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Last of the Uchiha · 2004-06-13, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muad'Dib

If Sasuke uses the power that the curse seal grants him, he will be default become Orochimaru's slave. Kakashi's seal only prevents the curse seal from working automatically--it has no effect if Sasuke wants the power.

He's going to Orochimaru for power. He has stated in the manga he does not care if Orochimaru takes over his body. He does not care about his future. He does not care about his comrades. He cares about only one thing: killing his brother. As far as he's concerned, if he becomes Orochimaru's brainwashed loveslave, it doesn't matter at all as long as he's able to kill his brother. He doesn't need to save his humanity--that's irrelevant.

Sasuke has already started to become brainwashed. There is a marked difference before he enters the drum and leaves it in level 2 state. He is different psychologically, emotionally, rationally-- on every single level he is different. Before he left Konoha, he looked with emotion at the picture of the Genin number 7 team. Now he doesn't give a shit for anybody. Orochimaru is already brainwashing Sasuke because Sasuke only cares about one thing now: revenge. His willpower is irrelevent. If his willpower were to save him it would mean he would head back home right now.

The part where Sasuke said that he doesn't care that Orochimaru takes over his body was more of a bluff as i have said before, because he wants to see, feel, hear, when he kill his brother by his own hands, not letting some else do the job. It was stated that the more you the cursed seal, the more you lose control of your will, no that automatically you become a slave. He need his humanity because he wants to rebuld his clan. He just wants to take care of priorities first and then worry about the restoration of the clan. His will power is what will save him when the time comes to get rid of Orochimaru influence, but not now. He needs to be trained by Orochimaru so he can become stronger and learn a lot of kinjutsu. The reason why Sasuke broke his ties with the Leaf is what Iatchi said to him, " Why are you so weak? "Still not enough hatefulness". Then Sasuke ask himself "What the hell i've been all this time?" By being with his friends and doing silly missions has hold down his progress. In order to become very strong he needs to become what he hates most, his brother. Thats for me is what Itachi always had in mind for Sasuke. For what reason i don't know but i'm pretty sure its for something very important.

chamelean75 · 2004-06-13, 23:43

I don't think this part is a bluff. At this point, Sasuke has lost a lot of ability to reason and he is in no mental shape to bluff. Last of the Uchiha, you yourself said that killing itachi was sasuke's main goal, sure he wants to restart his clan, but if that were really a distant goal, do you really think that he would go to orochimaru. Do you really think that will power is enough to get rid of orochimaru? Everyone who is in league with oro is practically in love with him. Anyways, sasuke isn't gonna get through the gates to even reach orochimaru cause naruto is gonna drag his beaten body back to konoha. Also, remember that Kakashi said that Naruto had more potential chakra in him than himself and sasuke.

Anko Plushy · 2004-06-13, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamelean75

I don't think this part is a bluff. At this point, Sasuke has lost a lot of ability to reason and he is in no mental shape to bluff. Last of the Uchiha, you yourself said that killing itachi was sasuke's main goal, sure he wants to restart his clan, but if that were really a distant goal, do you really think that he would go to orochimaru. Do you really think that will power is enough to get rid of orochimaru? Everyone who is in league with oro is practically in love with him. Anyways, sasuke isn't gonna get through the gates to even reach orochimaru cause naruto is gonna drag his beaten body back to konoha. Also, remember that Kakashi said that Naruto had more potential chakra in him than himself and sasuke.

As I said before... Even if Naruto brings Sasuke back to the village he's not gonna stay. And if the only thing they can possible do is seal the 1st level curse seal then what the hell are they gonna do about the 2nd level if they've never even seen it before? Face it! If Naruto brings Sasuke back to the village everyone'll die and be slaughtered painfully and the jounins even though they'll probably be all against it will wind up having to kill him so I think Naruto is gonna get the shit beaat out of him and then Tsunade'' come back or Shikmaru will find his unconscious body and the leaf genin and sand genin will wind up having to return to the village. Just cause Naruto promised to bring Sasuke back doesn't mean it's gonna happen it right then and there it'll take another good couple of chapters am I right?

chamelean75 · 2004-06-14, 00:15

Naruto is set. He'll die even if it's just to bring sasuke's body back. Heck maybe they'll just kill off each other. heheh.

