What's up with Isshin Kurosaki?

[hakisak]

Originally Posted by magenet

i don't know why everyone so obsessed with kaien. i swear, if ichigo were to be kaien reincarnation. (i know hes not). i will stop watching and reading bleach at that moment. i won't accept that failshinigami = ichigo. no sir.

I am so with! I AM SO WITH YOU!

I won't be happy about it either...

Originally Posted by Lady Luna

Ichigo is Jesus?

He is the anointed one...

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by blammo

My theories and I will break them down, ive been going over this in my head a lot.
ive seen every Bleach except the stuff with the psycho seated officer that escaped to the real world,

1. 20 years ago, hhm, sounds right around the time Kenpachi Zaraki "killed" the previous 11th division captain, weve heard many many different explanations for this in Bleach, Killed, beat, defeated, I know we have all heard Ichinose freak out at Kenpachi for killing his captain, but what if, the defeat was purely the thing Bayakuya did to Ichigo in bleach 16 or 17, cut his Chain link and soul sleep, depriving Isshin of his power, practically killing him, and forcing him to flee soul society.

Major problems with this.
1) Kenpachi was a seated captian before Ikkaku joined up. Ikkaku joined up well before Renji joined so Kenpachi would have been a captian at least 50 years ago.
2) Kenpachi killed the last Kenpachi in a 1 on 1 dual in front of at least 200 people of the 11th devision. Ignoreing Ichinose, who's back story is really messed up now that we have more information on the 11th divison and the title of Kenpachi, ie that it is only passed on through the defeat of the person holding the title and the 11th's idea that it's only a defeat if you are dead, Tousen was the source of the information that Kenpachi killed the last one and it is at least implied that he was there. Short of Azein you're going to be very hard pressed to fool that many people.
3) Urahara is stated as the reason Isshin did not have his powers for 20 years and it is implied that Isshin volontarly had his powers sealed.

2 Captains that are never seen, but mentioned, Turn back the pendulum, a few captains are missing, / not seen, its possible that in the past, Isshin held the title of Kenpachi, and is the lazy one Shinji mentioned,

unlikely for the above reasons and the fact that that Kenpachi is either the current one or the last one before him. Also, not showing up for meetings is well within Zaraki's personality

3. Royalty, or something to do with it, Isshin being a part of the royal family, or royal guard would explain quite a lot, particularly if he was expelled from the royal guard for loss of power, this scenario would explain the lack of visibility of Isshin in flashbacks, (most logical, and probably what Tite Kubo is planning)


4, Isshin is the son of Take your pick, Koryaku, or Yamamoto, I say Koryaku, the facial resemblance interesting, and something in the exchange between Bayakua and Ukitake make me think that they were NOT referring to Kaien Shiba

A link to the Shiba clan is far more likely.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by christinemarie

What if Isshi Kurosaki is actually the King's son and former no.1 captain (Yamamoto actually in a higher position back then but force to return to 1st since Isshi run away. In order to protect his son he ordered Yamamoto not to tell about it, he doesn't know yet Ichigo is the grandchild of the King) before the old man take charge but runs away since he hates responsibility and went into the Human World after what happened to Urahara and others and stayed for many years until he met Ichigo's mother and everything happened as it is. That explains his power.

Other theory Isshi is actually the missing King of the Soul Society. That makes Ichigo prince of Soul Society and his sisters princesses.

Isshin Kurosaki is Urahara Kisuke's master who teached him lot of techniques. He's the only Captain that can use 3rd form of his Zanpaktou more powerful than Bankai.

(Although Aizen also knows how to use the 3rd form as well, the real villain in the series is Aizen's teacher. He get more power by using the hollow's abilities. And want to get King's Key in the process to further making him powerful.)

I haven't heard this much bullshit since the "Pain is Naruto's long-lost brother" theories.

All this is made up. No 3rd form of Zanpakutou exists as far as anyone knows, and what the hell does that have to do with Aizen anyway? And everything before that is wild fairytales. I can't even call them theory or conjecture because to be those things, you need PROOF. Which does not exist.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Yeah sadly, the only things we have to go on regarding Isshin is that he is at least implied to be Captain strength, due to the implication of his words to Grand Fisher and the implication of the torn Haori. (and the fact that he one shot Grand Fisher)

Only other info to go on is that he has known Urahara for at least 20 years, because he got the Gigai to hide himself. He also knew Ryuuken from when he had his powers.

Shinji didn't recognize his reiatsu (I think) which rules him out of being around ~100 years ago in SS.

I'm sure theres some other info I am forgeting, but still that doesn't leave much to work with. So a couple of 'likely' possibilities (already mentioned in the thread).

1) He was a Representative in the past. This would help fit in with why he knew Ryuuken. However, if he was a representative with similar circumstances to Ichigo, he would not need a Gigai to hide in (unless he truly wanted out of the business).

