Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[wredsa]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

Even if the rumors of mass murder were a trick, the soldiers would still suddenly be aware of a period of several months where they were powerless in their own bodies as they were made to oppress their countrymen and destroy their country's institutions. We know for a fact that Lelouch was "putting down" the forces of nobles who wanted to retain their titles, so they were fighting their fellow soldiers for awhile. How would they seek psychological help for this without revealling themselves as soldiers of Lelouch?

Remember After Geassed people lose their memory a lot.

Thus making them not guilty of any crime

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by wredsa

They not only protected people but they gave their lives for world peace. I know they might have done it unwittingly but they managed to be martyrs. Is it really their misfortune ... probably but many of them outlived Lelouch in the end so I think they wont complain much.

There was other ways to end the war and have peace than to brainwash people and kill them. You can't just excuse Lelouch's atrocities by claiming that those he killed where made martyrs.

What about the hundreds of thousands of people from Fuji who died when it exploded where those people martyrs?

[azul120]

Exactly. Which is why in my dream post-canon scenario where Suzaku makes Ohgi and Villetta his personal bitches for their role in the betrayal that pushed Lelouch down the path of the Zero Requiem, he also has their child taken away and adopted under Kallen, with documents forged of the biological parents being Kallen and one Lelouch Lamperouge, who died in the Mt. Fuji blast.

[flyaway213]

I cried when I saw the ending. It was perfect; depressing yet happy. I was glad that Lelouch's sister realized what he was up to and was able to tell him she loves him before he passed. I would say this is one of the best anime's ever and this the best of the episodes.

[Ludrio D. Zoki]

Spoiler for Conjecture, since I don't remember if this was canon or not :<:

As stated many times earlier, Lelouch was driving the cart I believe.

[Nobodyman4]

Originally Posted by Ludrio D. Zoki

Spoiler for Conjecture, since I don't remember if this was canon or not :<:

As stated many times earlier, Lelouch was driving the cart I believe.

[Jsmithmim@saber]

average ending..some major mistakes+suzaku alive and zero..kidding me..

[Krytonis]

I really did not expect Suzaku to kill Zero.. it was just.... unexpected

[jadedcorlis573]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

People continue to cling to their delusions. In the director's cut version of Zero: Requiem, the cart driver scene/monologue with C.C. doesn't even exist in the first place. And the writers (not Sunrise; the actual, individual writers wholly responsible for the script and story, Okouchi and Taniguchi) didn't say "Lelouch Vi Britannia is dead", they said Lelouch is dead. There's no room for clever little excuses like "oh he'll be revived afterwards"--the plain truth, the clear intention is for Lelouch to be dead, period. People just need to learn to accept that this is the officially endorsed, authorially supported, unambiguously plainly correct interpretation of the story. Anything else is complete fanfiction. Live with it.

(There's nothing wrong with fanfiction. Just don't fool yourself about what you're really doing.)

No, no no.
Look up the Death of the Author thoughts.
Saying that the author saying that there is only one correct interpretation, this limits the impact any piece of work has.
I haven't seen their official confirmation about him dying, but this still stands.
The cart driver scene appeared to be official to me, so it's opened to me.
I should also buy the DVD and take a close look.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by jadedcorlis573

No, no no.
Look up the Death of the Author thoughts.
Saying that the author saying that there is only one correct interpretation, this limits the impact any piece of work has.
I haven't seen their official confirmation about him dying, but this still stands.
The cart driver scene appeared to be official to me, so it's opened to me.
I should also buy the DVD and take a close look.

An old post of mine? But you do realize that the ideas behind the "Death of the Author" are pretty much exactly equivalent to an endorsement of fanfiction, right? So you think Lelouch is still alive based on your interpretation of the story--well what the fuck do I care, lol. You're just one fan--while your own interpretation might be just as valid to you, the only perspective which has any external weight to me is the official interpretation of the story. Even if you raise up individual interpretations to be just as legitimate as the author's intentions, they still don't amount to anything more than one guy's escapist fanfiction. I have no obligation to take it seriously.

[npal]

That they went to such extents with the Director's cut just proves that the original conception was ambiguous enough that it didn't point to Lelouch being dead. Of course, the fact that a writer/creator was forced to alter his original work (without being coerced by censorship or other entities) in order to convey the supposed meaning you wanted to convey is a writer's failure. You can't take a creator like that seriously. And that's pretty much the end of it. Kinda reminds me of how Rowling went around calling the old man queer; that was picking interpretations for your readers, that's bad, too.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by npal

That they went to such extents with the Director's cut just proves that the original conception was ambiguous enough that it didn't point to Lelouch being dead. Of course, the fact that a writer/creator was forced to alter his original work (without being coerced by censorship or other entities) in order to convey the supposed meaning you wanted to convey is a writer's failure. You can't take a creator like that seriously. And that's pretty much the end of it. Kinda reminds me of how Rowling went around calling the old man queer; that was picking interpretations for your readers, that's bad, too.

lol, whether or not I take Code Geass' creator(s) seriously is besides the point. He/they still created a multi-million dollar entertainment franchise. In the end, they're still gonna be more worth listening to than the self-indulgent fantasies of some wildly-imaginative fan.

[GundamFan0083]

I'll just leave this here....

[azul120]

Only place where Death of the Author can apply is the ending being a good one.

Whole lot of political Artistic License going on there.

[Lost Cause]

As far as I'm concerned the "cart driver" scene was put in for a reason, too give the people involved with the story an opening to return there.
As to wether or not Lelouch is dead or alive, well now that's up too the individual doing the watching! Remember it's anime, and anything is possible.

[Tori]

I have mixed feelings about LeLouch's death. His death was technically necessary in order to set the world on the right path but I'm still bummed that my favorite guy character died. I agree with the other posters, he should've just faked his death.

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Tori

I have mixed feelings about LeLouch's death. His death was technically necessary in order to set the world on the right path but I'm still bummed that my favorite guy character died. I agree with the other posters, he should've just faked his death.

Necessary? He had other options towards ending the conflict. He just wanted death because he thought he had lost practically everything precious to him.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

As far as I'm concerned the "cart driver" scene was put in for a reason, too give the people involved with the story an opening to return there.
As to wether or not Lelouch is dead or alive, well now that's up too the individual doing the watching! Remember it's anime, and anything is possible.

Quoted for Truth.

If the Gaiden turns out to be the epic fail that the current manga is, then I suspect Sunrise will either resurrect Lelouch or leave well enough alone and end the Geass franchise.

I don't know which they'll choose to do, and I'm not going to speculate right now since we have no idea how the new Gaiden will do in sales yet.
Once we know that, then I'll give an opinion about future Geass.

[Tori]

Originally Posted by azul120

Necessary? He had other options towards ending the conflict. He just wanted death because he thought he had lost practically everything precious to him.

That's not how I took his death. I thought it was necessary because of all the chaos and confusion he caused. He practically directed all of the world's hatred onto himself. His death was a way to unite everyone and make peace. Isn't that why he ordered Suzaku to kill him in front of everyone? The only other option I could think of was if he faked his death but he still had to appear dead to everyone. Other than that, I don't see any other option.

[lightsenshi]

Originally Posted by Tori

I have mixed feelings about LeLouch's death. His death was technically necessary in order to set the world on the right path but I'm still bummed that my favorite guy character died. I agree with the other posters, he should've just faked his death.

We pretty much beat as to what might have motivated Lelouch's choice Death by Zero to a bloody pulp back in the character thread on Shirley. Yes, Lelouch could have set up others to take the fall but instead choose to the center of it all.