Dementium · 2004-06-14, 00:20

Naruto will probably make sasuke realize he can still be strong even if he stays in the leaf...or something like that....Naruto beating Sasuke will prove that its not the village u go to that makes u strong....but the character
i mean the Sound 5 had cursed seals and they still got beaten by the Leaf and the Sand.....
so that wud be reason enuff to stay back i suppose....
as for the cursed seal.....it seems to be messing wif sasukes mind.....i mean hes even laughing like oro...serious sign of dementedness...

Last of the Uchiha · 2004-06-14, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamelean75

I don't think this part is a bluff. At this point, Sasuke has lost a lot of ability to reason and he is in no mental shape to bluff. Last of the Uchiha, you yourself said that killing itachi was sasuke's main goal, sure he wants to restart his clan, but if that were really a distant goal, do you really think that he would go to orochimaru. Do you really think that will power is enough to get rid of orochimaru? Everyone who is in league with oro is practically in love with him. Anyways, sasuke isn't gonna get through the gates to even reach orochimaru cause naruto is gonna drag his beaten body back to konoha. Also, remember that Kakashi said that Naruto had more potential chakra in him than himself and sasuke.

I do really think that was a bluff. He might not be in the best mental shape but he isn't stupid to let Orochimaru take over his body. Sasuke is to proud to be controllled or told what to do, especially if he lose the reason for his existence. I do think that will power will be enough to ger rid of Orochimaru. Also, what our fellow member Tramadrama mentioned the similarities between Vegeta and Sasuke's seals, and how Vegita broke the seal by his own will. Remember that Kishimoto is a big fan of DragonBall Z, so it wouldn't be surprising if history repeated itself. Coincidence, i think not. Yes, i did mentioned that Sasuke main goal is to kill Itachi and in order to do so he needs to be trained by Orochimaru. He know that his life and the chances of restoring his clan are in danger but its a risk he has taken in order to fullfil those things. Sasuke isn't like everyone else of the Sound. This fight will go to Sasuke because he is in control now. If Sasuke started saying at the begining of the fight " You won't be able lay a finger on me" or "Naruto i will kick your ass to oblivion" then i can agree with you that Sasuke would get his ass kicked and lose this fight, but that isn't the case. Sasuke hasn't understimate Naruto, he just "didn't care" about him anymore.

CastleOrange · 2004-06-14, 02:40

This thread is amazing. You guys are speculating more than FF7 fans after that movie sequel was announced.

Incredible!!

hunterx · 2004-06-14, 02:55

the fact is sasuke is coming back after this fight. There just isn't room for him to stay with oro for a long time. Either he comes back or they do a time skip. Besides naruto promised so he is coming back. I don't know why people go on about what level sasuke is on. He can never beat naruto. First reason, naruto is the hero. Second naruto has kyuubi chakra which appears whenever it looks like he is in real trouble. Sure sasuke may kick him around a bit but when naruto goes apeshit even a level 10 curse seal wouldn't matter at all.

Merco · 2004-06-14, 03:05

That would be all well and good with the Vegeta seal parallel, but Kishimoto also said that his favorite part of DBZ included everything before the Frieza Saga. (a bit of OT)

This seal isn't something that can be broken by simple willpower. Otherwise Sasuke would have easily done it, considering what he's already done with the seal. When I first how Sasuke got the cursed seal, I compared it more to poison at first. I suppose metaphorically it is more related to a poison... that can never get out of the system... and too much of it kills you... and... stuff.

(btw Uchiha, If you think Sasuke's behavior is a bluff, then how would you justify the argument regarding the parallel between when Sasuke first woke up with the seal and went nuts and this situation... seems rather similar... except with the aggression in a different direction)

I still think that while there still isn't a cure for the cursed seal, there still is a way to siphon out the second level... *maybe* Tsunade knows something about it. If that occurs, I'm thinking that Sasuke might be sane again, and realize how stupid it would be to be Oro's bitch / man-slave container

slippery shinobi · 2004-06-14, 04:17

surprisingly, lots of people here truly believe that sasukes gonna get back to konoha (or ''narutos gonna drag sasukes body back'' as they like to say it).
the winner of this fight is not important, it doesnt matter how much chakra/skill naruto/sasuke has cuz sasuke aint gonna return to konoha cuz the storyline doesnt want it (and you cant beat the storyline, heck not even kyubi can beat the storyline, if people think about that for awhile thered be less speculation in this forum)
thats why i think sasukes gonna win the match(maybe not the fight) and go to orochimaru-sama, who has great plans for him kukukukuku

CrispyBC · 2004-06-14, 04:31

Jiraiya probably would be able to get rid of the cursed seal.

