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KLGChaos · 2009-10-18, 13:16

Translation is out... after a pretty good last chapter, this one is definitely lackluster.

Spoiler:

-Since when was Medaka the Nabeshima's friend? I thought she couldn't stand her? Another inconsistency.

-Nothing interesting with Zenkichi. Just Unzen explaining to him a bit more about his sister and class 13. How he and Medaka are the normal ones (if they're normal, I really don't want to see what the rest are like... the six we've seen are bad enough).

-Looks like this is going to turn into a battle manga with lots of butt-kicking women and their male lap dogs. Yay. Sorry, I'm a guy. While I don't mind mangas with strong women kicking ass, they have to have a male lead that's just as important to the story and especially, to the girls. This has none of that. I know that NisiOisiN is known for his strong, dominant female leads, but he's gotta give the guys, especially Zenkichi, something to do. Otherwise, he might as well publish the damn thing in a shoujo manga. They'd probably appreciate it more. And please don't point me to chapter one, where Medaka says she needs Zenkichi. There's been no indication of it at all in the manga. I don't know if it's just sloppy story telling or not, but he's done a very bad job at conveying any sort of "need" for Zenkichi in this manga.

-These people have the power to decipher numerical languages in seconds, run at super speeds and swing around 30kg iron balls with ease. Yet, somehow, they get hit by regular people with such force that they're sent flying. Again, it's completely inconsistent. By all rights, even with a surprise punch, Unzen's sister was ready for a fight and would have easily destroyed Nabeshima. I don't care if she's the peak of human physique, these people are basically supermen. I also can't believe people were saying she was cheating. It's a street fight for pete's sake. You can't cheat in a street fight.

Sorry for ranting, but the chapter itself was just a major step backwards. Again, part of me is tired of Zenkichi being pushed to the backburner completely while even side characters held more prominently than him. I don't think I'll have the heart to actually read the next few chapters, as it'll just be more of the same. Him sitting around for a page, listening to Unzen speak while the other girl's fight. Not really interesting at all. It's what I get for getting my hopes up last week, I guess.

Maybe in the end, he'll just kill off the whole male population and make a female dominated, Yuri driven society.

Homura7 · 2009-10-18, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

Translation is out... after a pretty good last chapter, this one is definitely lackluster.

Spoiler:

-Since when was Medaka the Nabeshima's friend? I thought she couldn't stand her? Another inconsistency.

-Nothing interesting with Zenkichi. Just Unzen explaining to him a bit more about his sister and class 13. How he and Medaka are the normal ones (if they're normal, I really don't want to see what the rest are like... the six we've seen are bad enough).

-Looks like this is going to turn into a battle manga with lots of butt-kicking women and their male lap dogs. Yay. Sorry, I'm a guy. While I don't mind mangas with strong women kicking ass, they have to have a male lead that's just as important to the story and especially, to the girls. This has none of that. I know that NisiOisiN is known for his strong, dominant female leads, but he's gotta give the guys, especially Zenkichi, something to do. Otherwise, he might as well publish the damn thing in a shoujo manga. They'd probably appreciate it more. And please don't point me to chapter one, where Medaka says she needs Zenkichi. There's been no indication of it at all in the manga. I don't know if it's just sloppy story telling or not, but he's done a very bad job at conveying any sort of "need" for Zenkichi in this manga.

-These people have the power to decipher numerical languages in seconds, run at super speeds and swing around 30kg iron balls with ease. Yet, somehow, they get hit by regular people with such force that they're sent flying. Again, it's completely inconsistent. By all rights, even with a surprise punch, Unzen's sister was ready for a fight and would have easily destroyed Nabeshima. I don't care if she's the peak of human physique, these people are basically supermen. I also can't believe people were saying she was cheating. It's a street fight for pete's sake. You can't cheat in a street fight.

