Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

There is a quantifiable difference in skill level with little reason to justify it.

The justification is as follows:

1. The Strike Freedom would be an easier mobile suit to adjust to than the Freedom.
2. The Strike Freedom is a more capable mobile suit at defense and mobility than the Freedom.
3. Regardless of a 2-year-gap in the middle, Kira still gained experience from the cumulative battles he did fought from the time he first piloted the Freedom until the time he first piloted the Strike Freedom, including his previous defeat by the Impulse.
4. I just rewatched episode 43 at the part before Athrun showed up, and no, Shinn and Rey definitely did not attack Kira as hard as the Biological CPUs did. However, to Rey's credit, he was able to create an opening for Shinn, but we won't know if Shinn could've capitalized on it as Athrun distracted Shinn at that point.

And unfortunately for Shinn and Rey, this short period as well as the short period at episode 50 were the only two times they had to work together against Kira before Athrun evens out the odds. With the Biological CPUs, at least 2 would go for Kira while one would go for Athrun.

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

You know what they say about ties...

They go with button down shirts?

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Athrun never lost a fight while in Seed Mode. Kira did, as did Shinn. Kira and Athrun fought to a draw when Athrun went Seed for the first time.

Also, Athrun piloted the most mobile suits, followed by Shinn (a distant second), and finally Kira.

Just saying.

1-self-destruction because he was near check-mate = not same as tie
( he used to much power in battle till his MS lost all its power = easy target for Kira knife......
yes knife , for some reason most of his ace kill/win in strike was with his knife )

2- Kira only one of 4 Seed pilots who can enter seed mode at will = he can enter it at start of fight and end the fight if he want ( look at shin in orb fight)

3-Athrun MS = melee suit , Shin MS= junk of all trade and Kira MS= range suit,
main reason Shin lost to Athrun because he enter in melee fight like idiots
(Ray wasn't with him to cool down his rage and tell him stay the hell away from IJ melee range)

[monster]

Shinn actually does most of his best works in melee, aside from destroying mass produced mobile suits.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by monster

Shinn actually does most of his best works in melee, aside from destroying mass produced mobile suits.

Shinn does do a good job with melee since he has to do it with an anti-ship sword vs SF's and IJ's beam sabers.

[Deadpool2000]

End of fight, neither pilot could continue fighting... I call that a stalemate.

Also, fairly certain by end of Seed and end of Seed Destiny Athrun can go Seed on cue as well. He only stopped when he was uncertain of his path...

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by monster

Shinn actually does most of his best works in melee, aside from destroying mass produced mobile suits.

what I mean to use enemy weak point like he done with Kira
Shin is good with melee but IJ better at it so it's better for him to attack from mid+ range or higher
(using his hand and leg against IJ = is like asking to get butchered )

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

End of fight, neither pilot could continue fighting... I call that a stalemate.

Also, fairly certain by end of Seed and end of Seed Destiny Athrun can go Seed on cue as well. He only stopped when he was uncertain of his path...

so self-destruction attack >>>>>>> pilot skill?
+
can't remember gundam seed but just because he used to be able to use it not same as can use it right now

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Shinn does do a good job with melee since he has to do it with an anti-ship sword vs SF's and IJ's beam sabers.

To be fair, Shinn could, at least, make Kira dual-wield, while Athrun doesn't have to. So, I'd say Athrun would be the best at close-combat.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Yesman

To be fair, Shinn could, at least, make Kira dual-wield, while Athrun doesn't have to. So, I'd say Athrun would be the best at close-combat.

What do you mean? Athrun loves to go Darth Maul and combine his two beam sabers.

[Yesman]

Originally Posted by quagmire

What do you mean? Athrun loves to go Darth Maul and combine his two beam sabers.

What's more practical? Dual-wielding or combining two beam sabers into one?
Also, didn't Darth Maul lose to a dual-wielding Obi-wan?

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

so self-destruction attack >>>>>>> pilot skill?
+
can't remember gundam seed but just because he used to be able to use it not same as can use it right now

If Kira had just flown into a trap and Athrun insta-self destructed, I'd agree with you. But that's not what happened. They fought toe to toe as equals and when Athrun ran out of power, he self destructed. That was certainly a stalemate.

Also, Athrun sure seemed to use his Seed Mode whenever he felt like after he got his conviction back... Kira just never lost his.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by Yesman

What's more practical? Dual-wielding or combining two beam sabers into one?
Also, didn't Darth Maul lose to a dual-wielding Obi-wan?

