[Manga] Naruto Chapter 571 Discussion

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by james0246

And this is why they should have never been included in the fight in the first place (something I said weeks ago when they "sprang" into action).

-But james, who would we then have to provide us with the necessary exposition about how awesome these turn of events are and how Naruto's totally one dandy S.O.B in that new cloak/sarcasm?

-To be honest, I sadly expected more out of Kakashi and Guy. Heck, the least they could have done is go and get themselves half-dead or something so it serves as a more potent motivation for Naruto to hurry along with his fight lest he increase the casualties.

[Ero-Senn1n]

I waited a long time to see how will Kishimoto finish the kyuubi-mode design of Naruto, as his previous design was something unfinished, but my guess was that it would be finished by sage mode. Now i wonder if adding sage mode can make this design even more epic than this, because i think it already looks quite cool. I was a bit sceptical because i didn't like the design of Sasuke's new EMS eyes, exptected better.

Originally Posted by Shay

Wow! Fucking amazing chapter!

Though Tobi doesn't appear to be too troubled by Naruto's new skills. Wonder what he meant by, 'If he wanted to kill them it would be perfect'?

What does he have up that sleeve of his????

It seem that when he said that he switched from capture mode to killing mode. I mean the combined chakra ball fired at Naruto does look like aimed at killing him. I think Tobi realized that he can't capture them both so he switched to plan-B where he kills Naruto and captures the 8-tails. And after that he does the same thing that Kabuto wanted to do: he can use rinnegan and/or Edo Tensei to bring back Naruto and capture the 9-tails safely. Anyway, switching to killer mode is equal as having a powerup, so in the next chapter Naruto will most likely be in trouble, also his 5 minutes will run out, i guess that he will have to come with another trick to beat Madara, maybe something that has more sage mode involved than kyuubi mode, or the combination of the two finally appears.


It's becoming difficult to imagine how can Sasuke be equal to the current Naruto, but i probably was thinking the same thing after Naruto beat Gaara and learned the rasengan, and then in the VotE fight Sasuke won. In the VotE fight Naruto was actually dumbed down, his boss summon was simply left out, which was then his strongest move, so if the author wants to do that this time he would have to remove Naruto's full kyuubi-mode, which would be kinda sad and annoying.

Originally Posted by Merilyn Mensola

i wonder if Sasuke is going to have a Rinnegan..to power up..

I just remembered Orochimaru talking about Sasuke: he said that Sasuke has even more potential than Itachi. And recently we learned not only that Kabuto and Orochimaru have experimented with combining the 1st hokage's cells and sharingan eyes (using Danzou as test subject) but also that their knowledge about the biology of the Narutoverse is so good that without reading the secret tablet written by the sage of 6 paths they have predicted that sharingan can turn into rinnegan somehow. We also learned that Kabuto also wants Sasuke's body, it seems that Sasuke's body is so special that Kabuto needs it to achieve some ultimate goal which was probably set by Orochimaru (regardless of whether Kishimoto invented this whole thing before Orochimaru was killed or just now, since in both cases it works as a story). If this is so then maybe Kabuto will become some kind of Dr.Gero from DBZ in this world: the one who creates someone/somthing like Cell was there, he achieves his ultimate goal just to be killed by it/him. Here i assume that Kabuto is not the ultimate enemy type guy who will fight a boss fight against Naruto, but the "evil and mad genius scientist" type who creates the final enemy or upgrades someone (Tobi or Edo-Madara or their combination maybe?) to be the final enemy. And also i assume that the author will not drop the idea that Orochimaru's and Kabuto's final goal will be achieved somehow and it will drive the story forward.
So for example Orochimaru back then after fighting Sasuke in the forest of death had taken some blood sample and had sequenced Sasuke's DNA to discover that his DNA contained some part that indicated the possibility that he can unlock the rinnegan eyes ( as we know even teenagers like Sakura can sequence DNA in the Narutoverse, while in the middle of a war zone ). I don't think that Kabuto's creation will be a modified Sasuke, because Sasuke has to be rescued by Naruto before Kabuto would have a chance of messing up his body and make of him a monster as he did with his own body. But Kabuto has so many DNA samples now, from all the legendary ninja, imagine a creature built that has all the abilities of the past kages and the rinnegan and the sharingan and who knows what else, that would be some crazy shit