Sorry for ranting, but the chapter itself was just a major step backwards. Again, part of me is tired of Zenkichi being pushed to the backburner completely while even side characters held more prominently than him. I don't think I'll have the heart to actually read the next few chapters, as it'll just be more of the same. Him sitting around for a page, listening to Unzen speak while the other girl's fight. Not really interesting at all. It's what I get for getting my hopes up last week, I guess.

Maybe in the end, he'll just kill off the whole male population and make a female dominated, Yuri driven society.

Erm, I understand how you feel as a man (I'm a man too), but I think you're overdoing a bit.

As for this:

Spoiler for Nabeshima:

As for how she can do that, next chapter we will probably get the answer.

Johnny · 2009-10-18, 13:55

I wonder if NisiOisiN is keeping Zenkichi in the shadows on purpose. He's gotta know what some people are critiquing his manga about. I haven't heard what type of character he is, but it be hilarious if he's doing it out of spite. It's obvious that if Zenkichi was giving a more prominent role the ratings would go way up. That is kinda funny in itself, but I'd rather much read this read anyways...

Kurosu · 2009-10-18, 13:57

KLGChaos what the heck are you talking about, there's only one female member in the 6 of the 13, so anything else that is to happen in the future with consideration to the flask plan probably won't be as slanted as you see it, it just seems to happen that way right now. I'm with Kurusu that you're overdoing it a bit.

Quote:

While I don't mind mangas with strong women kicking ass, they have to have a male lead that's just as important to the story and especially, to the girls.

Do they really have to? Sure it tends make a good dynamic, I don't quite agree that it should happen that way to make it viable. I doubt Nisio's intent is to push the ticket for female representation in Japanese manga. Though, I do agree that it is rather inconsistent that Nabeshima says they are good friends, it was probably done sarcastically.

Homura7 · 2009-10-18, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny

I wonder if NisiOisiN is keeping Zenkichi in the shadows on purpose. He's gotta know what some people are critiquing his manga about. I haven't heard what type of character he is, but it be hilarious if he's doing it out of spite. It's obvious that if Zenkichi was giving a more prominent role the ratings would go way up. That is kinda funny in itself, but I'd rather much read this read anyways...

Yup, he's keeping him in the shadows on purpose. Then when you less expect he'll do something awesome, because that's what he's been foreshadowed to do. Accomplish awesome tasks in order to ascend. That and become stronger.

And why Medaka being Nabeshima's friend is an inconsistency? She just hates genius types, but that doesn't mean she hates her as a person. Hell, I wonder how many things I hate about my friends, yet they keep being my friends. Then if you have a really good friend but suddenly you find some trait of him/her you don't like, you'll stop being friends with him/her? Seriously...

And what Kurosu say. What Nabeshima said was probably done sarcastically. In fact, when she said she hates genius, she too was speaking with sarcasm.

KLGChaos · 2009-10-18, 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny

I wonder if NisiOisiN is keeping Zenkichi in the shadows on purpose. He's gotta know what some people are critiquing his manga about. I haven't heard what type of character he is, but it be hilarious if he's doing it out of spite. It's obvious that if Zenkichi was giving a more prominent role the ratings would go way up. That is kinda funny in itself, but I'd rather much read this read anyways...

Well, if he's doing it to spite his readers... that's NOT a good way to keep your manga in cirulation.

They are the ones who keep the author in business, after all. Of course, he has his light novels, so I'm sure he doesn't really care that much anyway.

You're right, I'm probably overreacting on this whole "girl power" thing, but it just feels that the whole way the manga has gone so far has been that way. Looking at those who've been portrayed as the stronger ones so far: Medaka, Shiranui (at least she's sly), and now the Judo Captain and Unzen's sis. I know most of the 13 were guys, but I'm talking more about those who've been pushed forward more. Unzen's the only male who's been given anything real to do... and he's just a kid!

