2012-08-22, 17:26 | Link #1521 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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I'm not calling it a crime or a fault to express hidden emotions, but I don't like it when people set aside "emotional outbursts" as distinct from the idea of the self. I look at such measures as just another form of rationalization. An emotional outburst is simply another expression of the self just like some impartial decision you have to make one time or another.
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2012-08-22, 17:29 | Link #1522 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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On the other hand Taichi reacts only on what he sees, never on a deeper level. In that he is consistent. He is a shallow white knight. And Inaba is quite a master in hiding herself. Well, not truly, but it is assumed that she is.
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2012-08-22, 17:33 | Link #1523 |
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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I'm not sure if the term "white knight" is fully accurate here. In internet slang, doesn't it also carry the connotation that whoever's doing the rescuing is doing so for some sort of reward? As far as I can tell, Taichi's doing it just to make people happy, not even expecting to be thanked. There's no ulterior motive here - like these stories tend to go, the closer friendships he's getting with the girls around him (mostly) seem to happen by accident. He may fit the first part of the definition, but I've yet to see any evidence he fits the second.
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2012-08-22, 17:38 | Link #1524 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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2012-08-22, 17:41 | Link #1525 |
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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Though from my perspective, making someone happier is a net reward for both the person benefiting from it and the person acting on it. The whole utilitarian thing. I can see how it's selfish, but I don't fully agree with that assessment. I think this is about as far as I can take the debate, but I stand by what I've said for the past several episodes. I agree with Taichi's general philosophy.
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2012-08-22, 17:45 | Link #1526 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
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But as for these outbursts, it's hard to analyse them (for me at least), since I feel part of it is becoming people inputting their own standards onto others. Like how Inaba got mad at Yui for doing what she basically wanted to do too (but was forcing herself not to), and how Taichi's comments to Inaba sound like something he feels towards himself. Their outbursts are reflecting how they treat themselves.
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2012-08-22, 17:49 | Link #1527 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Extending a bit my previous post, I add that what they think during the outburst is important. But is more important the way they think. What's the logic, or non-logic, that feeds their chain of thoughts and the final outcome. On a similar trigger, Inaban seems to have a controlled flow. Taichi instead seems to have an explosive flow, i.e. it's impossible to estimate where he can go once triggered.
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2012-08-22, 17:53 | Link #1528 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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There is a huge difference with Himeko and Taichi.
Taichi more or less expect people to indefinitely help each other. Whereas it is the right thing to do for every occasions is up to debate. If you dig it deeper, Taichi has specific expectations for Himeko, since he basically alienated her image as the "club leader", so he expects her to take the best course of action for everyone, but he didn't take into account her feelings and insecurity, which first helped her to stick with the group (the whole "can't trust people" part), but completely backfired at him now. Himeko has put a very different input: she didn't order Yui to act like her, but brought the facts: if she "screws" around, it will endanger the group. Himeko admitted already that she had the same idea, but she actually did the opposite, since she realized that "her standard" would basically screw everyone. That point drove her in a corner, even moreso now that Taichi dropped the "you disappoint me" bomb on her, despite she really didn't think of being any good after unleashing against Yui.
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-08-22 at 18:07. |
2012-08-22, 18:04 | Link #1529 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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@Midonin: Ok. Let's call him the shallow knight, it's more fitting
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2012-08-22, 18:11 | Link #1530 |
likes cute things
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Searching for more imoutos
Age: 43
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I'm only now just noticing everyone here is only focusing on Taichi. We know he has a white knight syndrome (at least that's what we're assuming) that causes him to act the way he does. But why does Inaba have a trust issue?
