[Mai Otome] Episode 20 Discussion/Poll

[Starks]

Hmmm... Gakutenou, Ketos, and at least 2 others...

[Tremalkinger]

From left to right... Midori's Gakutenou, ???, Lumen's Kedos, ???.

If I were to hazard a wild guess, I'd say the first unknown is probably Rad's, then the fourth is Dyne's.

[Pazu]

Because everybody discussing Tomoe X Shizuru scene and somebody complains that there is not enough posts, I'll add my word.
I remember that in ep 10 discussion thread some people admired Shizuru's calmness during combat. They liked that her face showed no emotions. That facing danger she was absolutely cool.
But now, when she does exacltly the same, people don't like it and want her to show more emotions. I just found it really funny.

[cry]

this episode was really interesting.

we finally saw the encounter between nina and sergey (sergey was really cold when he ordered his men"kill them!" !) nina is annoying with his otou-sama complex.
she wants him to look at her in another way, but his current behaviour is really not accurate (she's just becoming more and more like a puppet who obeys to nagi and serves sergey like a maid, where are her dreams and hopes, her personality, her opinions?? how can sergey loves her this way ?)

arika's crisis was really long too midori's discussion about otomes was clear, the way people uses otomes makes them "good" or "bad" (it's subjective...)...

about tomoe and shizuru... i didn't expect tomoe to do this now (maybe in a desperate situation...) i wanna know how shizuru will return the situation.

i hope mikoto's phantom will kick nina's ass

[ltorivia485]

Hey, does anyone know why I cannot open Mai Hime episode 20? Am I missing a codec or something?

[FlyByNite]

It is so appropriate after Mai Hime that Shizuru has a crazed lesbian girl in love with her...

Karma indeed.

Looks like next ep shows Mikoto in non-shadow mode too... Sweet

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by FlyByNite

It is so appropriate after Mai Hime that Shizuru has a crazed lesbian girl in love with her...

Karma indeed.

Looks like next ep shows Mikoto in non-shadow mode too... Sweet

I disagree.

Tomoe has never really been crazy.

She knows exactly what she is doing; getting what she wants.
From the way Tomoe treated Miya, I had deducted that the girl isn't in love.

Do you know what's the difference between love and lust?

Lust makes you want to have some one. Love makes you want someone to be happy.

And so far, I detected no signs of love from Tomoe at all. Miya, on the other hand, was indeed in love. Miya never gave Tomoe up as her puppetmaster, even when she lost everything. I fail to see Tomoe making any sort of personal sacrifices for Shizuru anytime in the future.

[Kourin]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I disagree.

Tomoe has never really been crazy.

She knows exactly what she is doing; getting what she wants.
From the way Tomoe treated Miya, I had deducted that the girl isn't in love.

Do you know what's the difference between love and lust?

Lust makes you want to have some one. Love makes you want someone to be happy.

And so far, I detected no signs of love from Tomoe at all. Miya, on the other hand, was indeed in love. Miya never gave Tomoe up as her puppetmaster, even when she lost everything. I fail to see Tomoe making any sort of personal sacrifices for Shizuru anytime in the future.

While Tomoe may not completely love Shizuru selflessly, I think she does care about Shizuru and that it's not purely lust. Besides, love could be just as selfish and possessive as lust. "Love makes you want someone to be happy" is really more of an ideal of love which not many can boast of being capable of doing when the situation arises.

anyways, Tomoe: First, Tomoe loses emotional control whenever she's before Shizuru with all the blushing and looking guilty when she lied about Natsuki. She had done it with a straight face all the other times, it's in front of Shizuru that she gets this way.

Then there was when when she and Irina were used as hostages and Shizuru surrendered. Tomoe looked guilty and even took it upon herself to 'save' Shizuru. If Tomoe was truly that selfish and evil, she wouldn't have these reactions.

While her methods are more on the possessive and damaging ends, she's not the first one. People have done some really crazy things for love that isn't always the smartest or most caring thing.

So... IMO, Tomoe is in love (not there to love yet) and since it's unrequited, it has gone on to become obssessive but it doesn't mean that she doesn't care about Shizuru or that she isn't in love with her. Just that when push comes to shove... better have Shizuru than nothing at all.

[Fishbait]

Ok ok ok...