Of course, doing nothing extends beyond Zenkichi to Akune and Kikaiima, as well. I just don't like seeing characters introduced, who are supposed to be major players (as the council was the main focus of the first 20 chapters) and then pretty much tossed to the side after a chapter, only brought out to air so we don't forget that they were drawn in the first place. Of course, I still see Akune and Kikaijima as side characters and having them stop Medaka with Zen a couple of chapters ago also makes him feel like he's no more important than they are, which isn't a good thing for a main protagonist. It's funny because people keep saying "Don't worry, he has something planned for Zen! You'll see!" I've been hearing that for 15 chapters now and nothing has changed with the character at all, so it's disheartening.

It kind of feel like Metal Gear Solid 2, where you think you're going to be playing one great protagonist then shortly into the game, you suddenly have to play someone else instead. A lot of people were disappointed in that. Medaka is the Raiden to Zen's Snake. She took over the role of main character and it's just not as good as the original.

Again, most of this comes from my frustration with Zenkichi being completely overlooked since chapter 6. I know he may have plans for him, but not doing anything of significance for like 17 chapters (especially when the manga only has 23 chapters), is kind of annoying.

While it's nice to see Nageshima get some face time and I've always been big on side character getting their due (which is what I liked about Naruto), you really need to do something with your main characters first. Otherwise, it just makes them look even worse.

I still say that if Zen is to accomplish anything awesome, like you say _kurusu_, he needs to break away from Medaka and establish himself. If he keeps following her, he's going to go nowhere, but the manga has shown no signs of him doing so. He seem perfectly content following her around like a puppy. For a guy who so damn tough, he's nauseatingly whipped. And please, oh please, give him more than one page... and something to do other than narrate the story.

Arturro · 2009-10-18, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

I still say that if Zen is to accomplish anything awesome, like you say _kurusu_, he needs to break away from Medaka and establish himself. If he keeps following her, he's going to go nowhere, but the manga has shown no signs of him doing so. He seem perfectly content following her around like a puppy. For a guy who so damn tough, he's nauseatingly whipped. And please, oh please, give him more than one page... and something to do other than narrate the story.

Till chapter 13 in almost every chapter was a hint that Zenkichi and Medaka will be breaking with each other. Yes, he was talking that he is her dog, but someone was talking that he should part ways with her, cause she is holding him down, or that geniuses and normal humans don't fith with each other. Or even he himself was thinking that he is useless and/or doesn't fith with Medaka. After chapter 13 (inroduction fo Kikajima as treasuer) there weren't anymore hinted that he sould part ways with her, a contrary, he repeated a few times that he is her lowly dog and will never leave her. It happened same time when IMHO author turned this manga into battle manga. If youre interested I could send you on PM links to pages with such hints (I'm to lazy to put pages on imagehost or something).
BTW thanx for spoilers, I don't fell any more urge to read last chapter.

Homura7 · 2009-10-18, 15:32

That translation is confusing as hell. Why don't write the character's name in each dialogue? Guess I'll have to wait for the scanlation.

Yep, many people have been talking about how Zen should not follow Medaka wherever she goes: In the gym, Nabeshima herself, some students, even himself... Don't know when he'll begin to play a more significant role but one thing is sure. You can beat or at least fight someone abnormal. Wonder which's Nabeshima's secret. If my thoughts are right, she will train Zen since she seems the only normal capable to fight them.

KLGChaos · 2009-10-18, 18:04

The only thing I can really think of that would make Zenkichi capable of equalling any abnormal, is if he might be the chairman's number one test subject for creating "geniuses". He's been around one for pretty much all his life and given his closeness to Shiranui, it makes sense. Though, how one creates a genius by throwng them in a battle royale with weapons is beyond me. All that usually does is create a bunch of dead normal people. After all, these abnormals were born that way, they didn't learn to be abnormal, it's just the way they've always been.

Btw, Nabeshima isn't a normal. Unzen's sister refers to her as a "special". Don't know how they classify those. I'm not sure if they're just lesser geniuses or if that category includes eveyone who's able to do gret feats within the realm of human possibility. If it's the latter, the Zen would be considered a "special", as well.

