(L+CR) Golden Time

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

This is the very nature of subjectivity. You realize that someone looking at the same issue from a different perspective and with a different set of constraints and experiences will arrive at a different conclusion, and that this is okay. Neither side is necessarily wrong, but they each still have to make a decision. This is the same thing I've been saying about Banri; they're the same person with different perspectives, and both of their ways of looking at their circumstances have merit. The see the world through different "eyes" (though in certain moments they're the same). That's why, understanding the full picture, Banri will eventually have to make a decision not between black and white, but between two grey options where one of the two parties will absolutely get hurt (if not both), and he will hurt for having to make that decision. Life isn't black and white, it's grey... but that's anything but simple.

There was another topic that he asked afterwards, but I will refrain of doing so since even the professor himself couldn't answer. However, you got it correct, of the very nature of the question. There isn't no simplicity in life in those moments that we truly want, where it presents itself here in the story. Which makes this series entertaining because there isn't no clear cut answer because we, the audience, always look at many perspectives and try to find the right answer for all of them. An average story you can, but a truly interesting story you cannot unless the author serves it up on a silver platter at the end which I suspect he won't.

[ellessarr]

for now for me i deal with both banri being 2 different personalits, like in the anime ore nouna where chocolat also have 2 personalities, i call ghost banri just because this is how he keep calling himself and looking(have this ghost like appearance) buth their are just a split personalitie caused by the accident and in the end probabilly both of them will ending merging after their agree about their issues get finished(old banri get his regret toward linda closed, and current banri can happy with koko).

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

Nope, I didn't gloss over anything. The first half was some Banri x Linda interaction-- which we got two episodes ago and the second half was Koko being jealous, which we got last episode.

I don't think Kouko was being jealous the last episode. She was more insecure and sad, so I therefore think we actually got something new regarding Kouko this episode. Namely how she tries to manage and control her jealousy, as compared to before when she hit Mitsuo with the roses (parallelism here) and stepped on other people's foot.

[cRs95]

Oh man, I can't stand this long time between each episode.
I wish I would have discovered this anime when it was finished airing.
But it's clear that something will go terribly wrong in the next episodes.
Especially this whole just-the-two-of-us-beach thing.

I like Kouko too much that I can't stop thinking about if they're breaking up or not. Even if she gets together with Mitsuo in the end, this wouldn't satisfy me enough.

This anime is driving me crazy..

[playmaker2k]

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

That whole regaining of memories only to lose them a few seconds later was extremely anti-climactic and kind of lame, imo. Seemed like a wasted cliffhanger.

Instead, we get your typical Japanese manga "24 hour cold of imminent death" that leaves you so weak, you can't even walk straight. The show basically took a half hour to show us that Kaga was jealous and insecure (which we already had last episode).

Overall, fairly boring episode, imo.

Anime fans often ask "Why can't more romance anime have the main romance established early on, so then we can spend time focusing on the main couple actually in their romance?"

Well... here you go!

[mod edit: removed meme image, but it says "Are you not entertained?"]


This is what actual romance often involves. Couples caring for each other during sickness. One half of the couple feeling insecure when the other half gets a bit too close to a third person. Couples planning romantic getaways together. That's raw, everyday, real life romance right here.

I give Golden Time credit for presenting all of this in a very authentic, "true to life" way. I thought it was a pretty good episode, though admittedly not exactly a thrilling one. But if people prefer more standard anime romance fare, then maybe that speaks to why more anime shows don't have the main couple established until near or at the end of the anime.


In any event, I thought this was a good episode for Koko. She still has some insecurity, but she's definitely improving. Her treatment of Linda was way better than her treatment of Oka back when Koko consider Mitsuo her boyfriend.

[ellessarr]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Anime fans often ask "Why can't more romance anime have the main romance established early on, so then we can spend time focusing on the main couple actually in their romance?"

Well... here you go!

