Spice and Wolf II - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Justin Kim]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

You have to take the Horo's age into account - remember that she was surprised that church was so powerful? Meaning she never was in society where church played big role before.

Which means that when she could have taken option of the church it would have been useless since probably only a very few monastery's (the prime sources of writing) where available by the last time she was in contact with the Church (besides they would not teach her, as she was woman and Church up till around 800 years counted woman as being without a soul, until the Pope released bulle that woman could actually posses a soul, but is still unequal being to a man). So from that time when she remembers Church only very few of clergymen could read.

'Travel gathering information little-by-little' doesn't work either since the majority of people are not able to read or write either and those who can you will not meet on streets or common places.

Adding on a little bit to that, if the church even saw Horo's ears. I think they would easily consider her some kind of demon/pagan worshipper. The Church back then was pretty much shot after the National Assembly and the San riots.

[FTGT]

In this episode Horo was sooo damn cute, it was nearly criminal. Apparently I had the same feelings as the little apprentice in this picture (I was grabbing my chest and tried to calm down several times).

Originally Posted by Kaguya

Spoiler for my favorite scene from the episode 2:

10/10... no discussion about it!
(...then again, they could show me Horo eating an apple for 20 minutes and I would nevertheless give a perfect score).

I like the details about the character behaviour. For example:
1) When Guy Bartose told Lawrence that besides alchemy also magic was researched in that part of the city, Lawrence refused to walk on since as a merchant he just dont believe in that kind of superstition. So Guy had to cajole Lawrence into following him further to Deannas house by saying that they are all "nice people". XD
2) The absolutely funny chat between Mark and his wife. Quote: "I would bake Amati a cake over your jealous flames".
3) When Lawrence asks drunken Horo where Amati is, she says that she "probably" parted with him downstairs..... just hilarious! ^^

It really gives me the feeling of a very well-thought-out and mature storyline. Totally different to the "He is the only chosen one teenager that can safe the world and satisfy all the girls" anime I have watched way too often in my life. :P

[Journeyman]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

What's he done to be called that? For that matter, what's Lawrence done that Amati should be feeling grateful about?

SwiftStrike did shed some light on why I consider Amati a swine. Whatever sort of contract/debt there is between Horo and Lawrence is none of his business.
And yet, he chooses to intervene. Is it for the sake of competition and adrenaline? Or maybe he takes pleasure in showoff of his wealth? Whatever is the reason, his behavior is not of a person who cannot control his emotions.



IMO, Amati is ungrateful to the guild and whoever helped him to start his trade. Unstained reputation, flourishing business, success at such a young age..and he decides to risk it all just because of some whimsical idea to get Horo's attention.

Having an affair with a nun, who is already in some sort of relations with another member of the same guild (which brings a lot more attention to the story), is not going to harm just his social standing. Saying "I'm ...a travelling merchant, Rowen guild" will just cause people to think "ah, those guys who like travelling nuns" before anything else.

As we see near the end of Ep.2, rumors are spreading really fast. Townsfolk in Kumerson found these quite interesting. If they make it to Rubinhagen...some contracts and contacts will be lost

[SwiftStrike]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Mind deleting your post SwiftStrike? That's a huge spoil, and it's not even in spoiler tags. I've been spoiled, though i'd like to save other people from it.

I apologize (also edited it) if I have spoiled; I will try not to do so in the future, however the thing that was not in spoilers(deleted that part too) was actually really evident in this ep if you looked.

Spoiler for Mark's words and such 18:05+:

"Watch out for that [Amati]. When guys that age get carried away..they'l do anything"

[Saleh]

Is Lawrence considering of going into swindling business himself by selling pyrites? Mark ransacked or did demand for nails dwindle ?

Originally Posted by Journeyman

SwiftStrike did shed some light on why I consider Amati a swine. Whatever sort of contract/debt there is between Horo and Lawrence is none of his business.
And yet, he chooses to intervene. Is it for the sake of competition and adrenaline? Or maybe he takes pleasure in showoff of his wealth? Whatever is the reason, his behavior is not of a person who cannot control his emotions.

His behavior is of an infatuated teen. Being good at a trade is hardly any protection against infatuation. And both Lawrence and Horo (and her charms) are partially to be blamed for his misconception. Besides, its a nice plot device to make Lawrence jealous and bring them closer to relationship. It would have been nice if it lasted.

[Anh_Minh]

Journeyman: I don't really want to discuss events that have yet to appear in the anime (not in this thread, anyway. The novel thread's another story.)... But I also disagree with your post. On almost every particular.

