Fate/ Series Q&A

[Touko]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

What did Nasu say exactly regarding the subject?

Ryougi Shiki can only fight average Servants defensively, i.e. not getting killed.

Tohno Shiki was not mentioned in the list as one that can fight Servants, so he is assumed to be incapable to do so.

[Doria]

Originally Posted by Touko

There are different versions. There are versions where she was a Faerie, and there are versions where she was blood-kin of Arthur.

They picked the specific one where incest was involved, made it purposeful instead of accidental, and further exploited it to make it more wtf. And that "making Sabre a futa" part just adds to the wtf.

It's lol Japan. Quit white-knighting. Even the production team and Type Moon felt it was wtf.

Except you make it sound like all these versions are equally well known and/or influential in British literature (originally) and later culture. This is not the case. What is the case, as even a lazy wikipedia search will reveal, is that for at least 700-800 years, Mordred has been widely and usually associated with incest in relation to Arthur (albeit with different women).

It is not that they happened to pick the single version where this is true. Most of the literary treatments of Arthur, which shape our modern understanding of the myth and legend, use a variant on this relationship.

(Now, the gender swapping... I have nothing really to say on that matter, if you're discussing that specifically. Clearly, that is taking some poetic license as the constraints of their particular story demanded. As far as that goes, I guess you're right if you're just saying it's lol fiction.)

[Touko]

Originally Posted by Doria

Except you make it sound like all these versions are equally well known and/or influential in British literature (originally) and later culture. This is not the case. What is the case, as even a lazy wikipedia search will reveal, is that for at least 700-800 years, Mordred has been widely and usually associated with incest in relation to Arthur (albeit with different women).

It is not that they happened to pick the single version where this is true. Most of the literary treatments of Arthur, which shape our modern understanding of the myth and legend, use a variant on this relationship.

If you are going to all Wikipedia on this, lol, then Wikipedia says the most prevalent version is that the incest was accidental.

Type Moon had to pick the version where the incest was committed intentionally and specifically by Morgan(if there was indeed such a version), with further malicious plans, and then throw in the futa.

I don't see how your "popular version" argument works. It's still "lol Japan".

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Polar_Lord

If Zero Berserker had been summoned as a sane Servant, would he still hate Saber enough to doggedly attack her at every chance?

I think Berserker dogged Saber in spite of the Mad Enhancement, not because of it. So if Zero Berserker had been sane, he probably would've attacked her even sooner and reveal himself even sooner too.

[Touko]

Originally Posted by Haak

I think Berserker dogged Saber in spite of the Mad Enhancement, not because of it. So if Zero Berserker had been sane, he probably would've attacked her even sooner and reveal himself even sooner too.

No, Lancelot activated Mad Enhancement himself because he recognized Sabre and did not want to face her as himself. Lancelot is kind of a shy (not sure if it's the right word, maybe introverted) and hardworking guy.

The rabid Lancelot you saw was a mixture of Lancelot's regret and insanity at work.

If he had no Mad Enhancement, it might actually force him to confront Sabre about all their issues eventually. It is very likely that it would have turned out differently.

[GDB]

I thought Mad Enhancement was activated when he was summoned via Zouken's two extra lines? I didn't think it was something that could be turned on/off like a light switch, outside of when they were on the brink of death (apparently...).

[Touko]

Originally Posted by GDB

I thought Mad Enhancement was activated when he was summoned via Zouken's two extra lines? I didn't think it was something that could be turned on/off like a light switch, outside of when they were on the brink of death (apparently...).

The verses were to place him into the Class.

Lancelot activated Mad Enhancement himself. And I don't think it was turned off ever after that.

EDIT:
Some more info.

Spoiler:

Also, in ye olde Fate/Stay Night, Mad Enhancement was not turned on until just before Hercules was killed.

""
A scream that shakes the earth.
The giant screams as if going insaneand its every ability increases as it deforms and swells.

"It can't be. You were just taking his reasoning away? You have not been using his berserker abilities all these times…!?"
Saber's voice is uneasy.
It's only natural for her to feel a shudder.
Even I, unable to tell how strong a warrior is, can sense that it is not to be messed with.

"Go…! Kill anything that nears you, Berserker…!"

[Doria]

Originally Posted by GDB

I thought Mad Enhancement was activated when he was summoned via Zouken's two extra lines? I didn't think it was something that could be turned on/off like a light switch, outside of when they were on the brink of death (apparently...).