What is up with the preview!?

Why are there all these toys and diaper crap in the room and ShizTom looking happiy at eachother!??!

HUH?

HUH??

HUH???

Anyways....

Good episode, was kind boring to be honest untill the ShizTom scene lol

And the animation definitely dropped a tier =[

[Matrim]

First, Tomoe loses emotional control whenever she's before Shizuru with all the blushing and looking guilty when she lied about Natsuki. She had done it with a straight face all the other times, it's in front of Shizuru that she gets this way.

Yes, just look at Tomoe's face when she was talking with Shizuru in this episode and tell me she is not in love with her. And remember she seemed genuinely distressed when Shizuru was captured and blamed herself for it. If she only felt lust she would have just celebrated when Shizuru was captured since that would have given her a perfect chance to have Shizuru for herself.

[AssistantArinkoBully]

In case people missed it. check out the frame in 7:28. It's the thing that Rena put the baby in. So that makes Nina Rena's daughter, Arika = the queen and Mashiro =??

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

So... IMO, Tomoe is in love (not there to love yet) and since it's unrequited, it has gone on to become obssessive but it doesn't mean that she doesn't care about Shizuru or that she isn't in love with her. Just that when push comes to shove... better have Shizuru than nothing at all.

Well... You are entitled to your opinions, but my views are generated by the fact that Tomoe treats almost everyone like objects. Specifically, the way she treats Arika and Miya, as well as what she's done to Erstin.

If she cares about Shizuru as a person, she would be making escape plans for her by now. They are certainly not being monitored, otherwise she wouldn't be being intimate...

If she is more interested in winning Shizuru's heart, there are still chances for her to prove that. But she chose to keep her "reward" instead. As such I can't call it love. She chose Shizuru's body over her heart, and that's no romance in anyone's book.

[Kourin]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Well... You are entitled to your opinions, but my views are generated by the fact that Tomoe treats almost everyone like objects. Specifically, the way she treats Arika and Miya, as well as what she's done to Erstin.

And because Tomoe treats everybody else as objects, it makes Shizuru a special case and thereby making it love/care. Miya sacrificed a lot for her but she didn't bat a lash. Shizuru's surrendering moved her though as shown through her pained expression when she bribed the guard to see Shizuru.

If she cares about Shizuru as a person, she would be making escape plans for her by now. They are certainly not being monitored, otherwise she wouldn't be being intimate...

They could possibly be monitored. As I was talking to Kieli earlier (whole different context as to how Sergay reacted to the request. Sergay(thought): "So the rumours are true about Garderobe students...Mmm... I wonder about Nina"), the room could be bugged. I mean, it'd be smart to keep tabs on a pillar without the heavy-duty cuffs even if the place is locked up pretty tight and Tomoe isn't there all the time.

If she is more interested in winning Shizuru's heart, there are still chances for her to prove that. But she chose to keep her "reward" instead. As such I can't call it love. She chose Shizuru's body over her heart, and that's no romance in anyone's book.

Tomoe has been rejected pretty thoroughly before. She knows she doesn't stand a chance. It's like "Since I can't have you, I'd have to settle for second best... aka the body." In no way is what Tomoe doing appealing or ethical but there is a factor of care and being in love in her actions.

I guess we differ in our definition of love. As i mentioned in my previous post, love could be selfish and possessive. Your notiong of love is more of an ideal of love/romantic view of love to me.

[Mysticmidnightmaiden]

Originally Posted by FlyByNite

It is so appropriate after Mai Hime that Shizuru has a crazed lesbian girl in love with her...
Karma indeed.

LOL.

I'm surprised no one has said anything about the blatent image of the princess's cradle during Nina's flashback. I doubt that it points to Nina being the princess. After all, why would someone keep a cradle boat for five years?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I guess we differ in our definition of love. As i mentioned in my previous post, love could be selfish and possessive. Your notiong of love is more of an ideal of love/romantic view of love to me.

Fair enough.

For me, the word "Love" is like "Justice" or "Fairness". Something that is worth striving for, but is in the end an ideal that is just out of reach.

Just another thing... Perhaps I am dismissing Tomoe's feelings because she seemed to have given up too quickly. She's what? 14~15 years old? Settling for second-best is too soon, and a cop-out in my opinion.