Originally Posted by justavisitor

it's an amazing chapter, but it's a bit sad that Kakashi and Gai just become commentators..XD

It's the only good solution, those two have absolutely no chance here. But they have shown us here they are really excellent ninjas by surviving until now. I wonder what could they have done here, my guess is that Kakashi could have used Kamui 2 or 3 times to teleport away some chakra balls, but then fall into coma, then Gai would have opened all 8 gates to save Kakashi, he would probably knock out 1 or even 2 demons (i'm probably overestimating him based on what we saw when he fought Kisame), but then he would die and the 2 knocked out beasts would simply be regenerated by Madara.
BTW Kishimoto always uses commentators to hype up the battles, and i think this trick works quite good. For example Zetsu as the commentator of Sasuke vs Itachi was also explaining what is happening, without his explanations we wouldn't have understood the battle.

[DragoZERO]

That was pretty awesome. I think Naruto's unique form is a result of the Sage thing that was used to seal Kurama or something.

I think I'll have to check out the anime when it catches up to this point.

[HiddenMessage]

Did anyone notice ichi-bi missing from this fight? What happened to it?

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

That much is certain. The only possible chapter left that will reach equal levels in awesome is the eventual Naruto vs. Sasuke fight, where all the chips are down and for the keeps. THIS chapter however, is in my opinion the absolute peak of the Shippuden. It has everything that is great about Naruto all rolled into one chapter and then cranked to level 11 intensity. I don't think it will be surpassed or if it is even possible.

I guess what you find great about Naruto is far different than what I consider great. Naruto's power levels exploding and everything turning into a giant kaiju battle(give Kishi credit for being Genre Savy with the Godzilla move reference) aren't what I would consider great, epic, or badass. Just a lot of glitter and sparkles to cover for the lack of story. Or the ability to write an interesting or clever fight. But giving Naruto another cool new cloak and powerup made a lot of fans happy, so I guess good for Kishi.

And yeah, Gai and Kakashi are simply honoring the time honored tradition of shonen battle commentator. They are simply out of their league. And that backup must be sightseeing or something along the way.

What on earth will Sasuke get to compare to Naruto's latest powerup? Control of the Kyuubi seems like the only counter.

[DragoZERO]

The second Naruto is a clone for Sage Mode. Naruto sure is getting smart.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

I guess what you find great about Naruto is far different than what I consider great.

-You got that right and that's the way it should be. The manga has enough richness in its universe that you're free to pick and choose favorites.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Naruto's power levels exploding and everything turning into a giant kaiju battle (give Kishi credit for being Genre Savy with the Godzilla movie reference) aren't what I would consider great, epic, or badass.

-Personally I like this. The Bijuu battles are like a pure, old-fashioned brawl. No true tricks, just sheer "push forward until something dies" scenario. The ninja battles can be exciting, but at the same time they got a little too much variety. Not knowing is exciting, but when that's happening all the time and you're expecting a counter it becomes a bit stale. I guess I'm saying I got over-stimulated on the whole concept of ninja combat in Naruto so this Bijuu Beatdown is a nice change of pace for me.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Just a lot of glitter and sparkles to cover for the lack of story. Or the ability to write an interesting or clever fight. But giving Naruto another cool new cloak and powerup made a lot of fans happy, so I guess good for Kishi.

-Yeah its fanservice, but its the kind that people speculated for a very long time. Now was the perfect time to appease that and capitalize on it. And hey, if it keeps Sasuke away from mucking up the fight with more of his revenge and angst (revangst), I'm all for it.