Edit: Looks like Medaka dropped a spot lower in the official rankings this week to 3rd from last. I was actually wondering how chapter 17 would fare as it's the genre-shifting chapter where we get Super Medaka showing off her powers. I guess people aren't too fond of her or her abilities.

Homura7 · 2009-10-19, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

Btw, Nabeshima isn't a normal. Unzen's sister refers to her as a "special". Don't know how they classify those. I'm not sure if they're just lesser geniuses or if that category includes eveyone who's able to do gret feats within the realm of human possibility. If it's the latter, the Zen would be considered a "special", as well.

Makes sense. Nabeshima told Zen that with her he would be able to beat any type of genius he faces. I guess by "genius" she meant the abnormal ones, which in turn is more proof that the author planned all this. Well, considering weekly mangakas are at least 3 chapters ahead from the one that is published, can't say it surprises me.

KLGChaos · 2009-10-23, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by _kurusu_

Makes sense. Nabeshima told Zen that with her he would be able to beat any type of genius he faces. I guess by "genius" she meant the abnormal ones, which in turn is more proof that the author planned all this. Well, considering weekly mangakas are at least 3 chapters ahead from the one that is published, can't say it surprises me.

He may have planned it, but the transition was still very poorly done, imo, and could have been handled much smoother. I think the sudden shift kind of turned people off as it really came off as jarring.

Wrath88 · 2009-10-23, 10:11

I think that we can classify Medaka as a naive idiot. Standing there saying 'no reason to dodge since you have no reason to attack'... If the person IS attacking, obviously there IS a 'reason to attack', right?

Well, at least they're shifting the focus away from her for a bit.

By the way, I just realized that the upside-down girl from the 13... a part of her body seems unaffected by gravity, despite its size.

Kurosu · 2009-10-23, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrath88

I think that we can classify Medaka as a naive idiot. Standing there saying 'no reason to dodge since you have no reason to attack'... If the person IS attacking, obviously there IS a 'reason to attack', right?.

Not exactly, it's just like the issue with Unzen. Medaka just doesn't accept Myougi's reason to attack her, or rather just denies its validity.

Arturro · 2009-10-23, 11:28

Spoiler for just complaining:

Kurosu · 2009-10-23, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturro

Spoiler for just complaining:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosu

Not exactly, it's just like the issue with Unzen. Medaka just doesn't accept Myougi's reason to attack her, or rather just denies its validity.

It isn't as nonsensical as you're making it out to be. This worked against Unzen because it just fed the fire of his ego, Myougi on the otherhand probably doesn't care, so it's wasted effort.

Sol Falling · 2009-10-23, 12:17

Wow, it's been so long. So the chapter is finally out, huh? We're a week behind now, aren't we?

Anyway, the peanut gallery this time was pretty hilarious. The retarded 'that's our president' stuff in Ch. 17 was just terrible, but somehow this "what kind of fouls will she show us this time?" and "she's fouling already!" is great. Myougi's comment about 'shallow conviction' intrigues me though. Nabeshima's punch wasn't actually that impressive at all, I kinda get the feeling something ugly'll happen to her next chap

.

On the current discussion, yes, Medaka's unwillingness to dodge is grounded in her rejection of the validity of her opponents' aggression. I think what it really boils down to though is that Medaka hasn't dealt with people on her level before, so she hasn't yet developed the sense of necessity for self-preservation when, for example, someone is swinging 30kg steel balls at her head. Strangely, I think this is grounded in her own rejection of herself and other people in general as 'abnormal' geniuses. Medaka just doesn't understand yet that yes, even she will get pounded into a bloody pulp if she lets someone like that freely smash her face in.

Kurosu · 2009-10-23, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Wow, it's been so long. So the chapter is finally out, huh? We're a week behind now, aren't we?

