US Elections 2012 Part I: The Primaries/Caucus

[Ithekro]

Okay, this I am conflicted on:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...colony-by-2020

Gingrich promises US moon colony by 2020


This is more or less what I want in some fashion, and think we should already have by now (1969 was a while ago). But....it is Newt.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Okay, this I am conflicted on:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...colony-by-2020

Gingrich promises US moon colony by 2020


This is more or less what I want in some fashion, and think we should already have by now (1969 was a while ago). But....it is Newt.

So now he's promising us the moon.....

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

So now he's promising us the moon.....

Pfft, it is obvious that the Anaheim Electronics is lobbying Gingrich about this so that they could have their hq on the moon .

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

Pfft, it is obvious that the Anaheim Electronics is lobbying Gingrich about this so that they could have their hq on the moon .

If Newt can garauntee me a date with Nina Purpleton...he just might get my vote.

[Ithekro]

I don't think she's been born yet....

[Vena]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Okay, this I am conflicted on:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...colony-by-2020

Gingrich promises US moon colony by 2020


This is more or less what I want in some fashion, and think we should already have by now (1969 was a while ago). But....it is Newt.

He's pandering. Republicans will rip the scientific budget to shreds and we'll be lucky to get a bus to go down the street.

In other news, I want BullMoose! Someone resurrect T.R..

[solomon]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

If Newt can garauntee me a date with Nina Purpleton...he just might get my vote.

This made my day....Nina (rawr rawr)

..........


American's couldnt take T.R.'s awesomeness today.

[ganbaru]

Florida's Rubio a star, but an unlikely VP pick
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...80P09620120126

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Okay, this I am conflicted on:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...colony-by-2020

Gingrich promises US moon colony by 2020


This is more or less what I want in some fashion, and think we should already have by now (1969 was a while ago). But....it is Newt.

Is the word "lie" or "bullshit" found anywhere in that article?

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

Is the word "lie" or "bullshit" found anywhere in that article?

'I don't know, 'Daydreaming''might also fit.

[Rozen Van Kaizer]

$15 Trillion in debt and they want to go to the moon? Who lets this country borrow their money!?

[monsta666]

I doubt America will reach the moon by 2020. They have retired their space shuttles and have to bring in a new fleet of rockets. In addition one needs to consider their economic situation. A $15.3 trillion debt plus a $1.3 trillion annual deficit. Furthermore Gingrich has suggested extensive tax cuts which will (despite Republications assertion to the opposite) will decrease government revenues resulting in a larger deficit. This will be particularly true if Gingrich follows the Republican party line of increasing military expenditures.

I cannot see how he can achieve all of these goals. I suspect this is simply electoral showmanship. He is just making a bunch of promises he has no hope of fulfilling in order to gain votes. It is almost as crazy as former runner Bachmann who promised to deliver $2 gallon gasoline which is totally impossible to achieve barring a major recession.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I don't think she's been born yet....

Way to crush my fantasy...always with the negative waves.

[flying ^]

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

what are yall's opinion about Keystone XL being shelved by Obama?

from one side...

IT'S JOBS! WE NEED MORE JOBS!

from the other side...

it's a country-wide disaster waiting to happen and not worth the risk

Originally Posted by Vexx

The so-called "jobs" are short-term and specific, and would mostly be filled by people who already have jobs.
The economic losses to farmland, ecological resources, personal property loss and damage - are enormous.
We *already* get oil/gas from that direction - it goes through other pipes and delivery trucks.

The XL pipeline is pretty much a boondoggle that channels a lot of money into a very few pockets... pockets that show no sign of investing it back in either the corporations or the country.

Originally Posted by Ledgem

I have no qualms about it being set back. I don't think it would generate many long-term jobs (unless an environmental disaster happened - then the government would be paying for people to monitor and clean it up). The pipeline would be run by a Canadian company, so most of the money to be made from the project wouldn't even be going to America. Basically, America would be risking its resources, and a Canadian company stands to benefit. It's not that I have anything against Canada, it just seems like a silly thing to push so heavily for that we're willing to accept it even without waiting for environmental assessments and planning to finish their work.

omfg are you libs willing to cede North American energy security to.......... 800 pound gorilla named CHINA?!

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by flying ^

omfg are you libs willing to cede North American energy security to.......... 800 pound gorilla named CHINA?!

False dichotomy... its not either "this pipeline" or "china wins". Work a little harder please. And I'm an Eisenhower/Bullmoose Republican... so stop assigning labels and start doing some real analysis, you know - *thinking*. The GOP is doing its best to prop up oil/gas by blocking all research/investment/etc into other technologies. The oil/gas that would go through that boondoggle pipeline *already* gets here through other routes. I know that because I used to work for Amoco in the 90s for a time on their Canadian region oilfields. Meanwhile, we've *already just about lost* to China in the solar manufacturing realm because of that GOP intransigence against anything that might disturb the flow of money into a few pockets.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Rozen Van Kaizer

$15 Trillion in debt and they want to go to the moon? Who lets this country borrow their money!?

