(L) Sword Art Online - Light Novel Discussion

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by kyp275

Incorrect, there was zero criminal liability on the player's part, regardless of whether they PK'd in SAO or not - all of that was placed at Kayaba's feet.

Even if they wanted to pursue criminal charges, it would be nearly impossible prove either the act or intent, not to mention the extreme likely scenario that no existing statute would even have jurisdiction over what happened in SAO.

I don't buy it. Killing someone in SAO is no different from hacking into a hospital's computer and changing a patient's prescription to something lethal -- something that could easily be prosecuted as murder. The government doesn't need a law making a specific kind of murder illegal -- as long as they can prove causality and intent, it qualifies under existing laws. And as long as both parties were in Japan, there'd be no issue of jurisdiction. Yeah, Kayaba created the situation where it happened, but he's only responsible for players killed by the system -- the LCs acted under their own volition.

Proving the act might be difficult, but I remember the government knew enough about what happened within Aincrad to identify Kirito as a major frontline player.

A better explanation might be that the government didn't want to prosecute those who took part in the crusade against the LCs and decided "What happens in Aincrad stays in Aincrad."

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by kyp275

In order for a crime to occur, there needs to be both actus reus and mens rea, "guilty act" and "guilty mind" so to speak. You would never be able to establish actus reus as no player actually carried out the actual killing act, which is done by NervGear and Kayaba's program. Since the killing of a video game avatar is not a criminal act in and of itself, you'd have a hard time arguing that it's a criminal act, especially when the players in game have no way of verifying that the act of killing an avatar actually kills the player. This leads to the mens rea, you'd never be able to prove that the PKers intended to cause actual harm to their victims, as again there is no way for them to know for sure that's what will happen, nor would you be able to prove that they intended so even if the players believed it.

Basically, it would be a case so shaky that no prosecutor would be crazy enough to attempt to prosecute, and if they do, even a first year law student would be able to shred their case to pieces with his/her eyes closed.



This is another key reason why SAO PK would never be charged, least of all as murder. Cyber-bullying can be prosecuted in some states(not all) because it's been legislated into actual laws, with clause establishing the parameters of the crime. I can assure you that there is no such thing as cyber-murder on the book anywhere, and you cannot be charged with a non-existent crime. This is why in some of the cyber-bullying cases the DA had to resort to charging the defendant with other completely unrelated statutes such as computer fraud laws to try to get them with something, as there were no cyber-bullying laws in their state.

Murder is Murder even if the means are different then normal. I am pretty sure the prosecutors in the US will prosecute LC and not as juvenile but Adults.

[haseo0408]

The volume 10 is the final volume or is there going to be an Alicization Ending? I just want to know if Kirito is going to live. I hope it does, the athor can´t do that to Asuna, that girl deserves the life she dream with him in SAo.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by haseo0408

The volume 10 is the final volume or is there going to be an Alicization Ending? I just want to know if Kirito is going to live. I hope it does, the athor can´t do that to Asuna, that girl deserves the life she dream with him in SAo.

No, volume 10 isn't the final volume. SAO will probably go on for another 3~5 volumes before reaching it's conclusion. I heard the whole matter surrounding Kirito's current predicament will dealt with in volume 10, though.

[novalysis]

I'd imagine that in most developed, and even emerging countries, there were huge pressures on legislators to tighten up cyber-crime (cyber-bullying,theft, murder and wrongful imprisonment ) laws, in response to the SAO Incident

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

I don't buy it. Killing someone in SAO is no different from hacking into a hospital's computer and changing a patient's prescription to something lethal -- something that could easily be prosecuted as murder.

It may seem that way to you since you as a reader knows what's going on with 100% certainty, but that is not the case for the players who were stuck in SAO - they did not know whether what Kayaba said was true, nor did they have any way of verifying that fact, nor was there any precedent that would have any one reasonably believe that such a premise is even possible. Imagine yourself playing BF3, and you were told that if you shoot player Bob237 he would die in RL. You ignore the message and proceed to RPG Bob237 into next week, and it turns out someone ended up killing the player behind Bob237 for real - are you now liable for murder?

Your analogy is also flawed - Hacking into a hospital's computer is a criminal act, and changing the prescription to lethal drugs is both an illegal act and shows intent - PKing in a video game is neither.

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

The government doesn't need a law making a specific kind of murder illegal -- as long as they can prove causality and intent, it qualifies under existing laws.

Not quite, causality is also a poor way to word it. Also, as I mentioned in the earlier post - you'll be unable to establish either the act or intent.

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Proving the act might be difficult, but I remember the government knew enough about what happened within Aincrad to identify Kirito as a major frontline player.

They were able to view player stats and whatnot, hard to say what other information they were privy to, and again, these are ultimately immaterial.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Murder is Murder even if the means are different then normal. I am pretty sure the prosecutors in the US will prosecute LC and not as juvenile but Adults.

All I can say is that you and Utsuro are failing to take into account the totality of the circumstances, and frankly doesn't knows much about how the criminal justice system(US) works in real life, everything I've said so far is basic knowledge for even first year CJ students :/

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by kyp275

All I can say is that neither you nor Utsuro knows much about how the criminal justice system(US) works in real life, everything I've said so far frankly would be basic knowledge for even first year CJ students :/

you are right, i don't know law beyond Law&Order but i do know politics and public pressure. if what happen with LC got out to the public there would be tremendous public pressure to prosecute the surviving members of LC. Prosecutor being politicians first will respond to the public pressure.

as for whether the proscution will win, Who knows.

