Total Eclipse - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[galdr]

Are the Fubuki/Shiranui that hard to pilot?
Training a complete newbie to master Japanese TSFs shouldn't take that much longer compared to training using American TSFs.

I assume the reason why Yuuya is having a hard time is because he is not used to Japanese style, not because Fubuki/Shiranui is hard to use specifically.

[Jan-Poo]

Well that was what Yuuya said and he's a test pilot. It wouldn't be very professional to say that just because he's not used to it.

[SoFarGone]

is the next episode suppose to be the beach one?

[black knight iust]

cant wait for that
@Nyat if tarisa is a chochlet loli then does that mean inia is a big breasted loli
im hoping for yuuya x harem

[Ray]

I immensely enjoyed watching this episode; Yuuya's 1v1 with Yui was awesome, I love the colours colour of Yui's Takemi and how her Eishi suit matches it (I still can't get over how sexy she looks in it <3).

What was the song that played during their duel? I really liked it.

Originally Posted by TheEroKing

I'm hoping he does

Yes, me too.

Yui x Yuuya for tah win.

[John117xCortana]

Is that translation really accurate ? I mean is that exactly what he said or something that the subs put for the lulz ?

[Ray]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Is that translation really accurate ? I mean is that exactly what he said or something that the subs put for the lulz ?

Yeah. At least I think it is; the subs I was watching are correct/accurate most of the time.

[Jan-Poo]

I think he says "Yui-hime mo isshoni norikonashite miro koto sa, top gun!"

Breaking it apart:

"Yui-hime mo" -> "Princess Yui too"

"Isshoni" -> "together" or "at the same time"

"Norikonasu" is often used with the meaning of riding and managing a wild horse. In this case it's used for a TSF... and a wild woman.

"miro" -> used in conjunction with the "-te" form means "try to"

"koto" -> literally "thing" but it doesn't mean much in this context and it's usually left untranslated.

"sa" -> a particle similar to "yo", it just emphasizes the sentence.

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by black knight iust

@maximilianjenus i think a sniper with a atleast 70 persent chance to oneshot would be better choice to take care of laser class

and how ? if the snipers get to a higher ground compared to the swarm of beta the lasers will take care of it, if the snipers stands in the same ground as the swarm, well, good luck centering the shoot while the swarm eats your tsf.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Frankly it doesn't make much sense that Yui could one-shot Tarisa, Stella and VG, Even supposing she's an ace pilot and even considering the Takemikazuchi that was a bit too much, but I guess the time constraints of an anime called for that...
It becomes even more difficult to accept when you see Yuuya standing his ground against Yui even thought until that point his performances were always inferior to the other three against Beta and in the first mock battle they didn't seem much below his level, not even VG who had the same machine.

It's obvious that Yui decided to go easy on Yuuya, but why would she go as far as to let him disarm her? I guess that's supposed to be an unexpected sudden surge of superhuman skills from Yuuya's part, but that seems a bit fortuitous when you consider what Yui just did to the other three.


Regarding the conflicting warrior and soldier philosophies, I think it shouldn't even be argued which is right. Yuuya is absolutely right, there's no point in a machine that can only be piloted by veterans, you don't fight wars with veterans alone, especially wars when pilots keep dying like flies and you need to resort to teenagers to replace them.

I wonder if Yui realized the fact that she is the only survivor of her whole class and that maybe it's not a coincidence that only an Ace pilot survived on a TSF designed for Ace pilots.

The irony of this is that they could have it both ways, with easy to pilot TSFs for the grunts and elite-oriented TSFs for the samurai and noble class, since they are already piloting different machines.

I know americans in Muv Luv are often accused to favor combat from the long distance and to prefer destructive actions from afar rather than going straight into the battlefield, but frankly in my opinion killing your enemy while staying out of harm's way is the number one strategical advance one should achieve whenever it's possible. Elite training goes way below that, after numerical superiority (which isn't an option agaisnt Beta though).