I realize it's inconsistent with the quotation from FSN above, but I think this description is more accurate per Lancelot for FZ, at least based on the novels. It may be an inconsistency in the novels versus the game mechanics, but GDB's description is certainly how they at least ostensibly explain the way it works.

Very possible there is a clearer explanation in FSN itself, as quoted, but it does not seem to apply to Lancelot. Novel 4 clearly says that he's only able to revert to sanity after Kariya's death because the contract that forces the Mad Enhancement is then nullified. Hence, after Kariya dies, Lancelot starts to fade, but he's sane (or at least not Mad Enhanced) as he does.

It's in Act 16 of volume 4. I apologize for not having a specific page handy for you, but the book isn't nearby. Anyhow, they seem to state that he's released from the spell because the contract he was summoned under is gone.

[Touko]

Zero Material described that Lancelot chose to go into Mad Enhancement.

The part you quoted only talked about cancelling of Mad Enhancement, it did not talk about how it was activated. Mad Enhancement always cancels before the Servant poofs. See Hercules.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Touko

Zero Material described that Lancelot chose to go into Mad Enhancement.

The part you quoted only talked about cancelling of Mad Enhancement, it did not talk about how it was activated. Mad Enhancement always cancels before the Servant poofs. See Hercules.

He didn't activate it himself, when he was being called he welcomed the madness. Becoming a beast was the only way to be released from the shackles of being the ideal knight and express his hatred.

Spoiler for Light Novel Excerpt:

After all, that king had never blamed ‘him’ throughout life. Even when the king had gone to exchange blows with ‘he’ who had been discarded by the Round Table, it had been a helpless act to make an example out of ‘him’ with the country as their witness, and never the king’s original intention. For ‘him’, who had committed the greatest sin of betrayal, the king had always treated him with a pure and noble friendship even to the very end.

That noble king was so ‘correct’. How could anyone hate or despise that monarch?

However – if that was the case, then to whom should ‘his’ regret and her tears be dumped upon?


The hatred ‘he’ brought to the grave was extracted at the end of time’s long passage, and tormented ‘him’ for an eternity on the Throne of Heroes that had no end… And then ‘he’ finally heard the call from afar.

Come, mad beast.

Come, stubborn vengeful spirit. That sound from the end of time had called.

That sound woke ‘his’ long-held wish.

Had ‘he’ not been a knight.

Had 'he' been a beast knowing no honor and had no reason, had 'he' been a demon fallen into the league of beasts, maybe 'he' could have avenged this hatred and regret.

Yes, madness was the road to salvation.

A beast would not be lost. Therefore, it would not feel pain. No one expected anything of it, no one entrusted anything to it. If ‘he’ could become a beast and direct the movement of ‘his’ limbs with nothing but ‘his’ own desire –

This wish became the connection that linked ‘him’ with the end of time, and placed ‘him’ on this battlefield that ‘he’ cared and knew nothing about.

'He’ had long ago forgotten ‘his’ name, long ago forgotten ‘his’ disciplined vow. ‘His’ body only existed to perform the murderous skills that ‘his’ hands had long been drenched in. The pride that took shame in this no longer existed, and the heart that regretted was lost as well. This was who ‘he’ currently was – the existence called ‘Berserker’.

There were no regrets. To fall, to be freed, that was what ‘he’ had sought.

Moreover, the merciless hand of Fate had even arranged such an ironic rendezvous.

[Touko]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

He didn't activate it himself, when he was being called he welcomed the madness. Becoming a beast was the only way to be released from the shackles of being the ideal knight and express his hatred.

Spoiler for Light Novel Excerpt:

After all, that king had never blamed ‘him’ throughout life. Even when the king had gone to exchange blows with ‘he’ who had been discarded by the Round Table, it had been a helpless act to make an example out of ‘him’ with the country as their witness, and never the king’s original intention. For ‘him’, who had committed the greatest sin of betrayal, the king had always treated him with a pure and noble friendship even to the very end.

That noble king was so ‘correct’. How could anyone hate or despise that monarch?

However – if that was the case, then to whom should ‘his’ regret and her tears be dumped upon?


The hatred ‘he’ brought to the grave was extracted at the end of time’s long passage, and tormented ‘him’ for an eternity on the Throne of Heroes that had no end… And then ‘he’ finally heard the call from afar.

Come, mad beast.

Come, stubborn vengeful spirit. That sound from the end of time had called.

That sound woke ‘his’ long-held wish.

Had ‘he’ not been a knight.