Fasces · 2004-06-14, 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrispyBC

Jiraiya probably would be able to get rid of the cursed seal.

NFW! No way man. Not in a 1000 years, I bet.

Hey, Naruto will lose this one. He SHOULD have used all of his chakra (making a 1000 cloes

yeah right), and Sasuke is full of powaaah.

No more sasuke = yatta!
Naruto's turn to shine

Dementium · 2004-06-14, 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by slippery shinobi

surprisingly, lots of people here truly believe that sasukes gonna get back to konoha (or ''narutos gonna drag sasukes body back'' as they like to say it).
the winner of this fight is not important, it doesnt matter how much chakra/skill naruto/sasuke has cuz sasuke aint gonna return to konoha cuz the storyline doesnt want it (and you cant beat the storyline, heck not even kyubi can beat the storyline, if people think about that for awhile thered be less speculation in this forum)
thats why i think sasukes gonna win the match(maybe not the fight) and go to orochimaru-sama, who has great plans for him kukukukuku

The storyline will be what Kishimoto wants it to be,not what Sasuke fans want it to be.

Theres every possibility Naruto will win and vice versa.Like someone mentioned earlier this is Kishimoto'sstory and if he wants to he can make Sasuke staying back in Konoha fit in the story somehow.

nh1 · 2004-06-14, 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by slippery shinobi

the winner of this fight is not important, it doesnt matter how much chakra/skill naruto/sasuke has cuz sasuke aint gonna return to konoha cuz the storyline doesnt want it (and you cant beat the storyline, heck not even kyubi can beat the storyline, if people think about that for awhile thered be less speculation in this forum)

And you know the storyline? Isn't that when the story becomes dull?

Quote:

thats why i think sasukes gonna win the match(maybe not the fight) and go to orochimaru-sama, who has great plans for him kukukukuku

Which has been predicted since the first chapter Orochimaru announced his plans about Sasuke. By then a lot of covers viewing Naruto on a toad, Sasuke on a snake and Sakura on a slug had been made... Someone needs to interfere, something needs to happen, Kishimoto needs to mess up the storyline...

UchihaNick · 2004-06-14, 11:48

ever thought about.. rasengan vs chidori? that sasuke might die? remember kakashi : in the worst case scenario it could kill sasuke - and if they decide to use it against each other..

Zek · 2004-06-14, 13:09

First of all, Naruto just fell off a huge waterfall. It doesn't matter how strong Kyuubi is or how determined Naruto is. I agree that Naruto is dead set on bringing Sasuke back and would probably die rather than turn back. There's no question that Naruto isn't simply going to give up, but that doesn't mean he'll suceed. Sasuke doesn't care about finishing his fight with Naruto; odds are that Naruto is out of the picture for now, and that Sasuke is just going to take off in the next chapter.

Even if Naruto somehow manages to make it back up the waterfall before Sasuke decides to leave(which I suppose could be possible if he brings out Kyuubi but he at least has to hit the bottom first and even in anime physics that's going to hurt), I would be extremely surprised if he wins the fight and brings Sasuke home. As has been said already, Sasuke is beyond reasoning right now. Nothing Naruto can do will convince him to stay in Konoha even if he's brought back. If Naruto actually beats him then he'll only become more obsessed with attaining more power, and he'll go to Oro again the first chance he gets.

Sasuke's not coming back to Konoha in this arc. Besides the obvious personality traits that guarantee his departure, it would also just be extremely boring for the plot and I can't imagine that's what the plan is for this storyline. Besides the immense amount of foreshadowing towards Sasuke heading off to Oro for power, Naruto winning yet another battle and proving his philosophy yet again is just a terrible way to end this arc. I hate to break it to you Naruto fans but the main character can't always be right. Naruto has had enough time in the sun lately, and it's in the best interest of his character and the story as a whole that he loses this one.

