(L) Sword Art Online - Light Novel Discussion

[Javiersansano]

Originally Posted by StellarCell

Which novel do you think Kirito is the most badass in?

Spoiler for ggo, fairy dance, mother's rosario don't read if you didn't finish:

I personally think it's either GGO, SAO or Mother's Rosario

GGO because come on, the guy uses a lightsaber in a world of guns, cutting bullets. how badass was that? He even saved Sinon at the end RL.

SAO because, obviously he beat the demon king Kayaba. )

Mother's Rosario is also a notable example because of the OSS he developed, blocked magic in a fix action of strikes. Took on 30 people by himself and Klein.

Fairy Dance is just meh~ Except for the illusion thingy that he went berserk with, and how he learned the mechanics of the game quickly. Other than that, he almost got his a** woopt by Oberon.

Haven't finished Alicization yet, but I have a feeling he'll be badass in it too.

And his fight against the salamander general wasn't badass?

[StellarCell]

Originally Posted by Javiersansano

And his fight against the salamander general wasn't badass?

Ah true, I missed that..

[richardtengcy]

Spoiler for Best Battle:

I wanted to see Kirito vs Yuuki where he lost to Yuuki

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by richardtengcy

Spoiler for Best Battle:

I wanted to see Kirito vs Yuuki where he lost to Yuuki

Spoiler for reply:

not to me.... it just felt that Kiirito only gave 50% effort all in all....

[Javiersansano]

Originally Posted by richardtengcy

Spoiler for Best Battle:

I wanted to see Kirito vs Yuuki where he lost to Yuuki

Spoiler for yeah...:

it would be a good fight to see, but with the way it was described in the novel, it didn't feel like a fight Kirito "lived"... He gave his all, even with one sword, but he didn't "live" it like the fights in SAO, against General Eugene, against the guardians in Yggdrassil, XaXa in GGO, and further and further

If it's not a fight in which he fights for something beyond fun, then he won't fight at 100%... or more likely, in those fightts, he goes over 100%, like at the end of SAO, where he surpasses the system's limits

[richardtengcy]

Originally Posted by Javiersansano

Spoiler for yeah...:

it would be a good fight to see, but with the way it was described in the novel, it didn't feel like a fight Kirito "lived"... He gave his all, even with one sword, but he didn't "live" it like the fights in SAO, against General Eugene, against the guardians in Yggdrassil, XaXa in GGO, and further and further

If it's not a fight in which he fights for something beyond fun, then he won't fight at 100%... or more likely, in those fightts, he goes over 100%, like at the end of SAO, where he surpasses the system's limits

Spoiler for Kirito vs Yuuki:

Totally understandable, i think he gave 100% but not over 100% compared to life and death scenarion in SAO but it's still nice to see that someone who can beat Kirito 1vs1 where they pit their best skill against each other. The only regret in this battle is that Kirito didn`t used 2 hand sword style to battle Yuuki.

[StellarCell]

Originally Posted by ronelm2000

Spoiler for reply:

not to me.... it just felt that Kiirito only gave 50% effort all in all....

Spoiler for reply:

Kirito mentioned that if Yuuki was in SAO she would be given the Dual Wield ability.

Kirito could only win if he used Dual Wield in that battle, so in other words Yuuki would beat him 1 vs 1. [1 handed]

[NoirX]

Originally Posted by StellarCell

Spoiler for reply:

Kirito mentioned that if Yuuki was in SAO she would be given the Dual Wield ability.

Kirito could only win if he used Dual Wield in that battle, so in other words Yuuki would beat him 1 vs 1. [1 handed]

The reason Yuuki can beat Kirito is that she "lived" out the fight which gives her the speed surpassing normal people who only dives in. In that case she was superior to Kirito in her censoric control since she's using a full-body full-dive machine.

[willx]

So, I just had a thought about the latest arc, Alicization, that I couldn't quite suspend my disbelief and wasn't sure if anyone had the same feeling..

Basically the author has stated that the premise that the gov't is trying to design "bottom-up AI" so that they can be used for military purposes and that's the whole reason UW was developed and all this other stuff. That's the setting. Fine.. -- Except I don't buy it.

Why would you need "bottom-up AI" for this? Actually, it's the opposite, you'd want AI that would mimic a "perfect soldier" nothing more, nothing less. A full "bottom-up AI" for military purposes is actually worse.. It's like adding extra/unknown factors to a tool like a "drill" and making it unpredictable.. That's like the absolute OPPOSITE of what the military wants..

[lightbringer]

Because sometimes a perfect soldier must think outside the box on the battlefield and react to unexpected situations. That's where traditional AI might make a mistake due to lack of information, but a "true" AI would be able to make the best call given what it knows.

[richardtengcy]

Originally Posted by willx

So, I just had a thought about the latest arc, Alicization, that I couldn't quite suspend my disbelief and wasn't sure if anyone had the same feeling..

Basically the author has stated that the premise that the gov't is trying to design "bottom-up AI" so that they can be used for military purposes and that's the whole reason UW was developed and all this other stuff. That's the setting. Fine.. -- Except I don't buy it.

Why would you need "bottom-up AI" for this? Actually, it's the opposite, you'd want AI that would mimic a "perfect soldier" nothing more, nothing less. A full "bottom-up AI" for military purposes is actually worse.. It's like adding extra/unknown factors to a tool like a "drill" and making it unpredictable.. That's like the absolute OPPOSITE of what the military wants..

