Fate/stay night Game discussion (Warning: Spoilers)

[willyvereb]

lol...hwo? The sheath contains mana? It's somehow a paradox, but then it's the same as my theory.
When Shirou traces a NP he not only copies the weapon, mimics it's wielder(sometimes even in terms of speed and strenght), but brings out the neccessary mana to use it.
It means the only thing prevents him from using Excalibur his low amount of Magic Circuits(actually it's somehow reasonable. He has 27 while Touko from KnK only 20).

[orangejuicetang]

But Shirou's magic circuits are low quality while Touku's are very high quality or something. Or that basically each of Touko's magic circuits can channel and store much more mana at one time than Shirou.

[frenze12]

Excalibur doesn't have a set mana requirement, it is a magic amplifier with a max output of rank A++. The strenght of the beam depends on how much mana there is put in. (see fate route saber's excalibur vs berserker = BAD END)
The capacity of shirou's magic cirquit isn't consisted so he might be capable to use a full power exa blast.

[willyvereb]

Yeah, but we need 200-300 prana to actually start it. Then you can add as much as you can, but this is the minimum. Otherwise we would see miniature excalibur blasts all the time after she revealed her identity.
And Nasu stated that both Archer and Shirou is unable to use Excalibur without dying in the process.

And Touko may have better quality magic Circuits but they still only caopable to store 10 prana units per piece. But Touko's magic is more advanced and she uses quite an amount of magic devices.
Just to mention: Aozaki Aoko who's capable of destroying a whole city has just one Magic Circuit(10 prana), but she's a sorcerer with the 5th Magic. It's ability is unrevealed, but she's able to use magic with extreme low price.

[orangejuicetang]

True, but then again, this is of course thrown out when plot is needed. Unless Avalon takes less mana to project than Excalibur, which would be odd.

[willyvereb]

No...Porjecting for Shirou is already a breach of the rules of magic.
A normal projection is about cost him 5 units of prana. If I remember well Avalon takes 25.
It's because of the "difficulty" of projecting non-weapon things for Shirou and Because of the Avalon's rank. For Example Projecting Excalibur takes maybe about 10 prana.
Perhaps there's the other dilemma: Did he projected the required prana with it to use or not. Because without that Shirou would have problems with his prana capacity and we don't have a proper explanation behind Saber's sudden incerace of Prana(I mean she used Excalibur 3-4 times in the final fight).

[orangejuicetang]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

No...Porjecting for Shirou is already a breach of the rules of magic.
A normal projection is about cost him 5 units of prana. If I remember well Avalon takes 25.
It's because of the "difficulty" of projecting non-weapon things for Shirou and Because of the Avalon's rank. For Example Projecting Excalibur takes maybe about 10 prana.
Perhaps there's the other dilemma: Did he projected the required prana with it to use or not. Because without that Shirou would have problems with his prana capacity and we don't have a proper explanation behind Saber's sudden incerace of Prana(I mean she used Excalibur 3-4 times in the final fight).

... Isn't the first part what I said? Avalon should cost more for Shirou to project than Excalibur, and Avalon should cost more for Shirou to use than Excalibur.

[willyvereb]

Actually we don't know how exactly Avalon works. But every route's finale has one of those plot errors. First of all how the heck he managed to project Avalon inside that mud? And how he managed to project it that fast? He usually projected a sword in a minute. And Avalon's projection is much harder even if it's perfect image engraved inside him.
And let's not mention UBW's finale...If Nasu keeps up all of the rules then Shirou should've died almost a dozen of times at that fight.

[frenze12]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Actually we don't know how exactly Avalon works. But every route's finale has one of those plot errors. First of all how the heck he managed to project Avalon inside that mud? And how he managed to project it that fast? He usually projected a sword in a minute. And Avalon's projection is much harder even if it's perfect image engraved inside him.
And let's not mention UBW's finale...If Nasu keeps up all of the rules then Shirou should've died almost a dozen of times at that fight.

Avalon was inside of shirou for 10 year's it became a part of him so much that it left an imprint on shirou's soul and if you know how his reality marble works this shouldn't to hard to figure. And for all we know activating avalon might not even need mana or very little.