Dementium · 2004-06-14, 13:15

The main character is always rite.
Thats why hes called the main character.
But in this situation i think we'll just have to sit back and enjoy the fight
They will definitely be a fight...waterfall or no....the plot has been building up to a sasuke versus naruto fight from the beginning

Dementium · 2004-06-14, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by UchihaNick

ever thought about.. rasengan vs chidori? that sasuke might die? remember kakashi : in the worst case scenario it could kill sasuke - and if they decide to use it against each other..

Hows this for a bizarre theory?Sasuke gets killed and Naruto gets his sharingan
ala Kakashi.

Muad'Dib · 2004-06-14, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchiha

The part where Sasuke said that he doesn't care that Orochimaru takes over his body was more of a bluff as i have said before, because he wants to see, feel, hear, when he kill his brother by his own hands, not letting some else do the job. It was stated that the more you the cursed seal, the more you lose control of your will, no that automatically you become a slave. He need his humanity because he wants to rebuld his clan. He just wants to take care of priorities first and then worry about the restoration of the clan. His will power is what will save him when the time comes to get rid of Orochimaru influence, but not now.

Well, I don't know where you're getting the Sasuke wanting to see, feel, hear everything as he kills his brother. He hasn't stated, but I guess it's sorta natural, so I'll let that slide. But I wonder why you think he won't experience sensations when he's lost all his willpower. Judging from the other sound nin, they experienced feelings and sensations--it's just that they were completely and utterly devoted to Orochimaru.

The more you lose control of your will, by definition, the more you become slavish. Slaves do what the master tells them to do. The curse seal makes Orochimaru the master, the sealed the slave. It has become quite obvious to me at this point that if Sasuke is willing to abandon his friends for the pursuit of his revenge, then he would also be willing to abandon his willpower, in a matter of speaking.

He does not want to rebuild his clan. Stop making things up. In fact he explicitly stated he doesn't give a crap about the future--only about the past. In essence, he cares only about revenge.

Narutto Kyuubi · 2004-06-14, 14:48

Also, why would Oro train sasuke new jutsus it would be a waste of his time, He doesnt need to teach sasuke anything because Oro doesnt need sasuke to know the jutsus if he is just taking his body. Sasuke could end up like the poeple in Oro dungeun or Kimimaro on a hospital bed untill the time comes that Oro wants his body.

2004-06-13, 23:43	Link #182
chamelean75 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004	I don't think this part is a bluff. At this point, Sasuke has lost a lot of ability to reason and he is in no mental shape to bluff. Last of the Uchiha, you yourself said that killing itachi was sasuke's main goal, sure he wants to restart his clan, but if that were really a distant goal, do you really think that he would go to orochimaru. Do you really think that will power is enough to get rid of orochimaru? Everyone who is in league with oro is practically in love with him. Anyways, sasuke isn't gonna get through the gates to even reach orochimaru cause naruto is gonna drag his beaten body back to konoha. Also, remember that Kakashi said that Naruto had more potential chakra in him than himself and sasuke.

2004-06-14, 00:15	Link #184
chamelean75 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Naruto is set. He'll die even if it's just to bring sasuke's body back. Heck maybe they'll just kill off each other. heheh.

2004-06-14, 00:20	Link #185
Dementium Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	Naruto will probably make sasuke realize he can still be strong even if he stays in the leaf...or something like that....Naruto beating Sasuke will prove that its not the village u go to that makes u strong....but the character i mean the Sound 5 had cursed seals and they still got beaten by the Leaf and the Sand..... so that wud be reason enuff to stay back i suppose.... as for the cursed seal.....it seems to be messing wif sasukes mind.....i mean hes even laughing like oro...serious sign of dementedness...

2004-06-14, 02:40	Link #187
CastleOrange Member Join Date: Apr 2004	This thread is amazing. You guys are speculating more than FF7 fans after that movie sequel was announced. Incredible!!

2004-06-14, 02:55	Link #188
hunterx ore wa kanpeki da Join Date: Nov 2003	the fact is sasuke is coming back after this fight. There just isn't room for him to stay with oro for a long time. Either he comes back or they do a time skip. Besides naruto promised so he is coming back. I don't know why people go on about what level sasuke is on. He can never beat naruto. First reason, naruto is the hero. Second naruto has kyuubi chakra which appears whenever it looks like he is in real trouble. Sure sasuke may kick him around a bit but when naruto goes apeshit even a level 10 curse seal wouldn't matter at all.

