Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha ViVid Manga Discussion

[00-Raiser]

I dunno, "join the Bureau or go to jail" isn't exactly a sparkling example of free will...

[Mirron]

Lutecia says hey. They'd place a limiter on them and they'd get to live in essentially a paradise with people they care about, doing what they want with their time until they're shown thye aren't a danger to society.

[00-Raiser]

The initial idea was to stick them on an uninhabited world, though. Sure they made it as comfortable as possible but it was essentially a prison with no walls.

The Numbers were treated similarly too. "Work for us or get locked away." Of course this kind of thing happens in real life and one could argue that by breaking the law they forfiet their right to free will.

[Mirron]

Lutecia chose to live there, and really, she's on an entire planet. With her family. And she's clearly allowed to leave the planet, she probably can't just randomly leave it. That's... really, really good, especially considering she played a part in the potential destruction of the planet, or at least the government. Same goes for the Numbers.

I mean, that's really, really good. Most governments would just kill them, child or not, with what they could have done.

[Keroko]

Was it ever confirmed that the numbers were forced into the Bureau in the first place rather than them just choosing to work there? We still have Sein, Otto and Deed who went to work in the church as sisters rather than join the Bureau after all.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

"Still Children" doesn't really cut it as a valid reason when throughout history you have examples of various cultures who place adulthood at a very young age - certain African cultures have 13-year olds as "adults" for instance, and even throughout Europe and America up till the Industrial Revolution the age where one worked and became inducted into the adult world was seven years old.

A culture like Midchilda, which does not have the same values on what constitutes the limits of "childhood" as Earth (and as revealed actually have a biological reason to do so) would not view their children as "just children", but as "young adults", which seems to be in line with what we see in ViviD.

That said, many of the "children" we see in the Nanohaverse joined the TSAB out of their own volition, rather than coerced.

I don't care what culture, but 9yrs old is never considered a young adult. At the very least, they need to reach puberty. Third world countries tend to do a lot of ridiculous things that should not be condoned regardless of their culture. Just look at how most of them treat woman...

[Keroko]

In terms of magical growth, around 9 years is the start of puberty.

Biological puberty starts at 10 for girls. Which, surprise, is when Nanoha joined the Bureau.

[Demi.]

Puberty for girls is generally around 9-14. But it's hardly noticeable until they reach their teens. Though honestly, puberty is the most unstable and insecure moments of their lives. It's really a shitty time to pass them off as adults.

[Keroko]

Still puberty though.

But since I seem to have stirred a hornet's nest here, this is only a possible explanation of mine to give a reason to the apparent normal behavior the Mid Childran culture seems to have have towards young people joining their force.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Was it ever confirmed that the numbers were forced into the Bureau in the first place rather than them just choosing to work there? We still have Sein, Otto and Deed who went to work in the church as sisters rather than join the Bureau after all.

Still, they have to help out some sort of organization.

They made a choice, yes, but I'm just saying that the alternative was extremely more undesirable as to essentially give them no choice.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Still, they have to help out some sort of organization.

Well, yeah. Because, you know, people need money. And you get money from working. Mid Childa is not some utopia where you get everything for free. If you want to eat, you have to work. Them working =/= "work or jail."

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Still puberty though.

But since I seem to have stirred a hornet's nest here, this is only a possible explanation of mine to give a reason to the apparent normal behavior the Mid Childran culture seems to have have towards young people joining their force.

IRL doesn't have lolis with superpowers, so I think that's a good enough reason. They're protected here because they're weak, and unable to live on their own. Nanoha, Fate, etc...are anything but that.

They're still treated as perfectly normal children when they're not kicking butt, but I suppose they're too much of an asset to dismiss when needed. I don't think the TSAB would enlist a child who has virtually no magical aptitude.

[00-Raiser]

Them working is to atone for their crimes, not to get paid.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Them working is to atone for their crimes, not to get paid.

People keep saying that, but... source?

[Rising Dragon]

Frankly speaking, I'm okay with the TSAB having its "child soldiers", so to speak. These are, after all, a bunch of kids that can have the same destructive capabilities of weapons of mass destruction. Instilling a soldier's discipline in them at that age is a decidedly good idea, to help ensure they don't misuse their magic.

And besides, I doubt the TSAB really sends these young recruits into highly dangerous situations that could get them killed.

[Keroko]

*scratches head* They kinda do, really. I mean, we can excuse the first two seasons as circumstances, but Nanoha nearly got killed on a mission, and the fight against Jail wasn't exactly safe either for Erio and Caro.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Keroko

*scratches head* They kinda do, really. I mean, we can excuse the first two seasons as circumstances, but Nanoha nearly got killed on a mission, and the fight against Jail wasn't exactly safe either for Erio and Caro.

Let me point out that Nanoha's near-death experience wasn't because the mission was an inherently dangerous one. Shari, Signum, and Shamal pointed out to the Forwards that under normal circumstances, that attack that downed Nanoha would be something that she'd have no problem dealing with--it was her own strain from her training that nearly got her killed. That's simple user error and I don't think the TSAB can be faulted for that one. Plus, Shamal pointed out that the unit that took her down was an unidentified one--so the TSAB likely had no idea that the region was going to be dangerous. Add to the fact that she was also accompanied by Vita, a far more experienced and capable mage...

As for Jail, I daresay that's one of those special circumstances. After all, he was raising a weapon that would be invincible for all intents and purposes if it got into orbit.

[mielipuoli]

To be honest, life as a police officer, firefighter, or soldier (all three roles we see Bureau people performing) is going to be inherently dangerous, even on the simple things. Sometimes there's just an accident - a car accident for a cop, an wall collapse for a firefighter, or a helicopter crash for a soldier. Sometimes Murphy just shows up and taps you on the shoulder; it's something to consider.

Of course, the Bureau takes damn good care of its people, too.

[Keroko]

Yeah, but there's a difference between an accident and actively sending a young, inexperienced officer to deal with a barfight. The former is a risk of the trade, the later is bad judgment.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Let me point out that Nanoha's near-death experience wasn't because the mission was an inherently dangerous one. Shari, Signum, and Shamal pointed out to the Forwards that under normal circumstances, that attack that downed Nanoha would be something that she'd have no problem dealing with--it was her own strain from her training that nearly got her killed. That's simple user error and I don't think the TSAB can be faulted for that one. Plus, Shamal pointed out that the unit that took her down was an unidentified one--so the TSAB likely had no idea that the region was going to be dangerous. Add to the fact that she was also accompanied by Vita, a far more experienced and capable mage...

As for Jail, I daresay that's one of those special circumstances. After all, he was raising a weapon that would be invincible for all intents and purposes if it got into orbit.

Point, and not-so-point. Yeah, you're right I'd forgotten that they were attacked by an unknown force, but to call a mission not inherently dangerous because Nanoha would 'normally' be able to handle it is... a shaky way of defining dangerous.

As for StrikerS, RF6 was a unit which from the start was created to track down highly dangerous Lost Logia. They invited Erio and Caro knowing fully well their unit had a high chance of facing life-threatening situations.

Maybe "risk" takes on a different meaning for people facing it on a decently constant base.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Keroko

People keep saying that, but... source?

They said outright that their choices were cooperating with the Bureau or going to jail. Most of the younger Numbers chose the former, Uno, Tre, Quattro and Setta chose the latter.