Tales of the Abyss - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[yolin.shana]

Originally Posted by kujoe

Natalia for her "Asch is the real Luke" bit as if her time with Luke doesn't matter all of a sudden,

Well, considering she had spent those seven years trying to make him remember that promise (-> to make him become who he was before), is it really that surprising?

About Tear, I think she learned about Luke being a replica when Asch came to save her.

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by yolin.shana

Well, considering she had spent those seven years trying to make him remember that promise (-> to make him become who he was before), is it really that surprising?

No, of course not. That's still bound to hurt though.

We all know that Luke hasn't exactly been a likeable guy, but this event also goes to show how shallow Natalia's caring turns out to be and her flaws as a character. This is also a turning point for her.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by EphemeralDream

Don't you remember when Asche was about to reveal to Luke that he's a replica and Tear said, "No! Dont!" or something to that effect?

She may have suspected but she really did not know much beyond say what Natalia knows. Jade was the one with all the answers not Tear. He suspected something when he heard Luke lost his memories from that kidnapping incident and his suspicions were confirmed more or less when he saw that fon machine and the data. Tear did not put it together until Akzeriuth. .

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by kujoe

No, of course not. That's still bound to hurt though.

We all know that Luke hasn't exactly been a likeable guy, but this event also goes to show how shallow Natalia's caring turns out to be and her flaws as a character. This is also a turning point for her.

Not sure you can call someone who's first instinct was to help suffering people shallow in terms of caring. Certainly true she didn't build up much of a connection to the new Luke since she was focused on trying to bring back the old one. Though kind of the same for Luke since never seemed to interact in a positive manner around her. Kind of expected it would turn out like that with the only thing holding it together (the possibility of regaining the missing memories) fell apart.

Of course kind of the same with Guy just in reverse. Sure he tossed an apology for leaving but he never really tried to talk with Asch either. Can be such a strong support of Luke because Asch and who he is doesn't matter much to Guy. Maybe Asch never had any belief he'd be cared about so wasn't bothered by it.

Both of them more or less have picked their Luke.

Originally Posted by demon_god04

She may have suspected but she really did not know much beyond say what Natalia knows. Jade was the one with all the answers not Tear. He suspected something when he heard Luke lost his memories from that kidnapping incident and his suspicions were confirmed more or less when he saw that fon machine and the data. Tear did not put it together until Akzeriuth. .

Heck maybe Tear just suspected whatever Asch had to say wasn't going to help Luke's already unstable mental state. I mean say what you will about Asch but it probably wasn't going to be something to put Luke's mind at ease. Really may have only just put it together. Unless you have a history with the subject immediate thoughts that someone is a replica probably won't cross your mind.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Heck maybe Tear just suspected whatever Asch had to say wasn't going to help Luke's already unstable mental state. I mean say what you will about Asch but it probably wasn't going to be something to put Luke's mind at ease. Really may have only just put it together. Unless you have a history with the subject immediate thoughts that someone is a replica probably won't cross your mind.

Yeah, and it was also obvious that Tear did not know much of Van's plans either so really you cannot blame much on her, maybe that she could have taken her kill Van schtick more seriously and stuck to her guns but that is about it.

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Not sure you can call someone who's first instinct was to help suffering people shallow in terms of caring. Certainly true she didn't build up much of a connection to the new Luke since she was focused on trying to bring back the old one. Though kind of the same for Luke since never seemed to interact in a positive manner around her. Kind of expected it would turn out like that with the only thing holding it together (the possibility of regaining the missing memories) fell apart.

Of course kind of the same with Guy just in reverse. Sure he tossed an apology for leaving but he never really tried to talk with Asch either. Can be such a strong support of Luke because Asch and who he is doesn't matter much to Guy. Maybe Asch never had any belief he'd be cared about so wasn't bothered by it.

Both of them more or less have picked their Luke.

In a way, it is shallow. But perhaps that may not be the right word.

When Natalia goes on to cite her objections about Guy leaving, the first thing that she thinks about isn't the fact of how Luke acted after Akzeriuth, but rather because he isn't the real one. The real Luke is here, the one from seven years ago, not the replica. That's her mindset regarding this matter.

Like Natalia, Guy has a history with the two of them, as he has been a servant in the Fabre household for a long time now. The difference is, he figures for himself that both are their own selves and it just so happens that he has more brotherly or friendly affection for one over the other.

[demon_god04]

Right, it goes into the mindset of Natalia and Guy. Natalia was very much someone who was desperately clinging onto the past where as Guy was taught by the current Luke to look towards the future instead.