-Although, I can't say I agree with the lack of story. I mean come on, really? Ever since this fight started we learned NotReallyMadara is a true "nobody" who doesn't wish to be "anybody", that the bijuu have had a long history with one another and humans which includes learning their names, and that Naruto made due on the promise that he would like to get rid of his hatred. And the fighting has never been better. Like I said, this being a Bijuu brawl, things are a lot simpler and easier to comprehend while at the same time is fast-paced and engaging. At least now I don't have to keep track of 50 characters at a time, trying to figure out who is doing what.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

And yeah, Gai and Kakashi are simply honoring the time honored tradition of shonen battle commentator. They are simply out of their league. And that backup must be sightseeing or something along the way.

-Its a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it. And considering 5 mountains just got obliterated from the fight and soon more are to follow, I think its safe to say back-up is either trying to take precaution or have been obliterated along with the mountains.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

What on earth will Sasuke get to compare to Naruto's latest powerup? Control of the Kyuubi seems like the only counter.

-I'd rather him just get kicked to the curb so much, he doesn't know what the ****. In my mind, Kabuto makes a much more cunning and fitting villain but whatever. Sasuke is likely going to have the advantage with the EMS/Susano-O but controlling Karuma is probably out.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

it's an amazing chapter, but it's a bit sad that Kakashi and Gai just become commentators..XD

I don't mind them stepping aside for a while. we're talking about bijou here. kakashi and gai measured up really well against akatsuki and actually did better in this bijou fight than I would have thought possible. I never expected either of them to be able to fight several bijou at once...

Originally Posted by thermopyle

My God...it's like reading really bad fanfiction. Wonder what power boost Naruto will pull out of his ass next. Probably a doujutsu.

fanfiction? this is a storyline and fight that has been culminating since the first chapter of the series.

Originally Posted by hyl

Well it does not change the fact that it is still some kind of "deus ex machina".

its not a deus ex machina. bijou mode and this crazy battle all are grounded in the intrinsic logic and history of the narutoverse and it follows the build up in recent storylines.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It's becoming difficult to imagine how can Sasuke be equal to the current Naruto, but i probably was thinking the same thing after Naruto beat Gaara and learned the rasengan, and then in the VotE fight Sasuke won. In the VotE fight Naruto was actually dumbed down, his boss summon was simply left out, which was then his strongest move, so if the author wants to do that this time he would have to remove Naruto's full kyuubi-mode, which would be kinda sad and annoying.

I didn't read it that way. I thought that 'saving' sasuke was something naruto wanted to do on his own and involving bunta or the other frogs would have detracted from what he was trying to do on a mental level.

[ZGoten]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

fanfiction? this is a storyline and fight that has been culminating since the first chapter of the series.

Sorry, but I just have to address this. The way I see it, you couldn't be more wrong with that statement, and that's exactly what I don't like about the manga. Nothing, absolutely nothing, from the beginning of the manga hints to this battle in this shape or form. That's because Naruto is a completely different manga now than it was when it started.

1. The whole storyline about Madara and Tobi is in no way connected to how the series started out with Orochimaru and Naruto's initial goal. That is, unless some connections will be made soon, but right now, I don't see it. Sure, there is Kabuto, and he's currently an ally of Tobi, but the focus of the story is somewhere else and would work exactly the same way, even without the first 200 chapters. The story in general just doesn't feel like a coherent structure, since there are too few connections in my opinion.

2. Naruto started out as a manga with intelligent battles, that, in Shippuuden, have been graduatelly downgraded to mindless brawls of raw power. It also started out with many different ninja, each with a bit of a magic edge to them. Now the story just focuses on a handful of all powerful, land destroying monsters (and I'm not talking about the bijuus here). Sure, some of you may argue that that's how Shonen works, but then let me argue that that concept is crap that needs to abandoned.

3. Naruto, the character, started out as a young boy, who had to train hard to achieve anything. Now he's pretty much proven Neji's theory right, in that he's just lucky to be born as the ninetail's jinchuuriki and Minato's son, and in that he receives random power ups just by smiling like an idiot.