Had 'he' been a beast knowing no honor and had no reason, had 'he' been a demon fallen into the league of beasts, maybe 'he' could have avenged this hatred and regret.

Yes, madness was the road to salvation.

A beast would not be lost. Therefore, it would not feel pain. No one expected anything of it, no one entrusted anything to it. If ‘he’ could become a beast and direct the movement of ‘his’ limbs with nothing but ‘his’ own desire –

This wish became the connection that linked ‘him’ with the end of time, and placed ‘him’ on this battlefield that ‘he’ cared and knew nothing about.

'He’ had long ago forgotten ‘his’ name, long ago forgotten ‘his’ disciplined vow. ‘His’ body only existed to perform the murderous skills that ‘his’ hands had long been drenched in. The pride that took shame in this no longer existed, and the heart that regretted was lost as well. This was who ‘he’ currently was – the existence called ‘Berserker’.

There were no regrets. To fall, to be freed, that was what ‘he’ had sought.

Moreover, the merciless hand of Fate had even arranged such an ironic rendezvous.

It was his rationale for answering the call. Embracing the summon does not mean instant activation of Mad Enhancement.

Spoiler:

In contrast to her young appearance, she hated whining.
Everything that came out of her mouth was an insult.
She must have instinctively known that if she was going to murmur something, she would get stronger when she would insult and hate someone.
The girl scorned Berserker for being ugly and cursed his existence.
It was only natural.
The girl would not have had to suffer if he had not existed.
She would not have been thrown in hell if she had not been chosen as a Master.

The girl insulted the giant every chance she got and used him to take out her anger.
The pain had lessened by the time she mastered Berserker's control, which was when the Holy Grail showed signs of its appearance.
The girl took away the giant's sanity as if in revenge, treating him as a "mad warrior".
But he already knew that this was the girl's desperate opposition.

Both Fate/Stay Night and Zero Materials suggested that someone, be it Master or Servant, activates Mad Enhancement. The Fate/Zero novel is ambiguous.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Touko

It was his rationale for answering the call. Embracing the summon does not mean instant activation of Mad Enhancement.

Spoiler:

In contrast to her young appearance, she hated whining.
Everything that came out of her mouth was an insult.
She must have instinctively known that if she was going to murmur something, she would get stronger when she would insult and hate someone.
The girl scorned Berserker for being ugly and cursed his existence.
It was only natural.
The girl would not have had to suffer if he had not existed.
She would not have been thrown in hell if she had not been chosen as a Master.

The girl insulted the giant every chance she got and used him to take out her anger.
The pain had lessened by the time she mastered Berserker's control, which was when the Holy Grail showed signs of its appearance.
The girl took away the giant's sanity as if in revenge, treating him as a "mad warrior".
But he already knew that this was the girl's desperate opposition.

Both Fate/Stay Night and Zero Materials suggested that someone, be it Master or Servant, activates Mad Enhancement. The Fate/Zero novel is ambiguous.

What do you mean with Zero Material the light novel or some other source?

[mAc Chaos]

There's some supplementary materials for both FSN and Fate/Zero called the Materials Collection.

[demino_hellsin]

so mad enhancement is self-doping by the servant? And they have a choice in the matter?

[Touko]

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

so mad enhancement is self-doping by the servant? And they have a choice in the matter?

Either by Master or Servant.

Although it seems like you can't turn it off once you turn it on.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Touko

Either by Master or Servant.

Although it seems like you can't turn it off once you turn it on.

Has there ever been a Berserker without Mad Enhancement?

[Touko]

Berserkers always get Mad Enhancement, because it is a skill that comes with the Container.

You are guaranteed to get it, as long as you are Berserker.

[demino_hellsin]

so it's not confirmed that mad enhancement can't be turned off?

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Touko

Berserkers always get Mad Enhancement, because it is a skill that comes with the Container.

You are guaranteed to get it, as long as you are Berserker.

Your contradicting yourself. How is Mad Enhancement a choice if every Berserk gets it.

Originally Posted by Touko

Zero Material described that Lancelot chose to go into Mad Enhancement.

The part you quoted only talked about cancelling of Mad Enhancement, it did not talk about how it was activated. Mad Enhancement always cancels before the Servant poofs. See Hercules.

Originally Posted by Touko

Spoiler:

Also, in ye olde Fate/Stay Night, Mad Enhancement was not turned on until just before Hercules was killed.

But this part is strange, it suggest Mad Enhancement is a choice.

[demino_hellsin]

I think he means that you get mad enhancement, but there's a choice not to activate it.