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magnuskn · 2011-03-06, 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

- Yes, and that was after and not before she made her statement. And what Alto did accidentally can also can happen to professionals. The question is just how fast the people are capable to improvise after their mistake.

She still was right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

- I question that he was fully ok with that. What could he do else than being dogged around after seeing her breast and losing one of her earring? If you looked at his facial expressions then you see that he was not always ok with her statements or decisions.

That does still not make her a "bitch".

Quite honestly, if you don't know what a word means, don't use it.

Father Hentai · 2011-03-06, 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnuskn

That does still not make her a "bitch".

Quite honestly, if you don't know what a word means, don't use it.

bitch = das Miststück
bitch = das Weibsstück [ugs.]
bitch = die Zicke [ugs.]

Source: http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lan...=&search=bitch

magnuskn · 2011-03-06, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

bitch = das Miststück
bitch = das Weibsstück [ugs.]
bitch = die Zicke [ugs.]

Source: http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lan...=&search=bitch

You already admitted missing the mysognist meaning of the word.

Also, you are still wrong.

Natsuki Hyuga · 2011-03-06, 07:43

Hmm...

@Father Hentai, when Bitch is used in terms of describing a woman, it most likely tends to have insulting connotation. And I definitely can say that most likely, sensitive women will throw their laptop to your face if you're using this to them, if not insulting you back with obscenities. Though easygoing ones are different nowadays.

Taking from Dictionary.com (I'm taking the meaning used to describe woman specificallly):

Bitch

Slang .
a. malicious, unpleasant, selfish person, especially a woman.
b. a lewd woman.

Of course, if what you really want to say she is 'forcing', 'aggressive' type of woman... Then that is different. Anyways, two cents from me.

/goes off to finish her darned research for real now.

Irisiel · 2011-03-06, 07:58

Oh for... Sheryl wasn't wrong or a bitch. Incorporating amateurs in such advanced performances such as air performances always carries a risk, I would imagine that it's even more so inside (walls, floor and ceiling in the way, not to mention cables, suspended walkways and lighting fixtures), over an audience while holographic scenery is switching all around them like a kaleidoscope, and music is on at deafening decibels.

On top of that, Sheryl suffered from fold sickness and jet-lag (and later, we learn that she always have the V-type infection, it's just more bearable when she's "healthy"), and went through a press conference immediately upon arriving. Is it any wonder that she snaps? Notice that she snaps at Cathy and not the flight team; she went directly to the organiser of the air show and asked her to cut it out.

It is also not her job to evacuate civilians from an incredible cramped concert hall, before anyone brings it up. Apparently, there are people educated for that (the "pros" she's leaving things to, probably security guards and the like) that could probably evacuate the building without panicked squashing and with some semblance of order.

It is Alto who doesn't really get the professional part. First he improvises, blows it, and then everyone else has to improvise until the next act (Sheryl telling him to fly, Michael ordering the other flyers to flank them). He shows us exactly what Sheryl was afraid of happening; minus the injuries/deaths if he hadn't caught Sheryl in time/crashed into the audience.

Sheryl flippantly tells Cathy to tone down the flying stunts and that the audience is there to see Sheryl Nome. Had things gone as Sheryl requested, Alto wouldn't have nearly injured/killed her. Alto realises this, just watch Ranka's concert in Triangler when he says that they can't mess up. There is no room for ad-libbing when the wings are on and the audience is below.

Plus, words like bitch, slut and whore have always had a sexist and misogynistic slant to them, even when we've started to use them to refer to men, they were originally used to make sure that women knew their places (in the kitchen, demure, silent, pretty, agreeable and always backing the men up and popping out kids within marriage, and of course, they are not to enjoy sex, no way! What do they think they are? Humans? Ha! No way).

On the topic of Cathy, remember that she calls Alto an idiot as he's flying around like a fool? Cathy might not like Sheryl's delivery of statement, but she does realise what Sheryl meant in that moment.

It ties in a bit with the communication sub-theme of the series, in this case, it showed that even if a statement is delivered in a hostile tone, it doesn't make the statement invalid in itself. We are just more likely to discard it.

So can we please stop using bitch/slut/whore/other misogynistic word to refer to Sheryl and Ranka? I don't call Ranka names, I would prefer that others show the same courtesy and do not call Sheryl names. Call them fools and idiots, but please do not use gendered insults. Thank you.

Edit: Others seems to have gotten to it before me.

Father Hentai · 2011-03-06, 07:59

I don't think that magnus is a woman still he feels upset.

However. The translators used the same word as I do to describe her as a

a. malicious, unpleasant, selfish person, especially a woman:

http://img140.imageshack.us/f/fairyofthegalaxy.jpg/

And that is how it was meant.

wisteria233 · 2011-03-06, 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

I don't think that magnus is a woman still he feels upset.

However. The translators used the same word as I do to describe her as a

a. malicious, unpleasant, selfish person, especially a woman:

http://img140.imageshack.us/f/fairyofthegalaxy.jpg/

And that is how it was meant.