[mod edit: removed meme image, but it says "Are you not entertained?"]


This is what actual romance often involves. Couples caring for each other during sickness. One half of the couple feeling insecure when the other half gets a bit too close to a third person. Couples planning romantic getaways together. That's raw, everyday, real life romance right here.

I give Golden Time credit for presenting all of this in a very authentic, "true to life" way. I thought it was a pretty good episode, though admittedly not exactly a thrilling one. But if people prefer more standard anime romance fare, then maybe that speaks to why more anime shows don't have the main couple established until near or at the end of the anime.


In any event, I thought this was a good episode for Koko. She still has some insecurity, but she's definitely improving. Her treatment of Linda was way better than her treatment of Oka back when Koko consider Mitsuo her boyfriend.

but to be fair not all seinen romance(where the couple is stabilished early in the plot) are about love triangle or harem, a good amount is just about the day life of the "couple" relationship, rivals can pop up and for "both sides" not only for female, but their also have others elements and not just focus on a love triangle.

even few shounen dont with romance dont have harem or love triangle.

i already read a lot of them where dont have rivals or rivals not are that important as is here and are more like just some random arc moments.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

This is what actual romance often involves. Couples caring for each other during sickness. One half of the couple feeling insecure when the other half gets a bit too close to a third person. Couples planning romantic getaways together. That's raw, everyday, real life romance right here.

Honestly, I'm not sure that I can really see this as romantic. Rather, it was foreshadowing for upcoming drama. The tone/nature of the music, and the delivery of the lines, was a mix of dread, tension, and uncertainty. The "caring for each other during sickness" wasn't romantic, but because she's insecure to the point that she feels that if she leaves him alone, he'll get taken away (which is why she even offered the "romantic getaway" in the first place -- she wants to hurry and seal the deal before it's too late).

So yeah... I wouldn't have called this episode "actual romance". More like the storm clouds on the horizon getting ever closer. This is what an impending break-up involves.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Honestly, I'm not sure that I can really see this as romantic. Rather, it was foreshadowing for upcoming drama. The tone/nature of the music, and the delivery of the lines, was a mix of dread, tension, and uncertainty. The "caring for each other during sickness" wasn't romantic,

It certainly seemed romantic to me. Staying with him for that length of time, while he slept, shows a touching degree of love and dedication, in my view.

Also, don't you think she'd want to be there for him regardless? A rather cold relationship for boyfriend/girlfriend if one having a pretty serious bout of sickness doesn't prompt the other one to at least show up in person simply out of a sense of concern over the sickness itself.

I'd hate to think that Koko is doing this purely to "keep him", and isn't truly concerned about his basic physical well-being at all...

but because she's insecure to the point that she feels that if she leaves him alone, he'll get taken away (which is why she even offered the "romantic getaway" in the first place -- she wants to hurry and seal the deal before it's too late).

Romantic getaways to fix perceived issues within an established relationship is also a fairly common part of actual romances.

Look, they have an established relationship. They consider each other boyfriend and girlfriend. Their mutual friends consider them boyfriend and girlfriend. If people want a romance drama where a romance is established early, then here you have it. There's no uncertainty in the nature of their relationship, just over whether it'll last or not. But many actual romances face that sort of issue at times.

So this episode is actual romance. Actual romance involves more than just butterflies and rainbows.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by playmaker2k

Quite the early Christmas present .

I hope there isn't any alcohol in what they're drinking. Barring the fact that they're underage, episode 6 implied Kouko can't really hold her liquor .

Either that, or the Tea Club is just heavy on the alcohol for anyone they can get their clutches on. And speaking of, it looks like those two are finally coming back .

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Also, don't you think she'd want to be there for him regardless? A rather cold relationship for boyfriend/girlfriend if one having a pretty serious bout of sickness doesn't prompt the other one to at least show up in person simply out of a sense of concern over the sickness itself.