4. Seriously, lightning speed? That power up alone is so random, that nothing even hinted towards that development. However, back when Naruto trained with Kirabi, Kishimoto just decided to throw it out there, and apparently nobody has any gripe with it. I mean it's random like saying: 'Ok, Lee can fly now, deal with it.' You need to build up and hint towards power ups and not just throw them out randomly. Yes, Naruto's father had the power of extreme speed, but up until the story point I just mentioned, Naruto has never shown any signs of following Minato's footsteps in that regard. In fact, almost the opposite was the case, with all the characters around Naruto being much faster than him.

5. The Kyuubi used to be monster, a beast of nature, hatred itself. Now it's a tamed pokemon. Seriously? Yes, that kind of development can be considered as a nice shift of views on the world and life itself, and criticism toward society, if you want to take it step further. But, you can't say that the story has been culminating to this from the beginning on. I mean many people, myself included, once thought that the ultimate goal of the series would be that Naruto fought and defeated the ninetails. Sure, you can hail the series for its unpredictable nature, but what do you expect from a series who's story, concepts and characters change on the fly, with barely any continuity.

Don't get me wrong. I am enjoying the series, and the most recent chapter was especially good. However, I just do not like the direction the series has been taking for the vast majority of Shippuuden. I do not like it at all. It's almost as bad as with Dragonball.

[milan kyuubi]

Nothing, absolutely nothing, from the beginning of the manga hints to this battle in this shape or form.

Just to put this out here Way back during chunin exams, Orochimaru hinted that Naruto will become formidable opponent once he becomes 'one' with the nine tails chakra.

So there were some hints (small, but still...). Seeing how back then the nine tails has been described as causing tsunamis etc with just one tail. It's only reasonable to think Naruto will become super strong once he becomes 'one' with the Kuruma's chakra.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

1. The whole storyline about Madara and Tobi is in no way connected to how the series started out with Orochimaru and Naruto's initial goal. That is, unless some connections will be made soon, but right now, I don't see it. Sure, there is Kabuto, and he's currently an ally of Tobi, but the focus of the story is somewhere else and would work exactly the same way, even without the first 200 chapters. The story in general just doesn't feel like a coherent structure, since there are too few connections in my opinion.

So you're basically saying that you don't agree with the sudden entrance of Tobi as the Big Bad? Understandable, perhaps, but it isn't as if the true Big Bad appearing halfway through is something unprecedented

2. Naruto started out as a manga with intelligent battles, that, in Shippuuden, have been graduatelly downgraded to mindless brawls of raw power. It also started out with many different ninja, each with a bit of a magic edge to them. Now the story just focuses on a handful of all powerful, land destroying monsters (and I'm not talking about the bijuus here). Sure, some of you may argue that that's how Shonen works, but then let me argue that that concept is crap that needs to abandoned.

Another idea that I've heard people bandy about, that I seriously have to wonder where it came from. It's true that battles have increased in scope and power as the series progressed, but clever strategy has never left the series. Just a little while ago, we saw one of Naruto's characteristic little tricks when he used Kage Bunshin to make Son spit him out, or when he slipped a clone in to push the stake out from the inside. Intelligent battles are still part of this series, just as much as brawls of raw power.

3. Naruto, the character, started out as a young boy, who had to train hard to achieve anything. Now he's pretty much proven Neji's theory right, in that he's just lucky to be born as the ninetail's jinchuuriki and Minato's son, and in that he receives random power ups just by smiling like an idiot.

Another theory I've heard people with, and one that I strongly disagree with. Yes, Naruto is the son of a genius, of a renowned clan and a jinchuuriki. Does this mean the effort he puts in became meaningless because of these things?

As a certain character in another manga once said "Talented people who don't put in the work become ordinary people" Talent, lineage, whatever isn't a one way, easy ticket to becoming strong, it just gives an advantage. Hard work is needed just the same.

4. Seriously, lightning speed? That power up alone is so random, that nothing even hinted towards that development. However, back when Naruto trained with Kirabi, Kishimoto just decided to throw it out there, and apparently nobody has any gripe with it. I mean it's random like saying: 'Ok, Lee can fly now, deal with it.' You need to build up and hint towards power ups and not just throw them out randomly. Yes, Naruto's father had the power of extreme speed, but up until the story point I just mentioned, Naruto has never shown any signs of following Minato's footsteps in that regard. In fact, almost the opposite was the case, with all the characters around Naruto being much faster than him.

