[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 357 Discussion

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Oh you misunderstood me I never said you were incorrect I was just stating exactly how their powers work.
I don't think Hacchi's powers can be used for destructive purposes either, he looks to peaceful but so does everyone else who can kick your ass into next century

I see. Thanks for clearing that up. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[tensashinigami]

Originally Posted by sayde

Then this would be one way to demonstrate how Inoue's abilities differ from Hachi's.

yeah, if we will ever see Hacchi and Inoue actually do battle.

[Justin Kim]

Originally Posted by kakakka

I remember hearing once before that bankai doesn't hold that long: has time limit or drains too much power. I dunno if this is true though....

I do not think it would drain that much power if you had much experience in training with Bankai form on. I mean just look at Byakuya and Ichigo, maintaining the Bankai form is completely effortless for them. Renji, however, has very limited training according to Byakuya, and supposively the Bankai form he with-holds is thousands of years away from Byakuya's stability.

[ChojinLocke]

I think Innoue can reject variables in an equation but not reject the equation itself. Maybe a restriction will be put on her powers in future to make it clear (Apart from the restiction we already know it takes touch and focus to actually deny something - otherwise she would deny Aizen's existence simply put).

To put is plainly, I think she can deny 'alterations to existence'. I dont think she has been shown denying original existence up till now. That would introduce problems in the plot.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

I think Innoue can reject variables in an equation but not reject the equation itself. Maybe a restriction will be put on her powers in future to make it clear (Apart from the restiction we already know it takes touch and focus to actually deny something - otherwise she would deny Aizen's existence simply put).

There's actually several restrictions IMO. There's the one you mentioned, and then there's the fact that she can only seem to reject whatever is within the area of the rejection field itself (which seems relatively small). She also doesn't seem to have a way to keep individuals from leaving this limited space. Finally, Inoue's rejection field was shown to be easily shattered by someone significantly stronger than her (though this maybe a limitation that she can eventually overcome). So these current restrictions on her abilities may be all that's necessary.

If the method to reject someone or something's existence involves the same exact method to heal someone, then that would mean the individual she tried to reject would have to remain immobile in order for Inoue to pull-off an insta-kill. And since I doubt anyone (especially Aizen) would simply stand still and let that happen, then I don't think that would introduce too many problems to the plot.

Basically, if she is capable of insta-killing someone by rejecting them, then odds are, the target would have to be defeated the hard way first. And by that point, who cares?

[Fran~]

I really think that Kubo left a lot of plothole with Orihime's power... he never thought that these powers can transform her in a goddess like Haruhi, where basically (and theorically) she can get what she desires.

I mean, "KUROSAKI-KUN!" dies, she brings him back to life (twice)... somone looses a limb, no problem, Orihime does the job... Rukia is hurted, Orihime fixed her.... and so... it remembers me Edward Elric and how he transmutes things thru alchemy

[Rava]

Originally Posted by sayde

She also doesn't seem to have a way to keep individuals from leaving this limited space.

Nitpick #1: Not true. She kept Ichigo in the barrier when Yachiru was threatened by Nnoitra and she went to defend her. His hand sizzled and was repelled when he tried to break free. You can see this both in the manga (Chapter 310) or in the anime.

Finally, Inoue's rejection field was shown to be easily shattered by someone significantly stronger than her (though this maybe a limitation that she can eventually overcome).

Nitpick #2: The defensive one and Tsubaki are yes, but the "healing" one was only shown to be easily broken from the outside, which it isn't rejecting. Also, for the defensive one, even if it is shattered it still seems to stop the attack completely.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Rava

His hand sizzled and was repelled when he tried to break free. You can see this both in the manga (Chapter 310) or in the anime.

But he didn't really *try* to break free. Not only was he still weak, but it's not as if he attempted to kick or punch his way out after he was repelled. He touched it lightly and gave up.

Originally Posted by Rava

Nitpick #2: The defensive one and Tsubaki are yes, but the "healing" one was only shown to be easily broken from the outside, which it isn't rejecting.

Then at the very least, I can still say it's within the realm of possibility for someone to break through the other side of the barrier since we already know it can be broken from the outside and no one has yet to make any real effort to escape from the inside. There's also the fact that she had a hard time rejecting a wound which had residual reiatsu energy emanating from it.

