave the manga authors more freedom. If i don't remember wrong in EP 3 there were clues pointing to Kyrie/Kyrie's gun being the one who shoot at Hideyoshi for example. That number was required to access to the bank account. |
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2012-12-05, 08:38 | Link #31289 | |
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I wonder if they changed that line in the PS3 version too? I can definitely imagine Kyrie shooting Hideyoshi better than I can Rudolf, so it wouldn't surprise me if that's something Ryukishi changed his mind on or something. |
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2012-12-05, 09:10 | Link #31290 |
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I would presume the manga is canon, at least in the sense that it's been said that Ryukishi has input over what gets put into it. I don't think they'd just make up new details without consulting him, and if a detail were incongruous with what he intended he'd veto it. Hopefully.
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2012-12-05, 19:54 | Link #31291 | ||||
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To make things vaguer, it's also said that Hideyoshi took the gun of one of them but the novel said it could be one of the other. So the gun that was closer to Rudolf could have belonged to Kyrie since the novel took care to say it was unknown which gun Hideyoshi took. At least that's what is said in the fantasy scene as likely the bodies weren't moved after their dead. Due to the vagueness of the novel I like to think the manga is giving us an hint about Hideyoshi being shoot by Kyrie or being betrayed by her (in the magic scene he's shoot in the back). [Ep 3 chap 14] Interesting enought the anime (Ep 16) uses a gun that's far from both. On a sidenote I've always thought that EvaBeatrice represented the alliance between Yasu and Eva so in the mystery side she was nothing else but a Yasu who had sided with Eva which makes rather interesting her argument with MetaBeato as it shows the two Beatos having different goals. MetaBeato wants to be acknowledged by MetaBattler but EvaBeatrice has no such goal, nor care for MetaBattler who, in a discussion, is defined as a person with which EvaBeatrice wasn't supposed to interact (and, interesting enough, it will be Battler who'll 'force her' to interact with him) Quote:
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And we've 2 Beato even in Ep 6 and one of them can't care less about Battler and don't interact with him while the other does. Interesting enough the one we call Beato the elder is however close to the other Beato and apparently seems to have the same goal as her although ChickBeato's motive is that she wants to please Battler by becoming the Beato he wanted her to be while Beato the elder doesn't share this feeling and, although presented as a piece that's from the past, she interacts with the present. If we assume Beato the elder is actually PieceBeato and that Yasu began to write tales in which she figured were written prior to Battler's return and therefore prior to trying to send a message to him she's technically a Beato of the past who originally had a completely different goal than 'making Battler remember' although in the end she also tried to work to help the other Beato to reach her own goal. Yes, young Beato is defined as a piece that Battler 'set on the gameboard' but I wonder if the gameboard involved is the one of the mystery tale or a meta one. Besides MetaBattler too was defined as a piece in the beginning and, although he looks like he wants to challenge Erika, in truth is possible he was using Erika to have Beato remember. In short he was sort of challenging her in a gentler way than the one Beato used with him. To make short a long story I'm still of the opinion that the goal of MetaBeato and PieceBeato aren't exactly matching and that PieceBeato is a piece that MetaBeato is trying to use to reach her own goal. There's also this interesting bit of discussion in Our Confession between Shannon and Beato: Quote:
So, Shannon's goal here seems more to fulfill MetaBeato's will than her own. If she and MetaBeato were the same person it'll look like Yasu is insane but if she's just a character in MetaBeato's story it'll make more sense that she will accept the author's goal as her own. [Although a good writer shoulden't force a goal on a character... however it's possible that the 'forcing' represents that the real Shannon wasn't a killer but that in the story her PieceVersion becomes one to fulfil the author's purpose more than the purpose of the real Shannon. Due to this her actions were 'forced' as they wouldn't fit the real Shannon but they needed to be as such to fit with MetaBeato's purposes] Another sidenote. In Ep 5 Natsuhi said she confessed being the cause of the servant's dead in front of the servant's husband grave few years ago. Although likely Natsuhi didn't mean to be heard it's possible she traveled to where the guy was buried with someone else (for example Shannon) and this person overheard her saying so without her noticing. This would explain why Yasu knows Natsuhi caused the baby to fall a thing Natsuhi apparently didn't tell anyone. Of course another possibility is that, since Ep 5 was written by Battler, it was Toya who found out this. Since it's said that the servant and the baby were rushed to the hospital both apparently still alive the servant might have said something like 'madam pushed me' but the whole thing was hushed by the Ushiromiya's money or whoever picked up the servant's confession didn't dare to report it to the police in fear of the Ushiromiya's power and due to lack of proof and that tattled it out only after the incident, helping to build up a Natsuhi culprit theory in Toya's time. Last edited by jjblue1; 2012-12-05 at 20:29. |
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2012-12-06, 05:27 | Link #31292 | |
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The manga also adds the line "Eva did not kill Hideyoshi.", the novel and console version removed the red on the line "the above 15 people are dead" when Evatrice counts Kanon and Shannon seperately. |
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2012-12-06, 09:08 | Link #31293 |
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It's easy to imagine that, yeah. There's a lot of things that would be clearer to convey in a manga or animated format, but I don't really trust anything from the anime because it was a mess visually. The manga seems to be kept on a considerably tighter leash, so if there's additional hints there they're probably reliable.
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2012-12-06, 18:10 | Link #31296 |
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Well, why does meta-Beatrice show Battler this transition, and what's the difference between the old and new Beatrice? You're calling one of them piece and the other meta, but the piece version disappears in a meta scene, and the meta version becomes the character on the game board.
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2012-12-06, 20:13 | Link #31297 | |||
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MetaBeato also said to Battler she won't finish the game, just abandon it and that's what the first Beato does. Quote:
On a sidenote. No idea if it's a hint but in the manga version of Ep 8 Lion is shown as clearly taller than Beato. |
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2012-12-06, 23:03 | Link #31298 | |
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2012-12-07, 06:29 | Link #31299 | ||||
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Then again, in Our Confessions Krauss and Natsuhi brazenly claimed there to be a demon. Quote:
Not everything she does has to, or even should, make logical sense. Quote:
And the results by looking at each game individually are quite different from looking at the whole story from a meta perspective... Actually, that thing about Kanon being the 9th victim tells us more than I had originally thought. If you make the reasonable assumption that "Kyrie's group" really means Kyrie, Krauss, Nanjo, Shannon, and Kanon then that means there are only 10 candidates for the 8 people who died before him: The 6 FT victims, the 2 ST victims, and Gohda and Kumasawa. If G&K were actually killed after Kanon it would mean that all of the FT and ST victims were truly dead when Kanon was killed. And if G&K were killed before Kanon, it would mean that exactly 2 of the FT and ST "victims" were still alive when Kanon was killed. |
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2012-12-07, 13:10 | Link #31300 | |
The True Culprit
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