2004-06-14, 03:05	Link #189
Merco I like pie Join Date: Nov 2003	That would be all well and good with the Vegeta seal parallel, but Kishimoto also said that his favorite part of DBZ included everything before the Frieza Saga. (a bit of OT) This seal isn't something that can be broken by simple willpower. Otherwise Sasuke would have easily done it, considering what he's already done with the seal. When I first how Sasuke got the cursed seal, I compared it more to poison at first. I suppose metaphorically it is more related to a poison... that can never get out of the system... and too much of it kills you... and... stuff. (btw Uchiha, If you think Sasuke's behavior is a bluff, then how would you justify the argument regarding the parallel between when Sasuke first woke up with the seal and went nuts and this situation... seems rather similar... except with the aggression in a different direction) I still think that while there still isn't a cure for the cursed seal, there still is a way to siphon out the second level... maybe Tsunade knows something about it. If that occurs, I'm thinking that Sasuke might be sane again, and realize how stupid it would be to be Oro's bitch / man-slave container

2004-06-14, 04:17	Link #190
slippery shinobi serious member Join Date: May 2004 Age: 38	surprisingly, lots of people here truly believe that sasukes gonna get back to konoha (or ''narutos gonna drag sasukes body back'' as they like to say it). the winner of this fight is not important, it doesnt matter how much chakra/skill naruto/sasuke has cuz sasuke aint gonna return to konoha cuz the storyline doesnt want it (and you cant beat the storyline, heck not even kyubi can beat the storyline, if people think about that for awhile thered be less speculation in this forum) thats why i think sasukes gonna win the match(maybe not the fight) and go to orochimaru-sama, who has great plans for him kukukukuku

2004-06-14, 04:31	Link #191
CrispyBC Member Join Date: Mar 2004	Jiraiya probably would be able to get rid of the cursed seal.

2004-06-14, 11:48	Link #195
UchihaNick Peacemaker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Journeying around the world	ever thought about.. rasengan vs chidori? that sasuke might die? remember kakashi : in the worst case scenario it could kill sasuke - and if they decide to use it against each other..

2004-06-14, 13:09	Link #196
Zek Eyebrows... Join Date: May 2004 Age: 37	First of all, Naruto just fell off a huge waterfall. It doesn't matter how strong Kyuubi is or how determined Naruto is. I agree that Naruto is dead set on bringing Sasuke back and would probably die rather than turn back. There's no question that Naruto isn't simply going to give up, but that doesn't mean he'll suceed. Sasuke doesn't care about finishing his fight with Naruto; odds are that Naruto is out of the picture for now, and that Sasuke is just going to take off in the next chapter. Even if Naruto somehow manages to make it back up the waterfall before Sasuke decides to leave(which I suppose could be possible if he brings out Kyuubi but he at least has to hit the bottom first and even in anime physics that's going to hurt), I would be extremely surprised if he wins the fight and brings Sasuke home. As has been said already, Sasuke is beyond reasoning right now. Nothing Naruto can do will convince him to stay in Konoha even if he's brought back. If Naruto actually beats him then he'll only become more obsessed with attaining more power, and he'll go to Oro again the first chance he gets. Sasuke's not coming back to Konoha in this arc. Besides the obvious personality traits that guarantee his departure, it would also just be extremely boring for the plot and I can't imagine that's what the plan is for this storyline. Besides the immense amount of foreshadowing towards Sasuke heading off to Oro for power, Naruto winning yet another battle and proving his philosophy yet again is just a terrible way to end this arc. I hate to break it to you Naruto fans but the main character can't always be right. Naruto has had enough time in the sun lately, and it's in the best interest of his character and the story as a whole that he loses this one.

2004-06-14, 13:15	Link #197
Dementium Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	The main character is always rite. Thats why hes called the main character. But in this situation i think we'll just have to sit back and enjoy the fight They will definitely be a fight...waterfall or no....the plot has been building up to a sasuke versus naruto fight from the beginning

2004-06-14, 14:48	Link #200
Narutto Kyuubi Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	Also, why would Oro train sasuke new jutsus it would be a waste of his time, He doesnt need to teach sasuke anything because Oro doesnt need sasuke to know the jutsus if he is just taking his body. Sasuke could end up like the poeple in Oro dungeun or Kimimaro on a hospital bed untill the time comes that Oro wants his body.