Technically no, the manga raws or translation for this week have yet to appear, and they should be out later today/tomorrow (I made sure to finish it by today because of that reason). You're caught up, it was just horrendously later than usual.

Jze0 · 2009-10-23, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosu

Technically no, the manga raws or translation for this week have yet to appear, and they should be out later today/tomorrow (I made sure to finish it by today because of that reason). You're caught up, it was just horrendously later than usual.

I believe Sol was talking about ch 23 scans and not the news raws (which still haven't appeared yet).

Wrath88 · 2009-10-23, 13:52

So, basically Medaka is one of those 'I reject your reality and substitute my own!' type of people. She's kind of like a huge walking contradiction in that case... I feel like she imitates people's poses just to get an understanding of their mindset, and yet she also holds such a self-centered viewpoint.

Meh, whatever the case, I'll continue to read and see.

As for the Nabeshima angle, Myougi will continuously get pounded until she wises up and ditches the heavy balls, that's my opinion.

Nvis · 2009-10-23, 14:52

I have a feeling Nekomi will get beaten up.

Even though she's a "Special", she can't match an "Abnormal".

2009-10-18, 13:16	Link #1281
KLGChaos The Shermain Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NY Age: 44	Translation is out... after a pretty good last chapter, this one is definitely lackluster. Spoiler: -Since when was Medaka the Nabeshima's friend? I thought she couldn't stand her? Another inconsistency. -Nothing interesting with Zenkichi. Just Unzen explaining to him a bit more about his sister and class 13. How he and Medaka are the normal ones (if they're normal, I really don't want to see what the rest are like... the six we've seen are bad enough). -Looks like this is going to turn into a battle manga with lots of butt-kicking women and their male lap dogs. Yay. Sorry, I'm a guy. While I don't mind mangas with strong women kicking ass, they have to have a male lead that's just as important to the story and especially, to the girls. This has none of that. I know that NisiOisiN is known for his strong, dominant female leads, but he's gotta give the guys, especially Zenkichi, something to do. Otherwise, he might as well publish the damn thing in a shoujo manga. They'd probably appreciate it more. And please don't point me to chapter one, where Medaka says she needs Zenkichi. There's been no indication of it at all in the manga. I don't know if it's just sloppy story telling or not, but he's done a very bad job at conveying any sort of "need" for Zenkichi in this manga. -These people have the power to decipher numerical languages in seconds, run at super speeds and swing around 30kg iron balls with ease. Yet, somehow, they get hit by regular people with such force that they're sent flying. Again, it's completely inconsistent. By all rights, even with a surprise punch, Unzen's sister was ready for a fight and would have easily destroyed Nabeshima. I don't care if she's the peak of human physique, these people are basically supermen. I also can't believe people were saying she was cheating. It's a street fight for pete's sake. You can't cheat in a street fight. Sorry for ranting, but the chapter itself was just a major step backwards. Again, part of me is tired of Zenkichi being pushed to the backburner completely while even side characters held more prominently than him. I don't think I'll have the heart to actually read the next few chapters, as it'll just be more of the same. Him sitting around for a page, listening to Unzen speak while the other girl's fight. Not really interesting at all. It's what I get for getting my hopes up last week, I guess. Maybe in the end, he'll just kill off the whole male population and make a female dominated, Yuri driven society. __________________

2009-10-18, 15:32	Link #1288
Homura7 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009	That translation is confusing as hell. Why don't write the character's name in each dialogue? Guess I'll have to wait for the scanlation. Yep, many people have been talking about how Zen should not follow Medaka wherever she goes: In the gym, Nabeshima herself, some students, even himself... Don't know when he'll begin to play a more significant role but one thing is sure. You can beat or at least fight someone abnormal. Wonder which's Nabeshima's secret. If my thoughts are right, she will train Zen since she seems the only normal capable to fight them. Last edited by Homura7; 2009-10-19 at 07:16.