Just like how we all want to know, "what is causing Taichi to act this way?" we should also be questioning, "why does Inaba have a trust issue?" Now there are signs that Inaba is trying to change her way of thinking but how deep does that change really go? Is it only to the point of being able to socialize with others but at the same time not trust them? Or is she trying to break down her wall she has up and believe people don't want to hurt her? If that is the case, then Taichi really screwed up with her progress. Inaba knows that he has an addiction to helping people, but it's possible she just learned due to Taichi's outburst that not even the white knight can help her with her troubles which could lead her to believe she is beyond help. I'm sure my analysis is pretty far out there though. |
2012-08-22, 18:22 | Link #1531 | ||||
Try me! <3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 40
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Apologising certainly *doesn't* insult anyone's intelligence. If anything, *not* apologising is showing a *lack* of intellingence, or at the very least, a lack of manners and being insensitive and rude. Quote:
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Perhaps he was a rather mean person a while back, before his change, and part of this mean personality was resurfacing now and unleashed, making him yell at Inaban crudely, and also keeping him from apologizing afterwards.
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2012-08-22, 18:23 | Link #1532 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
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The main differnece being Taichi has been portrayed rather one dimensional so far. The Good Guy vibe. Inaba on the other hand is a bit more complex. She's supposedly battling some internal trust issues on a daily basis, whilst putting up a brave face. So Taichi told Inaba to act like a good guy, while Inaba told Yui to put up a brave face in-spite of her problems. In that way I see both outbursts as similar, and so is more a cry of how they tell themselves to act rather than them actually being mad at their friends. Their feelings are true, but more towards themselves. But of course, I'm assuming things here. Inaba being the more complex person, realises her outburst was wrong (or at least, not helpful), and feels depressed that she too might not be able to put on a brave face anymore (the outbursts are taking away her controls). Taichi, being more shallow, doesn't give a damn about the things he said... (okay that may be a bit harsh on Taichi, though it fits in with how he said all those things to Iori about knowing her personality and then proceeding to be so easily fooled).
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2012-08-22, 18:24 | Link #1533 | |
<(゜∀。)
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Flying in the Air
Age: 36
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And she indeed does try to trust people. In episode 4 we already know that she wants to trust her friends and hates herself for doubting them. As I said way back, the only person she doesn't trust is herself as she doesn't want to accept this "despicable" side of her. Taichi in episode 4 managed to nudge her a little towards the right direction by convincing her that they will accept her, so she can try and accept herself. Finally, you're entirely right about this outburst incident that Taichi basically reset her progress back to point zero, or possibly worse, as it exposes once again everything Inaba hates about herself. The fact that she feels that she has betrayed/let her friends down doesn't help. Last edited by Lantern; 2012-08-22 at 18:44. |
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2012-08-22, 18:24 | Link #1534 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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In that sense, she serves as good foil for Taichi's dysfunctional character.
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2012-08-22, 18:37 | Link #1535 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
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As for those trust issues, it seems like the answer is set in such a wide range that it's pointless to assume. Does she trust her family? Does she trust the teachers at school (God knows I wouldn't where I went to school)? Does she trust the police? Does she trust no one at all? Nothing concrete has been given. Her issues are still a bit vague. Taichi on the other hand, is more straight forward. He's the white knight that wants to help everyone.