[willyvereb]

Yeah, but magic is magic. And projection is projection. In the midle of that unearthly pain he managed to project, no use magic is some kind of miracle. Not to mention Avalon uses up quite an amount of prana to project. And it's still time even if he perfectly memorised it.

[frenze12]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Yeah, but magic is magic. And projection is projection. In the midle of that unearthly pain he managed to project, no use magic is some kind of miracle. Not to mention Avalon uses up quite an amount of prana to project. And it's still time even if he perfectly memorised it.

As you can see it is not mere memorising the sheath but it's kinda like he already had it finished and only needed to bring it out. So the only problem here is the "no concentration" and "instantly" part.

If i had to explain it with a word I would call it experience.

Experience in a sence that shirou has either traced the object many times or has plenty of knowledge of.

example: archer vs lancer, first meeting

They landed over a hundred blows and every blow disarmed archer. If we go by the rule "projection cost 5 mana units than archer already lost more than 500 mana. this is almost half of archer total (estimated around 1200). Do you see the contradiction here?

I could also bring the example of archer (UBW route) still using projection (a lot) even after he so called was out of mana. Regardless of the matter that a part of it could be plot armor it still holds a lot of meaning.

[orangejuicetang]

If Archer had around 1200 mana, than why the hell couldn't he use excalibur without dying in the process if it only cost 200-300? That's enough for 4-6 shots. Unless, it meant that he couldn't trace it and use it as a broken phantasm without dying.

[frenze12]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

If Archer had around 1200 mana, than why the hell couldn't he use excalibur without dying in the process if it only cost 200-300? That's enough for 4-6 shots. Unless, it meant that he couldn't trace it and use it as a broken phantasm without dying.

There is a difference between the mana you can store and the mana you bring out at a single moment. Thanks to this Rin had a change against Dark Sakura in Heavens feel(because their output was the same).
Also we are talking about the max output for excaliber. With 200-300 you only get a lower powered one, max output is more close to 800-1000.

[Aqua Knight]

Excalibur doesn't fit into Archer's style. His techniques are based agile,swift and not mana consuming NF thus he's Archer and not Saber class. Excalibur, for him, will be too slow to trace because it's hard to make such a great NF. Therefore, he doesn't use it.

[frenze12]

Originally Posted by 17th_warrior

Excalibur doesn't fit into Archer's style. His techniques are based agile,swift and not mana consuming NF thus he's Archer and not Saber class. Excalibur, for him, will be too slow to trace because it's hard to make such a great NF. Therefore, he doesn't use it.

If the moment arrives and there is no other choice he would do it. Just see shirou in heaven's feel. So you really can't say that he would NEVER use it.

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Perhaps there's the other dilemma: Did he projected the required prana with it to use or not.

In heaven's feel at the ending he basically had no mana anymore and yet he used excaliber, so this might be true (note he died when projecting and the text told us it was like a machine that was programmed to wield the sword).

[Aqua Knight]

I mean Archer carved his style through ages( or I'd rather say dimensions?),maybe he used it once or twice we don't know, but still he prefers K&B.

[Romdeau]

Can anyone explain to me why F/S N is so bloody expensive? The cheapest I can find it for is around 84$ (not including the shipping ). I like great games as much as the next guy, but what kinda freakin' premium are we paying for here? I would be dropping over 100 dollars for 1 game!

[Apple Fiend]

In the visual novel can anyone tell me what days include the h scenes just so I know I'm not caught off guard, been trying to find it out.

Only days+route need to be listed.

[rastilin]

Can anyone explain to me why F/S N is so bloody expensive? The cheapest I can find it for is around 84$ (not including the shipping ). I like great games as much as the next guy, but what kinda freakin' premium are we paying for here? I would be dropping over 100 dollars for 1 game!

Well I paid $120 for Civ2 back when it was still being sold.

[orangejuicetang]

http://blstorage.manga-sketchbook.or...World/?C=M;O=A
It all makes sense now. This is how Shirou actually managed to defeat Gilgamesh. My eyes have been opened.