Just because translators use that term doesn't make it right. Besides that's not a direct translation of what Cathy said.

magnuskn · 2011-03-06, 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

I don't think that magnus is a woman still he feels upset.

I can still get upset at mysoginistic comments. It's my right as a ( hopefully ) decent human being.

Irisiel · 2011-03-06, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Just because translators use that term doesn't make it right. Besides that's not a direct translation of what Cathy said.

I tried to translate it with my Japanese dictionary, from what I can tell, Cathy simply means that Sheryl's Galactic Fairy name is simply a mistake made by being dazzled by Sheryl's glamour (or something like that). I don't hear any of the Japanese derogatory words that usually translates into "bitch" in that sentence, but then again, Cathy is mumbled quite fast so maybe I missed it.

And one does not have to be female to think that using bitch/whore/slut is wrong.

Father Hentai · 2011-03-06, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisiel

Oh for... Sheryl wasn't wrong or a bitch. Incorporating amateurs in such advanced performances such as air performances always carries a risk, I would imagine that it's even more so inside (walls, floor and ceiling in the way, not to mention cables, suspended walkways and lighting fixtures), over an audience while holographic scenery is switching all around them like a kaleidoscope, and music is on at deafening decibels.

While I do agree that the results give Sheryl correct I have to say that errors can also happen to pros. As an example I take the macronized soldiers on Galliva IV, when Ranka hyped them, as well as the soldier when Sheryl sneaked into the Quarter bridge or even the Squad members of Altos flight team at N.U.N.S. . Unknown to Sheryl at the beginning, Michel and Lucca are part of these students. When talking of them as unqualified amateurs we are diminishing their professionalism as flyers/pilots. Ok, on Luccas part I won't go into further details because it would fit as amateurs but not on Michels part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisiel

On top of that, Sheryl suffered from fold sickness and jet-lag (and later, we learn that she always have the V-type infection, it's just more bearable when she's "healthy"), and went through a press conference immediately upon arriving. Is it any wonder that she snaps? Notice that she snaps at Cathy and not the flight team; she went directly to the organiser of the air show and asked her to cut it out.

What has her disease to do that she is an unpleasant and selfish person at the beginning of the series? Added: O.k. Jet lag and fold sickness may be an argument but this does not mean that she has to be that upset about using students.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisiel

It is also not her job to evacuate civilians from an incredible cramped concert hall, before anyone brings it up. Apparently, there are people educated for that (the "pros" she's leaving things to, probably security guards and the like) that could probably evacuate the building without panicked squashing and with some semblance of order.

I agree that you are correct that it is not her job to do so, but would you see it as a basic obligation to at least support these guys?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisiel

Plus, words like bitch, slut and whore have always had a sexist and misogynistic slant to them, even when we've started to use them to refer to men, they were originally used to make sure that women knew their places (in the kitchen, demure, silent, pretty, agreeable and always backing the men up and popping out kids within marriage, and of course, they are not to enjoy sex, no way! What do they think they are? Humans? Ha! No way).

I will take note of this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisiel

On the topic of Cathy, remember that she calls Alto an idiot as he's flying around like a fool? Cathy might not like Sheryl's delivery of statement, but she does realise what Sheryl meant in that moment.

Yes one idiot. But only because one idiot is in the team the others are idiots as well? I repeat again. Mistakes can also happen to pros. Just have them one moment of lack in their concentration and they make mistsakes as well. The more important thing is that you are capable to improvise.

Sidenote: We are by any means far away from the Romance theme of the series. This fits more into the Sheryl Nome character thread now.

wisteria233 · 2011-03-06, 09:39

Umm the mistake that Alto made was a mistake that a pro wouldn't make. Alto made that mistake because he wanted to show off, which isn't professional. If he had stuck to the decided flight routine then he wouldn't have made the mistake.

magnuskn · 2011-03-06, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Umm the mistake that Alto made was a mistake that a pro wouldn't make. Alto made that mistake because he wanted to show off, which isn't professional. If he had stuck to the decided flight routine then he wouldn't have made the mistake.

That's what I've been trying to explain, in the sense that Sheryl was right to be worried about working with amateurs. But apparently FH doesn't get it.

Yot-chan · 2011-03-06, 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

Well hello everyone, it's been awhile.

All I wanted to say is, "told you so!" Ah, the countless and endless debates finally pay off.

- twi

Spoiler for movie ending:

magnuskn · 2011-03-06, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Spoiler for movie ending:

Spoiler for spoiler:

Yot-chan · 2011-03-06, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I am beginning to think that a good round of "I told you so"'s is really necessary at this point. I thought one day of gloating would be enough, but it seems there needs to be some heavy handed "We were right, you were wrong"s are beginning to be in order to get our point across. Maybe we should include even some "neener neener!"s. ^^

But...but...YOU YOURSELF castigated justavisitor a while back for supposedly "gloating" when the Shaloom stuff turned out to be false.