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2012-08-22, 18:47 | Link #1536 | |
<(゜∀。)
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Flying in the Air
Age: 36
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Now, putting all the bad words bad timing factors aside, the way Inaba does it, while assertive, she doesn't berate Yui like Taichi does to her. Meaning that, she doesn't set a standard. She's only telling Yui what she she thinks is right and point out that Yui's approach can turn out disastrous. I mean, if you're in a team, and your teammate is telling you to take some responsibility for whatever critical reason, can you really say that he's forcing an ideal on you? I guess you can argue that it is, but in a broader sense, I think it's pretty acceptable. While Taichi, he does it in a way that if Inaba doesn't follow his ideals, she's inferior to his standards. He's literally forcing his own standard down her throat with how the dialogue goes. Again, my opinion is entirely biased as I tend to favor the side with critical arguments (like the ones Inaba brought up). Just throwing this thought out there. |
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2012-08-22, 21:08 | Link #1538 | ||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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For example: you saw a man attacking a girl. Your emotion at that time might be a rage like this: “Wth is that a**hole doing! I’ll help that girl!” If you act based on that emotion, you’ll go straight up and attack the guy and maybe adding some really mean insult to him (like Taichi did with his outburst). But instead of that, you let your reason do quick work by analyzing the context of the scene: the girl is being attacked while being closely watched by many other women and they’re looking calm. Then, you approach them and ask “what is happening?” then one of the women says “Oh, it’s a self-defense training.” By filtering your emotion with reason, that’s how human mind works. Sure, there are some cases where people act directly on their emotion (like when people snapped), but Taichi’s outburst is not like that. By “accident” I meant HS’s gimmick interference. Not the emotional outburst itself. Quote:
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2012-08-22, 21:50 | Link #1539 | ||
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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I think you and I are talking about two different things. All I'm saying is that people have a habit of dissociating their emotions (at least the undesirable ones) from their perception of "self". I mean, I don't like it when people come and claim, "It wasn't me, it was my desire/emotion." In doing this, they are drawing a clear dichotomy between the rational self and the emotional self, which I believe is obstructive to achieving self acceptance. Whether it's a defense mechanism or something else, I don't know. Quote:
Contrary to what you might think, my assessment of Taichi's character is not solely from that single emotional scene. Please don't misrepresent me here. All I'm doing is a bit of speculation based on what we got. You can't deny that we can get all sorts of good hints regarding his inner psyche from that particular scene. Also, since this show seems to be using a vaguely Freudian framework anyway, emotions form the foundation of our expressed behavior. They are the end all and be all of everything we do. The ego is simply there to express these emotions within the bounds of society's norms.
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Last edited by Qilin; 2012-08-22 at 22:03. |
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2012-08-22, 22:35 | Link #1540 | ||||
Senior Member
Author
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It isn't bs at all. I was very clear in my point.
Taichi was there when Inaba was harsh with Yui, and Inaba apologized for it, resulting in Yui essentially saying "You may be saying your sorry, but you really meant what you're apologizing for". In other words, the apology did nothing for Yui, because both her and Inaba knew that Inaba meant what she said due to the whole gimmick that Heartseed has put into play this arc. Inaba would similarly be smart enough to know that an immediate apology from Taichi would be insincere - That, like it or not, he meant what he said. That's how this current gimmick employed by Heartseed works. And since Taichi was there during Inaba and Yui's exchange, Taichi knows that any immediate apology from him probably wouldn't be any more well-received than what Inaba's was. An apology that's perceived as insincere can actually worsen matters. I've seen it happen many times before. Quote:
Does Inaba ever apologize for the rude/insulting things she says to Taichi? And like I said before, Inaba doesn't even have the excuse of "unleashed Id" for many of her moments of being insulting. And furthermore, she says such things on a fairly regular basis. People probably excuse it, in their own minds, because they go "Oh, that's just what Ice Princesses are like". Ok, fine. If that's your approach, then much the same can be said about Taichi's moment in this episode - "Oh, that's just what White Knights are like." "White Knights" do tend to hold their closest friends/allies to high expectations/standards, just like how Ice Princesses often feel free to be blunt and rough with those that they spend a lot of time with. If you're going to go easy on one character because "That's just how her archetype works", then I don't see why we shouldn't also go easy on another character because "That's just how his archetype works". Edit: Quote:
I agree with what Inaba said to Yui, but that doesn't make it any less forceful. And there was a clear implication in Inaba's words to Yui that if Yui didn't go along with Inaba's (admittedly good) logic, that Yui would be failing to do her fair share. That Yui would be inferior to the rest going by Inaba's team-first standards. Quote:
So I don't think the premise of your rhetorical question here even works given the context. And since they're not really "a team", I think one could question Inaba's insistence on a team-based approach. I personally agree with Inaba's approach there, but it's not like these people are clearly tied together in a way that a sports team is. Quote:
Now, I definitely think a good case can be made that Taichi is taking this idea a bit farther than it should be, but the basic position is a generally accepted one and is fairly obvious here. Taichi doesn't need to actually put it into words.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-08-22 at 23:03. Reason: Adding reply to Lantern |
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body swapping, comedy, drama, romance, shounen, slice of life |
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