You perceived the scenes different from how i did.

a) yui is that good, she defeated the 4 of them easily.
b) this is easier for people used to read battle manga,since it's a cliche there, the strong character challenges the weaker one with the victory condition for the weaker one being getting a single hit on the strong character, they played it exactly as it is done in those series.
c) yuuya was not standing his ground, yui was just toying with him until he was able to land a decent blow.
d) regarding fighting using only veterans, well, that's a more ideal matter, why throw 100 girls in the meat grinder when 10 veterans are as effective, you loss less lives that way.
e) the tsf yui and her class used when tehy were slaughtered were american ones, the ones that are easy to use, so you can see how useful is using unexperienced pilots on easy to pilot tsfs.

I agree with you that killing the enemy while minimizing/receiving no damage is ideal, but that's easier said than done.

[Reckoner]

I like the characters.

I like the setting.

I like the general plot happening.

I hate, hate these production values.

If there is anything holding back this anime from being more than just good, it's the they assigned Satelight to do the visuals with this low of a budget. Seriously lackluster in that department. Choreography feels nonexistent, and animation just not very good.

[Angrypokstick]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

d) regarding fighting using only veterans, well, that's a more ideal matter, why throw 100 girls in the meat grinder when 10 veterans are as effective, you loss less lives that way.
e) the tsf yui and her class used when tehy were slaughtered were american ones, the ones that are easy to use, so you can see how useful is using unexperienced pilots on easy to pilot tsfs.

not saying you are wrong, but i think he meant:
"whats the point of getting those veterans if the cost 9 people to die to produce that one vet." Wouldn't it be better to have the whole squad survive using a more practical TSF rather than have the whole squad killed to find the one guy that had the skills and aptitude to survive with those conditions. "
Though in my own opinion, Japan did what they thought bests with what they had, and so far its working well enough to Hold the Line, and in this bleak setting that's all that really matter for now.

The TSF the Squad was using in ep 2 is a F-4 phantom variant. But it has been almost completely remade to meet the requirement of the Japanese Imperial Guards to match their fighting doctrine. I would imagine that it handles vastly different than the original F-4 phantom.

[Destined_Fate]

Eh, I've seen worse. Though a shame that Evol seemed to get a higher budget than this.



A Squad of horrible pilots will never equal one Veteran against the BETA since numbers clearly didn't work out considering the BETA overran Eurasia.

Futhermore you saw how easily a Veteran, Yui, took out the whole team and played with Yuuya despite him trying his best. It was only after his realization that he even managed to hit her and the fight ended because she said it was over not that he even came close to her level.

[black knight iust]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

and how ? if the snipers get to a higher ground compared to the swarm of beta the lasers will take care of it, if the snipers stands in the same ground as the swarm, well, good luck centering the shoot while the swarm eats your tsf.




You perceived the scenes different from how i did.

a) yui is that good, she defeated the 4 of them easily.
b) this is easier for people used to read battle manga,since it's a cliche there, the strong character challenges the weaker one with the victory condition for the weaker one being getting a single hit on the strong character, they played it exactly as it is done in those series.
c) yuuya was not standing his ground, yui was just toying with him until he was able to land a decent blow.
d) regarding fighting using only veterans, well, that's a more ideal matter, why throw 100 girls in the meat grinder when 10 veterans are as effective, you loss less lives that way.
e) the tsf yui and her class used when tehy were slaughtered were american ones, the ones that are easy to use, so you can see how useful is using unexperienced pilots on easy to pilot tsfs.

I agree with you that killing the enemy while minimizing/receiving no damage is ideal, but that's easier said than done.

in a 2-3 man team a sniper can hit them without getting ripped apart two sniper guards one cqc one ranged it works great in many games
take into effect 70+ % accuracy means the pilot will be aware of thier surroundings
im not sure if destroyers can climb up steep rocks easly
beam class arnt that tough so one shot is all thats needed
graplers dont have that heavy armor so it would be good to use something with more stopping power like a shot gun and blade which ive seen cut through them like a knife through butter and a frag granade meant for tfs throughn to the underbelly of destroyers would be effective to bad i have yet to see tfs with anything other than rifles and blades and maby heavy weponry
wonder how the jehuty from (Z.O.E) would fair seeing as it has a invinceable shield and all

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

d) regarding fighting using only veterans, well, that's a more ideal matter, why throw 100 girls in the meat grinder when 10 veterans are as effective, you loss less lives that way.