Funny you should say that. She just finished feigning sickness for a week over her insecurities (she had to be reminded of her "I had a cold" excuse when he brought it up), and in that whole time he never went to go see her because she never told him where she lives (and has resisted his attempts to broach the subject). It was just complete radio silence from her. It took him going to the hospital and having others girls taking care of him in her stead to have her wise up that moping about things at a distance isn't going to help.

I'm not saying any of this to blame her or anything, but whatever "romance" there was in this episode was completely overshadowed by the rather dark under- and overtones, to me anyway. I realize real romantic relationships aren't all happiness and sunshine, but this is pretty oppressive. My view is that the sooner the house of cards comes crumbling down, the sooner they can actually start working on building a real relationship founded on trust. Watching the two of them right now is watching two kids try to play house, and play it very poorly.

[ChainLegacy]

I think the ending scene when Koko and Banri were alone was a pretty good time for him to bring up the nature of his past with Linda. Certainly, he's wrestling with it himself, but continuing to hide it like this, especially when Koko clearly knows from taking the picture, is becoming a worse and worse idea as time goes on...

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

I think the ending scene when Koko and Banri were alone was a pretty good time for him to bring up the nature of his past with Linda. Certainly, he's wrestling with it himself, but continuing to hide it like this, especially when Koko clearly knows from taking the picture, is becoming a worse and worse idea as time goes on...

Well, yeah. What's making Kouko so insecure is not knowing what's inside Pandora's Box (but having ever-increasing suspicions), and not wanting to open it for fear of losing current Banri forever. Meanwhile, he's finding himself more and more drawn to the box, and he also doesn't want to bring it up because the intensity of those feelings seem like they'll drag him away from his "dream" with Kouko. His lack of willingness to open up to her reflects his lack of confidence in his current self; partly thinking that Kouko is way out of his league and wondering if she really still loves Mitsuo more anyway, and also being increasingly less sure of who he is as memories of the past keep creeping closer. Her own chronic insecurity and weak sense of self don't help.

In the end, though, you're absolutely right: the longer they go without both being open and honest with each other, the worse things get. It only increases both of their respective insecurities, feeding off of each other in a perverse but perfect balance. What a mess... (But that's also what makes it interesting to watch. )

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, yeah. What's making Kouko so insecure is not knowing what's inside Pandora's Box (but having ever-increasing suspicions), and not wanting to open it for fear of losing current Banri forever. Meanwhile, he's finding himself more and more drawn to the box, and he also doesn't want to bring it up because the intensity of those feelings seem like they'll drag him away from his "dream" with Kouko. His lack of willingness to open up to her reflects his lack of confidence in his current self; partly thinking that Kouko is way out of his league and wondering if she really still loves Mitsuo more anyway, and also being increasingly less sure of who he is as memories of the past keep creeping closer.

In the end, though, you're absolutely right: the longer they go without both being open and honest with each other, the worse things get. It only increases both of their respective insecurities, feeding off of each other in a perverse but perfect balance. What a mess...

The funny thing about that mess is realistically, it can be easily solved if they opened up about it. Had to help a buddy of mine in high school with that minus the supernatural and split personalities, went smoothly. However, what would be the purpose of the build up, to have it be solved that easily would just ruin everyone expectation for drama.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, yeah. What's making Kouko so insecure is not knowing what's inside Pandora's Box (but having ever-increasing suspicions), and not wanting to open it for fear of losing current Banri forever. Meanwhile, he's finding himself more and more drawn to the box, and he also doesn't want to bring it up because the intensity of those feelings seem like they'll drag him away from his "dream" with Kouko. His lack of willingness to open up to her reflects his lack of confidence in his current self; partly thinking that Kouko is way out of his league and wondering if she really still loves Mitsuo more anyway, and also being increasingly less sure of who he is as memories of the past keep creeping closer. Her own chronic insecurity and weak sense of self don't help.