2009-10-18, 18:04	Link #1289
KLGChaos The Shermain Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NY Age: 44	The only thing I can really think of that would make Zenkichi capable of equalling any abnormal, is if he might be the chairman's number one test subject for creating "geniuses". He's been around one for pretty much all his life and given his closeness to Shiranui, it makes sense. Though, how one creates a genius by throwng them in a battle royale with weapons is beyond me. All that usually does is create a bunch of dead normal people. After all, these abnormals were born that way, they didn't learn to be abnormal, it's just the way they've always been. Btw, Nabeshima isn't a normal. Unzen's sister refers to her as a "special". Don't know how they classify those. I'm not sure if they're just lesser geniuses or if that category includes eveyone who's able to do gret feats within the realm of human possibility. If it's the latter, the Zen would be considered a "special", as well. Edit: Looks like Medaka dropped a spot lower in the official rankings this week to 3rd from last. I was actually wondering how chapter 17 would fare as it's the genre-shifting chapter where we get Super Medaka showing off her powers. I guess people aren't too fond of her or her abilities. __________________ Last edited by KLGChaos; 2009-10-19 at 08:17.

2009-10-23, 10:11	Link #1292
Wrath88 Kissing... Join Date: Dec 2005	I think that we can classify Medaka as a naive idiot. Standing there saying 'no reason to dodge since you have no reason to attack'... If the person IS attacking, obviously there IS a 'reason to attack', right? Well, at least they're shifting the focus away from her for a bit. By the way, I just realized that the upside-down girl from the 13... a part of her body seems unaffected by gravity, despite its size. __________________ Okairii, Nerine-chan

2009-10-23, 13:52	Link #1299
Wrath88 Kissing... Join Date: Dec 2005	So, basically Medaka is one of those 'I reject your reality and substitute my own!' type of people. She's kind of like a huge walking contradiction in that case... I feel like she imitates people's poses just to get an understanding of their mindset, and yet she also holds such a self-centered viewpoint. Meh, whatever the case, I'll continue to read and see. As for the Nabeshima angle, Myougi will continuously get pounded until she wises up and ditches the heavy balls, that's my opinion. __________________ Okairii, Nerine-chan

2009-10-18, 13:55	Link #1283
Johnny Working the bags... Join Date: Mar 2009	I wonder if NisiOisiN is keeping Zenkichi in the shadows on purpose. He's gotta know what some people are critiquing his manga about. I haven't heard what type of character he is, but it be hilarious if he's doing it out of spite. It's obvious that if Zenkichi was giving a more prominent role the ratings would go way up. That is kinda funny in itself, but I'd rather much read this read anyways...

2009-10-23, 12:17	Link #1296
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	Wow, it's been so long. So the chapter is finally out, huh? We're a week behind now, aren't we? Anyway, the peanut gallery this time was pretty hilarious. The retarded 'that's our president' stuff in Ch. 17 was just terrible, but somehow this "what kind of fouls will she show us this time?" and "she's fouling already!" is great. Myougi's comment about 'shallow conviction' intrigues me though. Nabeshima's punch wasn't actually that impressive at all, I kinda get the feeling something ugly'll happen to her next chap . On the current discussion, yes, Medaka's unwillingness to dodge is grounded in her rejection of the validity of her opponents' aggression. I think what it really boils down to though is that Medaka hasn't dealt with people on her level before, so she hasn't yet developed the sense of necessity for self-preservation when, for example, someone is swinging 30kg steel balls at her head. Strangely, I think this is grounded in her own rejection of herself and other people in general as 'abnormal' geniuses. Medaka just doesn't understand yet that yes, even she will get pounded into a bloody pulp if she lets someone like that freely smash her face in.

2009-10-23, 14:52	Link #1300
Nvis Where are the good animes Join Date: Dec 2003	I have a feeling Nekomi will get beaten up. Even though she's a "Special", she can't match an "Abnormal".