2) He was a Captain in SS. If he was a former captain in SS, it would have to be in the period after Shinji left. This would fit in with him knowing Ryuuken (since the guy can't be much more then 40) and with him going to see Urahara to get the Gigai. You could also draw the conclusion from when Juushiro and Byakuya were talking on the bridge about who Ichigo resembled, the obvious choice is Kaien but it could be his father they see in him - I haven't read that part for a long time though. (still leaves the question of why he wanted to leave SS, and who he was exactly)

3) Same as above but was a captain before Shinji came to SS. This theory would be my preferred one for the SS Captain theory but there are problems with it. It would have to mean that Isshin spent over 100 years (in the real world or elsewhere) hiding himself until he could get the Gigai from Urahara and then somewhere along the line meet Ryuuken and build some friendship with the guy, which to me is a big stretch. It would work with the not knowing Shinji criteria however.

4) He belongs to an organization other the the Gotei 13 (Royal Guard or what not). This is getting into the more wild theory department. The primary (only?) choice is the Royal Guard (Zero Division). It would fill the criteria for why Shinji doesn't recognize him or why none of the SS people seem to recognize the name Kurosaki (presuming it is his 'real' name). It would also explain why someone of Captain Strength is outside Gotei 13 apparently missing for 20+ years. Once again though still leaves the question of why he went into hiding or gave up his powers 20 years ago. This theory would also leave the possibility for him to have a relationship similar to the one Ichigo and Uryuu have with each other but in different circles not involving the Gotei 13.

5) King of SS. Of all the theories its the most outlandish, but considering Isshin's character... I think it is unlikely though, but like all the theories it still leaves the question of WHY. But unlike the first 3 theories it has time on its side. Isshin could have left the Royal Dimension 20 years ago, he could have met Ryuuken and he could have contacted Urahara all without the knowledge of SS.

To be honest I think the question of WHY he went into hiding is just as important as the knowing who he was prior to 20 years ago. Although it could just be as simple as he met Masaki and wanted to become human.

nb: might add some more typing this during a WoW raid >.>

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Well, as far was time goes, I'm pretty certain we don't ahve to worry about something as mundane as AGING. As you might have guessed, the way people age in Soul Society and outside it seems to be far from the real-world norm. I mean, Byakuya is at least 100+ years old yet he is arguably younger looking than Isshin. I mean seriously, Urahara hasn't aged at all (perceptibly) since he left SS, even though he's living in the "real-world", aka outside SS. Same goes for Unohana, Kyouraku, and Ukitake, as well as the Vizards (or visoreds, if you want to spell it that way).

My point is that aging means little in Bleach. So therefore Isshin, if he was in fact a Shinigami of SS, could easily be hundreds of years old and we wouldn't be able to tell either way.

In my opinion, I think it's more plausable to say he might be a captain that predates even the Pendelum gaiden, and perhaps left SS for some unknown reason (maybe becaue he fell in love with Ichigo's mom! j/k). I mean, as far as we've seen, people from SS live a very, VERY long time. I can't say any more than that because I don't have proof.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Its not so much the age's of the Shinigami that is the issue, its to fit things neatly into the time line. For example, he cannot be there around 100 years ago, or Shinji would recognize him. Nor could he have been there in the last 50 years or Rukia would have possibly have recognized him if he was a Captain (assuming that Captains would be a familiar face)... So he could not have been in SS during those time periods. So there is a small 50 year window after Shinji and co left and when Rukia turned up, otherwise he needs to be prior to Shinji becoming a captain (and I don't think we have a time period for how long he was a Captain). But he has previous acquaintance with Urahara. This could mean Urahara has been a Shinigami for a very very long time before finally becoming a captain or its just that when Isshin 'busted out' from where ever he came from he sought out Urahara. What I'm getting at is that Time is a jigsaw in this case not so much for the measurement of peoples ages.

This is assuming he was a captain in Soul Society and not from the Royal Guard, in which case the issue of time would pretty much go out the window.

The only person who's age would be a concern is Ryuuken, and thats because he seems to have previous history with Isshin from when he was a Shinigami. But he is not, cannot be, much more then 40 years old.

[David_The_Gnome]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

My point is that aging means little in Bleach.

Must really suck to look like a 85 year old for all "conceivable" eternity, while that 500 year old dude next to you looks like a pretty boy.

[MAQI]

Originally Posted by David_The_Gnome

Must really suck to look like a 85 year old for all "conceivable" eternity, while that 500 year old dude next to you looks like a pretty boy.

It would suck, but that 85 year old looking dude could kick the ever livin snot out of you and then flame broil you to perfection... damn now I want some Burger King...

[David_The_Gnome]

Originally Posted by MAQI

It would suck, but that 85 year old looking dude could kick the ever livin snot out of you and then flame broil you to perfection... damn now I want some Burger King...

He still isn't getting laid.

[miroku2192]

after watching this episode (episode 210) again...i'm starting to wonder...that vaizard captain (forgot his name, the one that always gets beaten up by hiyori)...he doesn't know/recognize ichigo's dad's reiatsu right? (as seen in episode 111)...so ichigo's dad was right after this? or right before this event? or what? i'm a bit confused on this whole time line thing

[BeCool09]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

after watching this episode again...i'm starting to wonder...that vaizard captain (forgot his name, the one that always gets beaten up by hiyori)...he doesn't know/recognize ichigo's dad's reiatsu right? (as seen in episode 111)...so ichigo's dad was right after this? or right before this event? or what? i'm a bit confused on this whole time line thing

His name's Shinji, and we don't know if he recognized Isshin's reiastu or not. Kubo hasn't made it clear. Everybody has an opinion about Isshin, but no one really knows when or in which squad he was in when he was a Shingami. But we do know that it has been 20 years since he has been a shingami (so, I guess we can say that it's been 20 years since he's been in the Soul Society). I think that some of the current characters know him, though.