In the end, though, you're absolutely right: the longer they go without both being open and honest with each other, the worse things get. It only increases both of their respective insecurities, feeding off of each other in a perverse but perfect balance. What a mess... (But that's also what makes it interesting to watch. )

Koko's insecurity also leads me to the suspicion that her just the two of us romantic getaway is a gambit to keep Banri interested through "physical means" (given that she alluded to her Paris plan, I assume she's implying sexual activity is the ultimate goal of such a trip).

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx

The funny thing about that mess is realistically, it can be easily solved if they opened up about it. Had to help a buddy of mine in high school with that minus the supernatural and split personalities, went smoothly. However, what would be the purpose of the build up, to have it be solved that easily would just ruin everyone expectation for drama.

Well, yeah. If they could open up and be honest, they wouldn't have this issue in the first place. But the whole thing is setup so that they start with a very weak foundation (still remembering the "masquerade" episode title from when they first started dating, as was pointed out), have the fall-out, and then re-build after that. So at this point I'd say we're just waiting for the trainwreck to happen, and what happens after that is what truly matters for the two of them.

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Koko's insecurity also leads me to the suspicion that her just the two of us romantic getaway is a gambit to keep Banri interested through "physical means" (given that she alluded to her Paris plan, I assume she's implying sexual activity is the ultimate goal of such a trip).

Yup, I think that was absolutely what she was trying to infer from the comment, and that's what he understood from it too. She's willing to settle for something that isn't her perfect plan if she thinks it'll mitigate an even worse one that she sees otherwise coming. (Of course, even if they did go through with it -- which I highly doubt -- it won't help.)

[ArrowSmith]

I just hope this doesn't end like School Days.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by ArrowSmith

I just hope this doesn't end like School Days.

Spoiler for Comparison to School Days:

It won't gonna happen. Why would either girls dare to kill the guy who isn't being a NTR jerkass?

[finalfury]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Koko's insecurity also leads me to the suspicion that her just the two of us romantic getaway is a gambit to keep Banri interested through "physical means" (given that she alluded to her Paris plan, I assume she's implying sexual activity is the ultimate goal of such a trip).

Well, that ain't gonna end very well.

That girl still has a lot of growing up to do. Is that possible that her insecurity is overpowering her sense of trust in Banri or is it such that her trust in Banri hasn't risen to a level to overpower her insecurity? These are different circumstances that lead to the same effect but the different circumstances have different implications and that's what I wanted to know.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by finalfury

Is that possible that her insecurity is overpowering her sense of trust in Banri or is it such that her trust in Banri hasn't risen to a level to overpower her insecurity? These are different circumstances that lead to the same effect but the different circumstances have different implications and that's what I wanted to know.

Personally, I think her own insecurity is the biggest factor. I think she still believes that without someone in her life, she's worthless, which is what came out when she had the big falling-out with Mitsuo. The main reason she finally confessed to Banri was because he told her that he wanted nothing more to do with her. And now that she sees him getting increasingly close to Linda (and has increasing hints about the past), she basically offered her body to him sooner rather than later. She seems hyper-aware of her own failings, even though she can't stop herself from putting on a big act to try to cover it up. More than anything, I think she doesn't want to feel abandoned and alone again, and that's what she's feeling increasingly even when she's with Banri. If Banri really did cheat on her, I think she'd believe it was all her fault.

In other words, I think she doesn't trust herself or believe enough in her own self-worth, and is placing her entire self-image in her perception of how things are going with Banri, the way she had focused entirely on Mitsuo before him. And although Banri has some issues that may cause her trust to be shaken, I think ultimately only time would be enough for her to get over it. Honestly, him confessing to her right after she had the big Mitsuo blow-out was an extremely bad idea and kind of unfair. I think even he realized that too right after he said it, and still can't really believe she ultimately said yes (and he probably feels deep-down that he's still being a Mitsuo-replacement for her, which he kind of is).