Except they have no choice but to send girls to the meat grinder and they do that on a regular basis you just need to watch EP02 to realize that. Seeing as how a pilot on average doesn't last more than 8 minutes they can hardly say that their strategy is really working. They should rather focus on maximizing the general survivability rather than improve the effectiveness of the few that survive.

Also I don't agree that 10 veterans are more effective than 100 greenhorns. It may work in fictions when heroes are overglorified but in reality there isn't any "skill" that can turn the tides on a 1 vs 10 ratio against you.
The only way to win in numerical inferiority is by using strategies that prevents the enemy from damaging you or that minimize their effectiveness. And you need to minimize your losses as much as possible.

There is one quote from starship troopers that can apply quite well to Muv Luv: "Even if we killed 100 of them for every soldier that we lose, that'd still be a net gain for the insects".

[black knight iust]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

"Even if we killed 100 of them for every soldier that we lose, that'd still be a net gain for the insects".

i agree with that thiers just too many of them that 1 isnt even close to equal to them
maby if teams were set up based on indavidual abilitys tt 1 would be worth more
what is that armor of destroyers made out of maby if we could gather that and build some kind of shield or something then maby it will be heavy enough to stop a destroyer

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by galdr

Are the Fubuki/Shiranui that hard to pilot?
Training a complete newbie to master Japanese TSFs shouldn't take that much longer compared to training using American TSFs.

I assume the reason why Yuuya is having a hard time is because he is not used to Japanese style, not because Fubuki/Shiranui is hard to use specifically.

The thing is that Yui pretty much vindicated Yuuya's talent in her shower scene though. She was showering him with harsh words in front of him, but she has clearly acknowledged his piloting abilities and talent in the least.

[Jan-Poo]

I think there's a difference between learning to pilot a machine and master it.

It's not like Yuuya had a problem in piloting the shiranui he had a problem because he couldn't control it in the perfect way that he wished for.
An average Japanese pilot probably doesn't even realize what does it mean to master and completely control a TSF, in the end they don't have anything to compare their machines to.
To Yuuya the japanese machines are simply too difficult to master, he thinks that if he has a problem adapting to them it must be an even greater problem for a pilot a lot less skilled than him to learn.
It's not like he thinks "I'll never master it", he thinks: "It's too damn hard to master, that's not how a TSF should be, because not everyone is a damn savant".

Ep 5 made clear that Yui is lying to Yuuya, she is genuinely impressed by his skills and by how fast he's learning to pilot a TSF he's not used to. She just plays the part of the bitch because she wants even more from him.

[black knight iust]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I think there's a difference between learning to pilot a machine and master it.

It's not like Yuuya had a problem in piloting the shiranui he had a problem because he couldn't control it in the perfect way that he wished for.
An average Japanese pilot probably doesn't even realize what does it mean to master and completely control a TSF, in the end they don't have anything to compare their machines to.
To Yuuya the japanese machines are simply too difficult to master, he thinks that if he has a problem adapting to them it must be an even greater problem for a pilot a lot less skilled than him to learn.
It's not like he thinks "I'll never master it", he thinks: "It's too damn hard to master, that's not how a TSF should be, because not everyone is a damn savant".

Ep 5 made clear that Yui is lying to Yuuya, she is genuinely impressed by his skills and by how fast he's learning to pilot a TSF he's not used to. She just plays the part of the bitch because she wants even more from him.

isnt that tsundere or something like it

[Tenchi Ryu]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Ep 5 made clear that Yui is lying to Yuuya, she is genuinely impressed by his skills and by how fast he's learning to pilot a TSF he's not used to. She just plays the part of the bitch because she wants even more from him.

What I'm not understanding though is WHY she had to take this approach? Yuuya definitely has a cocky streak about him, but he's definitely not lazy, and WANTS to be the best.

I could understand if he had to be pushed, but he legitimately seems to want to be the best he can be naturally, so why use the intimidation method for someone who's already pretty strong willed?

[black knight iust]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Ryu

What I'm not understanding though is WHY she had to take this approach? Yuuya definitely has a cocky streak about him, but he's definitely not lazy, and WANTS to be the best.

I could understand if he had to be pushed, but he legitimately seems to want to be the best he can be naturally, so why use the intimidation method for someone who's already pretty strong willed?

she might already know about his issues with jp