[otaku_trev]

I thought the episode was very good. The part when the aprentice walks into the room with Horo under the bed sheets.......priceless!

It was cool to see some more character's introduced like Bartose. Maybe we will finally see a jealous Lawrence! I mean he was running pretty fast there at the end, and I don't think it was to go and buy pyrite. Can't wait for the next episode!

[typhonsentra]

I still have a hard time believing the Pyrite's value could climb so much before anyone pointed out it's a total scam. Lawrence isn't the only decent merchant in town you know. At minimum I was surprised Horo couldn't tell that it wasn't gold seeing as how she was such an expert on metals in the first arc.

[Vexx]

Heh.. didn't we just have a world-wide meltdown due in large part to fancy 'legal' Ponzi schemes that severely overvalued assets?

But you're right... gold is actually quite easy to distinguish from pyrite (doesn't weigh the same and visual differences in raw form) so its either a weak point in the story or a bit of Monty Pythonesque "wood=duck=witch" idiocy.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

I still have a hard time believing the Pyrite's value could climb so much before anyone pointed out it's a total scam.

People are less superstitious now than they were in the middle ages. And yet we still buy lucky charms. Astrologers haven't all starved. And so on. It's not sold as gold, but as "magic stones". We actually still do that with quartz, I think. If people really believed all those rocks were gold, they'd burn the witch and take it all from her. If it was gold, it'd be a real goddamn fortune.

Lawrence isn't the only decent merchant in town you know.

Well, we have two examples of good merchants react to the pyrite:
- Lawrence: how can I get in on the action?
- Amati: hey, I can use it to impress Horo with my money!
Why would other "decent merchants" react differently? What would they have to gain by denouncing it as a scam? They'd just look silly.

At minimum I was surprised Horo couldn't tell that it wasn't gold seeing as how she was such an expert on metals in the first arc.

She wasn't a expert. She was just able to use her superior senses to tell the difference in metal content between two coins. And she didn't mistake it for gold - she took it for a pretty trinket, which it is. Her only real mistake was believing it to be manmade, which is understandable.



I'll also point out that gold is a relatively useless yellow rock. It's only valuable because we say so.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'll also point out that gold is a relatively useless yellow rock. It's only valuable because we say so.

While yes it is vlaubale because we say so, there is a good reason why its been dubbed as valuabe.

Probably the main reason it has been deemed valuable is because its a rare metal. It is also impervious to the elements. Beacause of this, people in ancient times were able to take natural nuggets and pound them together to form metal objects. Gold does not oxidize or corrode, so it’s shape will remain a thousand years from now if you do not ware it away.

Another property making it valuable was its mallebility. No matter how much you beat on it gold tends not to crack. Gold can actually be hammered out so thin that light can pass through it. "Gold Foil" is basically gold thats thinner than tin foil and was used to cover idols and temples, thus raising it's status even more.

In the past gold's value was based on work; People worked very hard for gold. It quickly became impractical to carry large piles of it, so governments took much of the gold and gave people money representing a given weight in gold.

There are plenty of new uses for it today...

- Gold transfers electricity with less resistance than any other metal on earth
- Many electronics and computer components use gold wiring for circuitry
- Since it doesn't corrode it's used to plate or make fine electrical contacts
- Due to its reflectiveness it is used in equipment that needs to not oxidize like laser chambers
- Astronauts, pilots and some sunglasses are coated with gold to cut down on the intensity of sun rays
- Many fine fabrics have gold threads due to gold no dulling over time

Of course another reason it is probably cosnidered valuable is that gold looks apealing. Jewelry and sculptures have been fashioned from gold throughout history and today.

Many people find gold to be beautiful and it has very rare properties which makes it so valuable.

[fish eric]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Thats because Adam and Eve. Eve came from Adam's part of the body, but did not share his soul (as it was just an organ, rib if to be exact). This was long discussed though, but not on behalf of all women but more because of virgin Mary status - she was a soulless being - a woman - after all. Then they went it as an explanation of the miracle - just like she was pregnant as a virgin, they decided upon the heavily bless from abpve to give her a soul as well.

But again she was special while all other women were not and teaching them something as sacred as writting or reading was caunted to be blasphemy. It's like trying to teach a dog to read a bibble.

'Woman should not be writing/reading' - rule was lasting pretty long actually, even way after they decided that they do have souls after all.

Okay, thanks for the explanation. I don't know a whole lot about theology so stuff like this usually leaves me scratching my head.

I left you some rep points for such a good answer




Horo didn't seem to care what the die was made out of. She just thought it was cool. She was impressed that the fortune teller was accurate.