What are you talking about? Naruto's speed has always increased whenever he used the Kyuubi's power, ever since his fight with Haku, it's not as if the concept of the Kyuubi's power increasing his speed came completely out of nowhere.

5. The Kyuubi used to be monster, a beast of nature, hatred itself. Now it's a tamed pokemon. Seriously? Yes, that kind of development can be considered as a nice shift of views on the world and life itself, and criticism toward society, if you want to take it step further. But, you can't say that the story has been culminating to this from the beginning on. I mean many people, myself included, once thought that the ultimate goal of the series would be that Naruto fought and defeated the ninetails. Sure, you can hail the series for its unpredictable nature, but what do you expect from a series who's story, concepts and characters change on the fly, with barely any continuity.

That depends on what you call culmination. Ever since Naruto started using the Kyuubi's power, it was obvious that some sort of control was going to be necessary. Looking at it rationally, there were only ever 3 choices. Naruto either controls Kyuubi completely to the point where it can't hurt him, he learns to get along with it, or he gets rid of it. When you look at the themes that have been presented from the start of the manga, I can't imagine how you're surprised they went with option 2.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

Sorry, but I just have to address this. The way I see it, you couldn't be more wrong with that statement, and that's exactly what I don't like about the manga. Nothing, absolutely nothing, from the beginning of the manga hints to this battle in this shape or form. That's because Naruto is a completely different manga now than it was when it started.

for starters, you don't seem to realize that all 5 of your examples fail to prove your initial point. which is just flat out wrong btw. I can't believe you made that long post about nothing... all you did was name things that happened in shippuden and then said it wasn't a direction you liked. none of that addresses your false claim that nothing in the beginning story eluded to this current storyline

In the first series just off the top of my head:

1) kyuubi is introduced in episode 1 as a giant fox monster, naruto's relationship and thoughts about him happen throughout the series
2) naruto/bunta transformed into kyuubi's image and battled ichibi
3) there were several fights with summonings that were gigantic animals just like we're seeing right now in the manga
4) naruto uses demonfox cloak and sasuke sees kurama's full image behind naruto
5) we learned a lot about the seal that kept kurama inside naruto
6) naruto uses friend no jutsu on many opponents, so kurama is just one in a long line

what more do you want? anymore buildup would probably be too much of a spoiler for when fans would think about how this bijou mode would play out

edit:

Originally Posted by ZGoten

2. Naruto started out as a manga with intelligent battles, that, in Shippuuden, have been graduatelly downgraded to mindless brawls of raw power. It also started out with many different ninja, each with a bit of a magic edge to them. Now the story just focuses on a handful of all powerful, land destroying monsters (and I'm not talking about the bijuus here). Sure, some of you may argue that that's how Shonen works, but then let me argue that that concept is crap that needs to abandoned.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Another idea that I've heard people bandy about, that I seriously have to wonder where it came from. It's true that battles have increased in scope and power as the series progressed, but clever strategy has never left the series. Just a little while ago, we saw one of Naruto's characteristic little tricks when he used Kage Bunshin to make Son spit him out, or when he slipped a clone in to push the stake out from the inside. Intelligent battles are still part of this series, just as much as brawls of raw power.

I totally agree with the latter. the battles are amazing in shippuden. how can people say they are not smart? what about shikamaru's battles? sasuke vs deidara? sasuke vs itachi? naruto/jiraiya vs pain? sasori anything?, etc... the battles have been unbelievably complex and intelligent. for someone to call them mindless brawls is completely silly and just shows how unjustly biased you are against this new series for some reason. I think the battles are as smart or smarter than the first series. just match the series' up based on intelligent moves and see which series comes out on top. i guarantee it's shippuden

[itachi-san314]

sorry double post

[ZGoten]

My five points fail to prove my initial point? What I did was say, that the story did not culminate to this battle from the beginning on, because Naruto was a completely different manga in the beginning. Then I pointed out, how it was different. Things did not culminate to the current state, they just changed. If you consider the Shippuuden manga a series in itself, I would maybe agree. But the beginning of the series was too different and did not help build up today's storyline.