So if some left over reiatsu alone is enough to disturb the effect within the field, then this also helps support the possibility that someone can break out from within Inoue's field of rejection if they're strong enough. At the very least it should be possible to emit reiatsu in such a way that the person inside can shield themselves from being rejected.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Fran~

I mean, "KUROSAKI-KUN!" dies, she brings him back to life (twice)... somone looses a limb, no problem, Orihime does the job... Rukia is hurted, Orihime fixed her.... and so... it remembers me Edward Elric and how he transmutes things thru alchemy

Except Orihime has never brought Ichigo back to life with her powers. The first time Ichigo fought Ulq, Grimmjow stated that Ichigo hadn't died but was on the verge of death when she healed him.

In the second fight against Ulq, it was Ichigo's hollow powers that revived him not Orihime's powers.

The only person Orihime's ever brought back to life is Meloly.

Orihime hasn't done anything too ridiculous for the good guys, like restoring limbs or bringing people back to life...yet. She's just healed injuries which probably Uno or Isane capable of taking care of anyways. More than likely, she's going to bring back Ishida's hand though.

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

I do not think it would drain that much power if you had much experience in training with Bankai form on. I mean just look at Byakuya and Ichigo, maintaining the Bankai form is completely effortless for them. Renji, however, has very limited training according to Byakuya, and supposively the Bankai form he with-holds is thousands of years away from Byakuya's stability.

Ichigo has even less bankai training than Renji. There's no time limit for bankai. Byakuya mentioned that bankai will only disappear against the user's will if they are close to death, meaning a shinigami can maintain bankai indefinitely otherwise. The only possible exception is Hitsugaya, because it's said bankai fades once all the ice petals melt (though that was Shawlong's speculation).

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Except Orihime has never brought Ichigo back to life with her powers. The first time Ichigo fought Ulq, Grimmjow stated that Ichigo hadn't died but was on the verge of death when she healed him.

Granted... but... almost dying Ichigo did was saved by her, back in his fight against Aizen (he almost splitted Ichigo in 2 ), after that, she saved him in his second fight against Batman (the first one was at Karakura) even the hole in his chest disappeared, etc...

So, what i was trying to say is that she actually "healed" him... or she just "denied" what happened to him (and Chado, Jiranbo (sp), Rukia, Grim, Meloly, etc)?

I want to remark the difference between "heal" and "deny". People only can be"healed" a fixed number of times, it's like Sakura said to Naruto, she cant fixed him forever, a human body only can be "healed" until the body can tolerate it. Orihime skips that... she denies the event, she can do it forever, because she is not healing, she is denying an injury or a death.

The only person Orihime's ever brought back to life is Meloly.

AND HOW!!!... that was just some pieces that she brought back to life!...
That's the point i want to make.

Orihime hasn't done anything too ridiculous for the good guys, like restoring limbs or bringing people back to life...yet. She's just healed injuries which probably Uno or Isane capable of taking care of anyways. More than likely, she's going to bring back Ishida's hand though.

I wasnt saying that it was ridiculous... im trying to say that she DOESNT heal, she denies, that the powers that kubo gave to her doesnt have limits and i think that kubo just didn't notice how powerful Orihime is.

So, Unohana, Isane, Hanatarou are "doctors" (like Tsunade, Shizune, Sakura, Ino)... Orihime isnt, she is something totally different, i dont know how to define her... a goddess?. Only Gods can create things from nothing, deny events, etc.

I think that orihime's powers are not being understanding.

[Kafriel]

even the hole in his chest disappeared

Actually Ichigo did that by himself, I think it's part of his hollow powers.
But I'll agree, Orihime's powers are broken as hell, time/space manipulation is something final bosses get before they're owned and Orihime's had it all along...and to top it off, her power level can go over 9000 if she gets emotional.

[Cub-Sama]

Shouldn't Orihime's abilties be able to reject mental abnormalities such as Hollow Ichigo

[Marcus H.]

I don't think Hollow Ichigo is an 'abnormality'. I think it's more of a manifestation of his urge to fight against his Hollow powers.

About Orihime, her powers is so h4x even Kubo Tite has so much loopholes on them.

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Shouldn't Orihime's abilties be able to reject mental abnormalities such as Hollow Ichigo

Theoretically speaking yes, but she's secretly in love with his sadistic nature so she'll never reject him

[Frenchie]

Man that chapter was epic. I didn't think I'd say this again in the Bleach thread, but I suppose Kubo hasn't lost it completely yet and -sometimes-, just -sometimes- he pulls something out of his ass. That death breath was purely horrifying, and Espada no2. is officially (by my books anyway) the most badass Espada, simply because he lives up to the name of an ascended Hollow.