[WONDERMIKE]

Originally Posted by BeCool09

His name's Shinji, and we don't know if he recognized Isshin's reiastu or not. Kubo hasn't made it clear.

Well, Kubo made it quite clear in my opinion since Shinji/Ichigo had their !-moment right after Ishin stepped in and called it a Shinigami's reiatsu. Shinji already detected Grand Fisher some panels earlier and wasn't too impressed. But that's my pov.

You mean Shinji could have referred to Grand Fisher's reiatsu? Hmmm, I'm sure he was able to identify the type of reiatsu which leads to the following:

Shinji must know a lot of Arrancar reiatsu-signatures, otherwise he wouldn't be surprised to find himself unable to recognize Grand Fisher's.

[TheWinterCold]

I think that Isshin would have to be in the royal guard
I also think that the reason Ichigo had to be stabbed to gain his Zanpakuto/Shinigami powers is because Isshin was in gigai form when Ichigo was conceived - though the powers were inside Ichigo, they had to be 'awakened', this woulld make sense with the 'Isshin must be in gigai' form theory

this would also be why Ichigo has insane powers and a bankai (would a normal shinigami be able to stab the thing to draw the zanpakuto spirit out... then beat it?) when most people have to train for a hundred years?

good theory?

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by TheWinterCold

I think that Isshin would have to be in the royal guard
I also think that the reason Ichigo had to be stabbed to gain his Zanpakuto/Shinigami powers is because Isshin was in gigai form when Ichigo was conceived - though the powers were inside Ichigo, they had to be 'awakened', this woulld make sense with the 'Isshin must be in gigai' form theory

this would also be why Ichigo has insane powers and a bankai (would a normal shinigami be able to stab the thing to draw the zanpakuto spirit out... then beat it?) when most people have to train for a hundred years?

good theory?

That's 10 years to get bankai, and he was using Urahara's hax doll (he got bankai in 3 days too and he was just a captain). Zangetsu still says that Ichigo's powers are his own, so it doesn't count as having his father's abilities sealed inside him, and it doesn't really explain WHY Isshin would have to be in the royal guard.

[Justin Kim]

Overall, I think Shinji is just really good at detecting reiatsu better than the other captains. Considering how he ripped Aizen's illusion with just his hand >.>, if your powerful enough and get too close to him even when suppressing your reiatsu; he will probably still catch you.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by BeCool09

His name's Shinji, and we don't know if he recognized Isshin's reiastu or not. Kubo hasn't made it clear. Everybody has an opinion about Isshin, but no one really knows when or in which squad he was in when he was a Shingami. But we do know that it has been 20 years since he has been a shingami (so, I guess we can say that it's been 20 years since he's been in the Soul Society). I think that some of the current characters know him, though.

but i thought he said, "oh i don't recognize this reiatsu"...and this scene (right now with shinji fighting) takes place what ~90 years ago?

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by BeCool09

His name's Shinji, and we don't know if he recognized Isshin's reiastu or not. Kubo hasn't made it clear. Everybody has an opinion about Isshin, but no one really knows when or in which squad he was in when he was a Shingami. But we do know that it has been 20 years since he has been a shingami (so, I guess we can say that it's been 20 years since he's been in the Soul Society). I think that some of the current characters know him, though.

Shinji flat out states that it is an unknown Shinigami reistu. As for being in SS 20 years ago this is pretty unlikely since if that was the case Rukia should know him as she has been both the sister of a high noble and captain, and part of the inner circle of her own captain and vice captain for almost 50 years.

Originally Posted by miroku2192

but i thought he said, "oh i don't recognize this reiatsu"...and this scene (right now with shinji fighting) takes place what ~90 years ago?

100 years

[Kyo69]

Spoiler for big manga page ch 187:

My guess is the Isshin is/was a substitute shinigami just like Ichigo. And Masaki, Ichigo's mom, had shinigami powers for sure.

[Strygwyr]

Originally Posted by Kyo69

My guess is the Isshin is/was a substitute shinigami just like Ichigo. And Masaki, Ichigo's mom, had shinigami powers for sure.

doubt it.....she could save Ichigo and be still alive, she should have notice the fisher's presence.
~just my opinion...

[Meisterdieb]

Originally Posted by Kyo69

My guess is the Isshin is/was a substitute shinigami just like Ichigo.

Could be... but then the only reason we see Isshin with shinigami clothes and what appears to be a captain's cloak would be to mindfuck the viewers/readers.
Which would make it epic level of lame.

Originally Posted by Kyo69

And Masaki, Ichigo's mom, had shinigami powers for sure.

And we know that because??