After Orochimaru's 'death', Kishimoto just started a second story, with a minimal amount of connections, resulting in a lack of coherence by the way. It was that second storyline that introduced Tobi and Madara. There was no build up whatsoever in that direction during first 200 chapters. The way the story is right now, it may have been built up rather well from the beginning of Shippuden, but not from the beginning of the series.

The fact that I don't like the direction the manga is taking is just another notion I added to my post and is barely connected to my initial claim, just lilke Naruto and Naruto Shippuuden.

Also, I didn't say that the battles of Shippuden in general are less interesting than the original ones. I said Shippuuden graduately downgraded them. But if you seriously consider Pain vs. Naruto an intelligently designed battle, then I guess, there is no point in arguing with you guys on that one . . .

[Alchemist007]

A new Naruto to stand around looking cool and the cooler one doing the seeking. Kakashi's just throwing out those "omg yondaime" moments now isn't he. I think if Tobi really wanted to kill Naruto he'd do that instant transmission backstab, he's just too self-righteous to admit he's having fun too.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by james0246

And this is why they should have never been included in the fight in the first place (something I said weeks ago when they "sprang" into action).

i had similar complaints. now it seems that gai and kakashi's purpose was to simply get naruto out of trouble for that exact moment. other than that, they're of no use. this is why i thought naruto and bee should have handled this fight themselves. oh well...

i can't say i liked this chapter nor did i hate it. it's an okay chapter. this naruto and kyuubi fusion is long overdue. i expected this to happen some chapters ago so there's really no surprise. i don't want to get too excited about this new transformation. i got excited when naruto returned to konoha to face pain in his sage mode, but what happened after that was a huge disappointment. so i'm saving my judgment after this battle is over.

[xKeir]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

3. Naruto, the character, started out as a young boy, who had to train hard to achieve anything. Now he's pretty much proven Neji's theory right, in that he's just lucky to be born as the ninetail's jinchuuriki and Minato's son, and in that he receives random power ups just by smiling like an idiot.

Oh damn. Didn't bother to read the rest of what you wrote but just had to say this.

Naruto isn't just lucky to be born as a Jinchuuriki. Surely he's receiving Lv99 power ups now and than , but he was treated like shit for 15 years [or so.?] Who in the hell would want to be a social out cast in exchange for power [?] And he lived most of his current life w/o knowing about his family linage.

All i am saying is , the power he has now is his deservedly. Just as it is for Bee. They suffered loads and that is just something they get in return.

If there's anything about proving Neji's theory right it would be Sasuke. w/ his Sharingan.

Naw just kidding. Dun wanna start a crap war w/ sasuke fans.

But to be fair i think your right to a certain point. I mean , obviously Kishimoto didn't plan this event from Day 1. He just made things up as they went along , but he did so perfectly. But still , i liked what he's done. Just that the power difference between Naruto & Shippuden is just massive.

I'd really prefer a Zabuza-Haku VS Kakashi-Naruto-Sasuke type of fight once in awhile instead of mountain blowing/crater creating battles :3

[HasuMasu]

Originally Posted by thermopyle

My God...it's like reading really bad fanfiction. Wonder what power boost Naruto will pull out of his ass next. Probably a doujutsu.

Oh how I've missed you.


On an unrelated note, while he indeed has a cool new cloak I still don't think it can match the sexiness of the one he used when he fought Pain.

Now he seriously needs to bring that back.

[Shay]

Wonder how Sasuke will react when he finds out Tobi is not Madara and that Madara is now kicking Kage ass?

He may turn on him just like he did with Orochimaru....

[HasuMasu]

Originally Posted by Shay

Wonder how Sasuke will react when he finds out Tobi is not Madara and that Madara is now kicking Kage ass?

He may turn on him just like he did with Orochimaru....

I doubt Sasuke, even with the EMS, would just go for Tobi like he did with Orochimaru. Tobi is Danny Phantom after all.