I am saying she took the easy way out without finding out if there is really a chance for her... It's not like she was actually rejected or anything, she never truly let her feelings be known verbally. Fighting for someone's love is much harder than just locking her up and treating her like a pet-animal.

[Icemera]

Originally Posted by FlyByNite

It is so appropriate after Mai Hime that Shizuru has a crazed lesbian girl in love with her...

Karma indeed.

LOL.

animation: did sunrise change their animators or what? everybody looked weird in this ep.

yukino/haruka: so nice to see them again.

Shiz/Tomoe: kinda expected it and kinda liked it.

[Kieli]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Just another thing... Perhaps I am dismissing Tomoe's feelings because she seemed to have given up too quickly. She's what? 14~15 years old? Settling for second-best is too soon, and a cop-out in my opinion.

One wonders if she has been indeed trying pretty hard all along. We're never really given enough of a glimpse into her efforts prior to the takeover of the school other than the hiking test and her running after Shizuru before she left on Natsuki's errand. She may really have tried (within reason) to vie for Shizuru's attentions. We only really get to see the scheming side of Tomoe more often than not.

I am saying she took the easy way out without finding out if there is really a chance for her... It's not like she was actually rejected or anything, she never truly let her feelings be known verbally.

Like you said before, she's a teen and for the most part, it's hard to express one's feelings to the object of their affection, even for an adult! I also get the feeling that she may not have come right out and said anything for the fear of rejection. Fear can make one very tongue-tied when loquaciousness would be better. Just a thought.

Fighting for someone's love is much harder than just locking her up and treating her like a pet-animal.

*shudder* I wouldn't call that fighting for her love, mostly just owning her like any other possession. When all else fails, tie her up. I agree, that's a little too desperate seeming.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Mysticmidnightmaiden

LOL. After all, why would someone keep a cradle boat for five years?

Decoration?

Afterall it's the only thing in that scene/place that like you know...stood out

[Kourin]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Fair enough.

For me, the word "Love" is like "Justice" or "Fairness". Something that is worth striving for, but is in the end an ideal that is just out of reach.

very true... for an ideal to work, it takes way too many people to realize it and that's where all the problem starts.

Just another thing... Perhaps I am dismissing Tomoe's feelings because she seemed to have given up too quickly. She's what? 14~15 years old? Settling for second-best is too soon, and a cop-out in my opinion.

I am saying she took the easy way out without finding out if there is really a chance for her... It's not like she was actually rejected or anything, she never truly let her feelings be known verbally. Fighting for someone's love is much harder than just locking her up and treating her like a pet-animal.

Tomoe actually wanted to confess but Shizuru promptly cut her off and told her that she resembled her younger self and that Tomoe should look forward, hence the rejection. Shizuru is well aware of Tomoe's feelings hence the lack of surprise when Tomoe went in for the kiss.

As for opting out too quickly: that really depends on how Tomoe thinks. Since Shizuru has rejected her and going with kieli's post that Tomoe has been trying for some time (wouldn't be surprised if Tomoe obsessed since the day she enrolled or even attended Garderobe for Shizuru), she probably figured this was the best deal she could get.

it's very possible that Tomoe feels it's the only way she could have Shizuru. Shizuru is very popular and admired by many, almost as if on a pedestal. It's quite intimidating to love someone like that. And here was the chance of a lifetime... to have Shizuru without anybody else as competition in sight. It's an appealing choice.

Even if she does the right thing, being the smart girl she is, Tomoe probably figured she'd get nothing but the 'nice person' praise or a 'thank you' note. Compared to actually getting Shizuru in some manner... for someone obsessive, the owning has an edge.

[ifhaseth]

Originally Posted by Icemera

animation: did sunrise change their animators or what? everybody looked weird in this ep.

Most series have a lead animator (in this case Hirokazu Hisayuki) who's in charge of the overall appearance of the series, but the actual scenes are usually drawn by other artists, each with their own styles, which is why the animation goes through "stages" of good and bad.

Although it seems like they went back in the DVD releases and "fixed" some of the more apparent problems that they let slide in the TV version.

Spoiler for DVD left, TV right:

Another reason to buy the DVD's when they come out. If nothing else, Sunrise sure is good at marketing.