That double spread was actually so much win I just -had- to do something with it. Didn't clean it much, but I certainly enjoyed my contrast and hue adjustments this time around.

Spoiler:

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Theoretically speaking yes, but she's secretly in love with his sadistic nature so she'll never reject him

Well Ichigo became a shinigami at the same time, so that would probably involve him losing his powers all together, which is never gonna happen to the main character. Perhaps in the end it might. That would be interesting.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

The only person Orihime's ever brought back to life is Meloly.

Um wrong she also brought back the 2 unnamed escorts that Uliq killed, and by killed i mean removed a large part of thier torso

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Ichigo has even less bankai training than Renji. There's no time limit for bankai. Byakuya mentioned that bankai will only disappear against the user's will if they are close to death, meaning a shinigami can maintain bankai indefinitely otherwise. The only possible exception is Hitsugaya, because it's said bankai fades once all the ice petals melt (though that was Shawlong's speculation).

While there may not be a explisit time limit it bankai does wear a fighter out faster then not useing it. That was part of the reason Ichigo did not want to use bankai early on in the HM arc. Ichigo's bankai has an even more detmental effect that it places a lot more stress on the body then normal, luckly for him he has gotten passed the point where it would break his own bones useing it.

Originally Posted by Fran~

I really think that Kubo left a lot of plothole with Orihime's power... he never thought that these powers can transform her in a goddess like Haruhi, where basically (and theorically) she can get what she desires.

I mean, "KUROSAKI-KUN!" dies, she brings him back to life (twice)... somone looses a limb, no problem, Orihime does the job... Rukia is hurted, Orihime fixed her.... and so... it remembers me Edward Elric and how he transmutes things thru alchemy

Orihime's powers have always been pretty well defined by Kubo. It's just he mislead people to think they were just the standard normal shonen ablities.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by El_Frenchie

Man that chapter was epic. I didn't think I'd say this again in the Bleach thread, but I suppose Kubo hasn't lost it completely yet and -sometimes-, just -sometimes- he pulls something out of his ass. That death breath was purely horrifying, and Espada no2. is officially (by my books anyway) the most badass Espada, simply because he lives up to the name of an ascended Hollow.

That double spread was actually so much win I just -had- to do something with it. Didn't clean it much, but I certainly enjoyed my contrast and hue adjustments this time around.

Spoiler:

He sure is
And nice colouring

By the way... just a suggestion, maybe you could colour Soi Fon with her rioting arm?

Even though she is my fave character, but the arm looked really cool
Can't wait to see it animated

[Sabaku Kyu]

@ El Frenchie, that is a great coloring of Barragan. Two thumbs up! I hope his cloak is that color in the anime. Really works perfectly.

Originally Posted by kagato3

Um wrong she also brought back the 2 unnamed escorts that Uliq killed, and by killed i mean removed a large part of thier torso

I thought that too, but surprisingly enough it seems they weren't dead. @_@

When Orihime's used her powers to revive them Ulq's response was "You can even heal them if they're that badly injured?" which implies they were alive, if barely

Originally Posted by Fran~

I wasnt saying that it was ridiculous... im trying to say that she DOESNT heal, she denies, that the powers that kubo gave to her doesnt have limits and i think that kubo just didn't notice how powerful Orihime is.

Huh? Kubo is constantly pointing out how godlike Orihime's abilities are. Why do you think he had Luppi and Loly freak out when they saw Orihime use her powers? He's fully aware of just how broken her powers are in theory. I'm just saying that so far he hasn't had her serve any purpose for the good guys outside standard healing.

I'm actually interested in seeing more of Hacci's powers because they might give us some more insight into what we could see from Orihime. Really, I just want to see the vizard in action period.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I'm actually interested in seeing more of Hacci's powers because they might give us some more insight into what we could see from Orihime. Really, I just want to see the vizard in action period.

I'm more interested in a clear explanation about why Orihime and Chad have powers who look "Hollowish", Ichigo is son of an "ex-shinigami" but Orihime and Chad are humans (Ishida is a quincy), Karin is Ichigo's sister, so it's ok, but even Tatsuki and Keigo can "see" hollows and Shinigamis.