You wouldn't want to be...GASP!...a HYPOCRITE, would you?

magnuskn · 2011-03-06, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

But...but...YOU YOURSELF castigated justavisitor a while back for supposedly "gloating" when the Shaloom stuff turned out to be false.

You wouldn't want to be...GASP!...a HYPOCRITE, would you?

Hey, I said one day of gloating was enough. Initially. Not my fault suddenly we get peope turning up who say stuff like "Sheryl was taking advantage of Alto" and invent things out of thin air to "bolster" their arguments.

And, basically, the triangle is over. No need to make snide comments because you are a secret Ranka-fag.

Yot-chan · 2011-03-06, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Hey, I said one day of gloating was enough. Initially. Not my fault suddenly we get peope turning up who say stuff like "Sheryl was taking advantage of Alto" and invent things out of thin air to "bolster" their arguments.

And, basically, the triangle is over. No need to make snide comments because you are a secret Ranka-fag.

Not so secret now that Ranka INVITED us to "open" her...

Bukkake Natto's got NOTHIN' on THIS movie!

magnuskn · 2011-03-06, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Not so secret now that Ranka INVITED us to "open" her...

Bukkake Natto's got NOTHIN' on THIS movie!

I'd... rather not investigate what that is.

Yot-chan · 2011-03-06, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I'd... rather not investigate what that is.

I told you...

"OPEN RANKA!!"

magnuskn · 2011-03-06, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

I told you...

"OPEN RANKA!!"

I was talking about the "Bukkake Natto"

2011-03-06, 07:58	Link #1085
Irisiel Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	Oh for... Sheryl wasn't wrong or a bitch. Incorporating amateurs in such advanced performances such as air performances always carries a risk, I would imagine that it's even more so inside (walls, floor and ceiling in the way, not to mention cables, suspended walkways and lighting fixtures), over an audience while holographic scenery is switching all around them like a kaleidoscope, and music is on at deafening decibels. On top of that, Sheryl suffered from fold sickness and jet-lag (and later, we learn that she always have the V-type infection, it's just more bearable when she's "healthy"), and went through a press conference immediately upon arriving. Is it any wonder that she snaps? Notice that she snaps at Cathy and not the flight team; she went directly to the organiser of the air show and asked her to cut it out. It is also not her job to evacuate civilians from an incredible cramped concert hall, before anyone brings it up. Apparently, there are people educated for that (the "pros" she's leaving things to, probably security guards and the like) that could probably evacuate the building without panicked squashing and with some semblance of order. It is Alto who doesn't really get the professional part. First he improvises, blows it, and then everyone else has to improvise until the next act (Sheryl telling him to fly, Michael ordering the other flyers to flank them). He shows us exactly what Sheryl was afraid of happening; minus the injuries/deaths if he hadn't caught Sheryl in time/crashed into the audience. Sheryl flippantly tells Cathy to tone down the flying stunts and that the audience is there to see Sheryl Nome. Had things gone as Sheryl requested, Alto wouldn't have nearly injured/killed her. Alto realises this, just watch Ranka's concert in Triangler when he says that they can't mess up. There is no room for ad-libbing when the wings are on and the audience is below. Plus, words like bitch, slut and whore have always had a sexist and misogynistic slant to them, even when we've started to use them to refer to men, they were originally used to make sure that women knew their places (in the kitchen, demure, silent, pretty, agreeable and always backing the men up and popping out kids within marriage, and of course, they are not to enjoy sex, no way! What do they think they are? Humans? Ha! No way). On the topic of Cathy, remember that she calls Alto an idiot as he's flying around like a fool? Cathy might not like Sheryl's delivery of statement, but she does realise what Sheryl meant in that moment. It ties in a bit with the communication sub-theme of the series, in this case, it showed that even if a statement is delivered in a hostile tone, it doesn't make the statement invalid in itself. We are just more likely to discard it. So can we please stop using bitch/slut/whore/other misogynistic word to refer to Sheryl and Ranka? I don't call Ranka names, I would prefer that others show the same courtesy and do not call Sheryl names. Call them fools and idiots, but please do not use gendered insults. Thank you. Edit: Others seems to have gotten to it before me. Last edited by Irisiel; 2011-03-06 at 07:59. Reason: Late to the party is late

2011-03-06, 07:59	Link #1086
Father Hentai Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Munich, Germany	I don't think that magnus is a woman still he feels upset. However. The translators used the same word as I do to describe her as a a. malicious, unpleasant, selfish person, especially a woman: http://img140.imageshack.us/f/fairyofthegalaxy.jpg/ And that is how it was meant. __________________ Born the same day as Satoshi Urushihara... Ill fated?

2011-03-06, 09:39	Link #1091
wisteria233 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York, NY	Umm the mistake that Alto made was a mistake that a pro wouldn't make. Alto made that mistake because he wanted to show off, which isn't professional. If he had stuck to the decided flight routine then he wouldn't have made the mistake.