The space program has more then paid for itself in innovation (GPS, being one of them). So spending money on the space program is not a bad idea.

[Ithekro]

Do recall that the Bush plan was to go back to the Moon by 2020 using the Constellation system and Orion. The start of a colony is a little out there, but the Russians are talking about it and inviting others to the party. China is said to have similar goals with their rapidly advancing (or catching up) space program.

Orion is still being worked on even if Constellation was scrapped by budget cuts and troubles with the rocket. The Obama plan seems to be more of handing over orbital launches of people to civilian companies (which should start soon with the Dragon spacecraft) and leave NASA to extra-orbital work. His proposed goal was a near-Earth Asteroid as "We've been to the Moon". With the long range goal of Mars still on the table. These extra-orbital projects would use Orion as the command module that can be adapted to other components.

The ISS is to remain in orbit and operated until at least 2020. I still think it should be used as a starting point for larger orbital construction projects. Either as a piece of something else, the construction platform for something larger, or as a base of operations for something larger. Be it another space station, an orbital power station, or a spaceship (as oppose to the spacecraft we've been using).

[Vena]

Originally Posted by monsta666

I doubt America will reach the moon by 2020. They have retired their space shuttles and have to bring in a new fleet of rockets. In addition one needs to consider their economic situation. A $15.3 trillion debt plus a $1.3 trillion annual deficit. Furthermore Gingrich has suggested extensive tax cuts which will (despite Republications assertion to the opposite) will decrease government revenues resulting in a larger deficit. This will be particularly true if Gingrich follows the Republican party line of increasing military expenditures.

Thank god! The space shuttles were useless, expensive contract embezzlements/corruption that couldn't have died any sooner. The entire "pitch" to them was that they'd be "safer" and "cheaper", the former is arguable but the latter is a joke of epic proportions. The space shuttle's upkeep cost more than multiple Apollo Rockets + Mission and then there was the initial building investment that also heavily out matched the price of the Apollo Rockets. The entire reason for introducing it was under a false pretense.

The sooner they scrap the entire flawed idea and build real spaceships the better. Heck, at this point, bigger Apollo Rockets would be better. While they're at it they need to trash that idiotic space station and rebuild the original "block" station. The current station is a piece of garbage that is just as smelly of corruption as the shuttle. The former station was designed by block-architecture and could be expanded effectively indefinitely (like legos) whereas the current one is tight and awkwardly shaped cylinders that do not lend to expansion or much of anything for that matter.

Ooh, while we're on the subject: Linear accelerator in the desert instead of that idiotic launch pad in Cape Canaveral. Shuttles should only be using fuel when they are well beyond the atmosphere where they cannot be conveniently catapulted to maximum speeds without any sort of burden on the shuttle itself to carry more fuel just so that it can carry said extra fuel and itself into space.

Damn, NASA just annoys me with all its bullshit, red tape, and leading scientists who apparently have utterly no grasp of common economic principle.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Vena

He's pandering. Republicans will rip the scientific budget to shreds and we'll be lucky to get a bus to go down the street.

This is a really insightful comment, and I think it's absolutely right. I thought it was a bit weird for Newt Gingrich to come up with the moon idea, but your remark made me realize why: the Republicans have never been big on spending for science. Unless Mr. Gingrich intends to make NASA a part of the military, there's no way that he would be able to get it funded. Even if he could... aren't we currently trying to balance the budget?

Pandering, indeed.

Originally Posted by flying ^

omfg are you libs willing to cede North American energy security to.......... 800 pound gorilla named CHINA?!

"Libs" lol. I've got news for you: North America currently doesn't have any energy security. Even if the people manning the Keystone pipeline were American, the oil produced from that project would not get us even close to removing our dependence from Saudi Arabia and the other OPEC nations.

Want to know how we can attain energy security? Provide funding to alternative energy sources so that we can be in charge of our own energy, and consume less. Don't like Toyota Priuses because they're made by a Japanese company? Then keep your eye on Tesla Motors, an American company that makes 100% electric cars. And remember: nuclear power is currently the safest, cleanest option that we have at the moment, so don't oppose that, either.

Cede energy security to China... hah!

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by flying ^

omfg are you libs willing to cede North American energy security to.......... 800 pound gorilla named CHINA?!

I am canadian and even I have issue with this pipeline. It isn't about being liberal or not, it's about evaluating the pro and con. And for now I haven't seen much arguments for the projects but a lot against it.