Kind of remind me of Skynet in terminator....gaining self-awareness and fighting against human that creates them. I am totally against using "bottom-up" AI in weapons but if used on bots like personal maid or something, I wouldn`t mind. Something like a cross-references to "CHOBIT"

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by StellarCell

Which novel do you think Kirito is the most badass in?

This is a really tough call. Kirito is simply badass everywhere he appears (and he knows Kung Fu). For me, it's a toss-up between GGO and SAO, but if you had to pin me down I'd vote for GGO.

[Netto Azure]

Originally Posted by lightbringer

Because sometimes a perfect soldier must think outside the box on the battlefield and react to unexpected situations. That's where traditional AI might make a mistake due to lack of information, but a "true" AI would be able to make the best call given what it knows.

This is it pretty much. They just want to basically replace soldiers in the battlefield, and as per the traditional limits of Top-Down AI's they can't make calls outside of "their programmed parameter" so to speak.

[willx]

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

This is it pretty much. They just want to basically replace soldiers in the battlefield, and as per the traditional limits of Top-Down AI's they can't make calls outside of "their programmed parameter" so to speak.

I understand what you're saying, but it's just not convincing. I'm saying the military wouldn't want "uncertain" tools. A "top-down AI" designed to emulate a perfectly trained and disciplined soldier, utilized in aerial drones is probably ideal.

You might think otherwise, but practically speaking an army is only effective when it's soldiers don't individually make decisions or ask too many questions.

EDITED: I meant "top down"

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by richardtengcy

Kind of remind me of Skynet in terminator....gaining self-awareness and fighting against human that creates them. I am totally against using "bottom-up" AI in weapons but if used on bots like personal maid or something, I wouldn`t mind. Something like a cross-references to "CHOBIT"

and once they achieve sentience, it would be call slavery.

Originally Posted by Adigard

The Eve Online meta-game is fairly vile with denial of service attacks on player's IP during important moments, spying on Skype conversations, sending someone over to flip the power circuit off... but even there you're unlikely to actually kill a player over a MMO game.

But then again, you certainly do get the rare unhinged gamer who can't differentiate real from virtual who kill their fellow gamer over pixels. So it's certainly a viable threat. Having said that though, the odds of a random MMO gamer being able to stop a unhinged crazy from killing him with a gun when either plugged into a VR world, or not, is probably about the same.

i thought about playing EVE since i like trade stimulation games mix with piracy. but just don't have the time for it.

PS. anyone know of a game similar to EVE but for offline (not mmog).

Originally Posted by ronelm2000

Plus the fact that I said "premise". But why did we need to disclose important spoilers?

because this is a tread for LN discussion with a "spoiler at your own risk" warning.

[ttdestroy]

Originally Posted by willx

I understand what you're saying, but it's just not convincing. I'm saying the military wouldn't want "uncertain" tools. A bottom-up AI designed to emulate a perfectly trained and disciplined soldier, utilized in aerial drones is probably ideal.

You might think otherwise, but practically speaking an army is only effective when it's soldiers don't individually make decisions or ask too many questions.

I agree this is practically asking for an extremely intelligent AI to "go rogue". High Command doesn't want any involvement with something with a fairly significant propensity to go off task. But then again depending on the mission it might just be a spec ops weapons they'll drop into a hot zone with no hope of recovering it, just to let it cause damage.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by willx

I understand what you're saying, but it's just not convincing. I'm saying the military wouldn't want "uncertain" tools. A "top-down AI" designed to emulate a perfectly trained and disciplined soldier, utilized in aerial drones is probably ideal.

You might think otherwise, but practically speaking an army is only effective when it's soldiers don't individually make decisions or ask too many questions.

EDITED: I meant "top down"

The thing is, they're essentially looking to replace fighter pilots with AIs. To do that they would need to be as smart, and flexible as fighter pilots, which would basically require a bottom-up AI.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Krono

The thing is, they're essentially looking to replace fighter pilots with AIs. To do that they would need to be as smart, and flexible as fighter pilots, which would basically require a bottom-up AI.

But such and AI is conscious of its own existence, so it knows it could die in combat like a human pilot does. Besides, why would sentient AIs fight a war for humans? What do they get in return? And if they are forced they would know they are forced, which means they would turn on us at any time.

So there's no way that would work. It's a perfect recipe for disaster waiting to happen.

[NoirX]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

But such and AI is conscious of its own existence, so it knows it could die in combat like a human pilot does. Besides, why would sentient AIs fight a war for humans? What do they get in return? And if they are forced they would know they are forced, which means they would turn on us at any time.

So there's no way that would work. It's a perfect recipe for disaster waiting to happen.

If the AIs turn on the humans, they could be simply dealt with deletion. No matter where the AIs are, they are connected to the main operation system that will control them so if they rebel it'd be noticeable and could be dealt with.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by NoirX

If the AIs turn on the humans, they could be simply dealt with deletion.

If I'm a sentient AI and I'm being forced to do something under threat of deletion, that means I'm a slave. And slaves would ultimately fight for their freedom at some point, one way or another. It's a certainty of the world.

Like I said, however you look at it, it just wouldn't work. It would be Matrix all over again.