[GreenLama]

This series is getting so good and learning about Asch being replaced by a clone (Luke) and then having been kidnapped by Van and all that, it's just great stuff. This is possibly my favorite current anime series and it seems to be getting better and better as the episodes roll by.

I hope it get's ported the the U.S and dubbed at some point, but it seems as if anime in the states is dying out

[X_Danny_X]

Originally Posted by Momosan

Exactly. Remember, Luke only has the total life experience of a 10 year old I believe. While he was being an ass during the travels, they weren't upset enough to yell then. They were upset that he was doing something he thought was right to save an entire town that ended poorly. Why would anyone get upset over that? Subjective analysis of actions makes this existentialist a sad panda.

Would you scream at your kid if they broke the oven trying to cook you cookies for your birthday? I dunno about you, but I'd respect the intent and explain why their actions were wrong. Tellibg them that they're a piece of garbage and you couldn't think any less of them isn't something a good parent, or a good friend, would do.

might be a little late but this is so true. Luke is totally innocent here and didn't deserve all of this rejection from the group, especially Guy and Natalia who have known him for all these years.

sweet jesus, he trusted a guy that was like a father figure to him. he had no way of knowing he was going to be betrayed. he was used and used in a violent way. the group was blaming him like he was responsible and like he was in on it.

if they were with him, they would of helped i swear of to it. they have no way of knowing such a betrayal would of happen.

it is like blaming Luke for taking Ash's life away for him. Luke had nothing to do with it. Ash should be going after the people who set him up and took away everything he knew. Luke is an innocent party here.

Bastards all of those party members, all of them!!

[GreenLama]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

might be a little late but this is so true. Luke is totally innocent here and didn't deserve all of this rejection from the group, especially Guy and Natalia who have known him for all these years.

sweet jesus, he trusted a guy that was like a father figure to him. he had no way of knowing he was going to be betrayed. he was used and used in a violent way. the group was blaming him like he was responsible and like he was in on it.

if they were with him, they would of helped i swear of to it. they have no way of knowing such a betrayal would of happen.

it is like blaming Luke for taking Ash's life away for him. Luke had nothing to do with it. Ash should be going after the people who set him up and took away everything he knew. Luke is an innocent party here.

Bastards all of those party members, all of them!!

I definatly agree, it isn't like Luke asked to be cloned and raised as another person for all these years, he is still the same old Luke they knew and loved so I wonder why there was so much rejection......

I guess maybe shock had something to do with it, but still, I felt so bad for Luke.

[X_Danny_X]

so true, till this day i so much disgust for all those party members there. at least Guy came back, but he should of apologize along with the rest of them to Luke and not vice versa which never did happen. seeing he had to prove himself and gain their trust made me boil

i know he was a brat but damn, blaming him and saying that he was responsible for the destruction and death of village and its people is huge, especially when you know Luke trying to do the exact opposite and being fooled by his father figure. that's alot and huge blow in shot

[kitten320]

I can't sympathize with Luke at all so I take groups side. Luke brought it upon himself. He never cared about anyone just himslef, he is self centred idiot who needed a good and hard lesson. The group always tried to be kind and understanding to him, trying to make him see yet he never listened and continued to be self centred and egoistic. I would lose all respect for them if they wre to forgive Luke so easily after he had killed thousands of people with his own hands despite being said many times to stop! He deserves all the blame and I don't see a single reason for anyone to apologize to him, they did nothing wrong. It is he who has to aplogize first and try to get their trust back. He has lived in this world for 7 years already and should undesrtand what is right and what is wrong, he is not a baby!
He became a heartless bastard like that because everyone were pamparing him, it is time to grow up!

At least it looks like he finally understood his mistakes and is willing to make things right this time, I can only wish him luck because he has a lot of work to do to get his respect back.

I don't see why everyone are hating Natalie here, wouldn't you also want to stay with the person you loved? Luke was never same as Ash, she said it herself. They are too different people. And wouldn't you want to learn more about the person who was missing for so long? Wouldn't you want to suporrt him who had suffered for 7 years? Ash suffered for 7 god damn years while Luke got abondened just for a day! And in comparison to Asch, Luke fully deserved that suffering!

The one I feel sorry about is Ash, he had everything taken away from him. His home, family, friends... it would be way to cruel if Natalie were to stay with Luke as well. I can't fully agree with Guy's desicion to go after Luke but then again I can see from where that thinking is coming so can't blame him either.

Even though Ash keeps firm facade, that dream proves that he still is very hurt and still cares about his past friends. He needs them...

Luke does need them too and if he will apologize, I'm sure everyone will accept him back and will start from the begining.