Technically Maul was only single wielding by then, as his saber was damaged and has one of the blade emitters chopped off shortly into the fight.

But regardless, in both Gundam and Star Wars, there's no "better" way to fight. It all comes down to the skill of the wielder.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

If Kira had just flown into a trap and Athrun insta-self destructed, I'd agree with you. But that's not what happened. They fought toe to toe as equals and when Athrun ran out of power, he self destructed. That was certainly a stalemate.

run out of power because he was using his full MS power to fight against Kira toe to toe just like shin done when he enter seed mode and what happen? he too lost most of his MS power while Kira still in clear

if both fights continue in Seed mode = sooner or later Kira will win
(In Athrun case = he just need to used his knife)

one decide to use self-destruction while other to re-supply
(It's like boxer who can fight toe to toe with champion in first 6 rounds only to start losing his fuel/power/speed near last 6 round = easy win for the champion)

about using and not using dual -> wasn't Athrun first one to combine both saber in seed?
=so that mean it's Athrun personal fighting style

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

run out of power because he was using his full MS power to fight against Kira toe to toe just like shin done when he enter seed mode and what happen? he too lost most of his MS power while Kira still in clear

if both fights continue in Seed mode = sooner or later Kira will win
(In Athrun case = he just need to used his knife)

one decide to use self-destruction while other to re-supply
(It's like boxer who can fight toe to toe with champion in first 6 rounds only to start losing his fuel/power/speed near last 6 round = easy win for the champion)

about using and not using dual -> wasn't Athrun first one to combine both saber in seed?
=so that mean it's Athrun personal fighting style

The difference being that, of course, Athrun had an attack left and Shinn didn't.

Self destructing after trapping his enemy is a perfectly fine attack. He used the extra power to actually end up in an advantage and he capitalized on it before it came back to bite him in the ass.

As for dual wielding... Realistically, that off hand is really not that useful...

[Raso]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

As for dual wielding... Realistically, that off hand is really not that useful...

Mobile suits do not have the typical issues associated with an 'off hand', the writers failed to really show this though...

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

The difference being that, of course, Athrun had an attack left and Shinn didn't.

Self destructing after trapping his enemy is a perfectly fine attack. He used the extra power to actually end up in an advantage and he capitalized on it before it came back to bite him in the ass.

As for dual wielding... Realistically, that off hand is really not that useful...

dash >hug enemy> self-destruction = yes > perfectly fine attack but that does not meant he have better skill then Kira

just like it's perfectly fine to ignore cockpit defense and only protect your weapon + change them when you need to defeat enemy who only used 25% of his weapons

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Raso

Mobile suits do not have the typical issues associated with an 'off hand', the writers failed to really show this though...

Most fiction forget how bad your off hand in. Dual wielding pistols isn't that useful either.

It SHOULD still affect a mobile suit. Makes sense for the left arm and hand controls of an MS to be under the pilot's left arm and hand. It likely does not.

Originally Posted by Gundamx

dash >hug enemy> self-destruction = yes > perfectly fine attack but that does not meant he have better skill then Kira

just like it's perfectly fine to ignore cockpit defense and only protect your weapon + change them when you need to defeat enemy who only used 25% of his weapons

Except Athrun forced Kira into the position needed for the attack to work. While Shinn just used his mobile suit's design to keep him in a fight he had no business being in.

Athrun fought a blood thirsty Kira to a standstill and destroyed both mobile suits in his final attack. Shinn went through 3 mobile suits before taking down a Kira who had no intention of killing him. It's a slightly different situation.

[Rising Dragon]

A mobile suit wouldn't have the same strength and targeting issues in dual-wielding that an organic body would have. Therefore the only thing needed is the skill.

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

A mobile suit wouldn't have the same strength and targeting issues in dual-wielding that an organic body would have. Therefore the only thing needed is the skill.

But pilot should still be controlling the off hand side of the mobile suit's body with his off hand... Which shouldn't be as skilled.

[Rising Dragon]

It's not the same as using your actual arm for the same maneuvers. It's a control stick, and would theoretically require less overall movement to figure out, and therefore would be easier to learn. Add in software aid and the lack of a need to develop the off-hand arm, and it's far more feasible than it would be for a real-life human.