[haseo0408]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

No, volume 10 isn't the final volume. SAO will probably go on for another 3~5 volumes before reaching it's conclusion. I heard the whole matter surrounding Kirito's current predicament will dealt with in volume 10, though.

Well, the author sid that this was going to be final acr, Kirito and Asuna´s final challenge so I think that it will be 1 more volume, more than that is just dragging for to long. I´ve seen an anime manga, anime, light novel where the protagoninst are such a perfect match for each other; I feel a little sorry for the others girls, they never stood a chance in front of that relationship.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I'd imagine that in most developed, and even emerging countries, there were huge pressures on legislators to tighten up cyber-crime (cyber-bullying,theft, murder and wrongful imprisonment ) laws, in response to the SAO Incident

No doubt they would take a closer look at those after the SAO incidents, but you don't get to retroactively apply laws.

Expecting any current statutes to apply to what happened between players in SAO however, is about as ludicrous as trying assert jurisdiction over a colony of humans living on alpha centauri that were kidnapped by aliens.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

you are right, i don't know law beyond Law&Order but i do know politics and public pressure. if what happen with LC got out to the public there would be tremendous public pressure to prosecute the surviving members of LC. Prosecutor being politicians first will respond to the public pressure.

as for whether the proscution will win, Who knows.

Prosecutors also have to work within the framework of the law, I doubt they'd be able to even get an indictment from a grand jury

[maelstormCaT]

Originally Posted by haseo0408

Well, the author sid that this was going to be final acr, Kirito and Asuna´s final challenge so I think that it will be 1 more volume, more than that is just dragging for to long. I´ve seen an anime manga, anime, light novel where the protagoninst are such a perfect match for each other; I feel a little sorry for the others girls, they never stood a chance in front of that relationship.

Nah, the author said there will be 4-5 novel for Alicization. This final arc is apparently pretty massive.

And about the relationship thing, the author is not that heartless, he even write a harem ending just for lol. check it on bakatsuki; 'There is one but ultimate way'

Spoiler for Spoiler:

But yeah... before Kirito get stuck in UW, he was asking Asuna to go to America with him. That's a big step for the two, and Asuna said yes

[Ray]

Originally Posted by haseo0408

Well, the author sid that this was going to be final acr, Kirito and Asuna´s final challenge so I think that it will be 1 more volume, more than that is just dragging for to long. I´ve seen an anime manga, anime, light novel where the protagoninst are such a perfect match for each other; I feel a little sorry for the others girls, they never stood a chance in front of that relationship.

Yes, this is the final arc; the web version of Alicization consists of 8 chapters, 2 interludes, and the epilogue. Volume 10 only supposedly covered up to and including chapter 4. Chapters 5-8, the 2 interludes, and epilogue will way too much material for 2 volumes to cover, as chapters 7 & 8 are much longer than the rest of the earlier chapters.

Dragging on for too long? Maybe. Of course, you also have to bring the facts that the web version went on for that long, and that and Kawahara plans on adding some extra bits here and there into consideration when you say that.

[kyp275]

^
you can't never have too much SAO

[Ray]

Originally Posted by kyp275

^
you can't never have too much SAO

Exactly. ;p And that's why Progressive is going to be awesome.

[maelstormCaT]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

Exactly. ;p And that's why Progressive is going to be awesome.

It better be. But the author is still busy with Allicization. So no rush there.

Spoiler for 10:

speaking of which. From the novel illustration I'm guessing UW is a AI training ground? If the goal of UW is to make more sentient AI like Yui, that setting seems right.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by maelstormCaT

Spoiler for Spoiler:

But yeah... before Kirito get stuck in UW, he was asking Asuna to go to America with him. That's a big step for the two, and Asuna said yes

*SPEW*

Oh man, I really need to catch up on the novels.... You mind being a bro and filling me in on what volume and chapter this was in?

Speaking of which, somebody said that Asuna got her mom to change her mind about Kirito through some good ol' POWER OF LOVE back a little ago....somebody mind pointing that volume and chapter to me too?

Originally Posted by Aphrah

Yes, this is the final arc; the web version of Alicization consists of 8 chapters, 2 interludes, and the epilogue. Volume 10 only supposedly covered up to and including chapter 4. Chapters 5-8, the 2 interludes, and epilogue will way too much material for 2 volumes to cover, as chapters 7 & 8 are much longer than the rest of the earlier chapters.

Wait, so this, the final arc of all of Sword Art Online, has already been completed in a web novel form? So there's a version of SAO's end out there already?

(keep calm......stay calm......*meditates*)

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Wait, so this, the final arc of all of Sword Art Online, has already been completed in its web novel form? So there's a version of SAO's end out there already?

(keep calm......stay calm.... *meditates*)

Yeah, but there's no translation or summary of it in English. The only way to find out what happens is to ask someone who's fluent in Japanese. Heh. ;p

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

Yeah, but there's no translation or summary of it in English. The only way to find out what happens is to ask someone who's fluent in Japanese. Heh. ;p

Or I could read it myself since I can understand (a good deal of) Japanese. So where do I find this?

(remain calm......deep breaths..... *continues to meditate*)

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Or I could read it myself since I can understand (a good deal of) Japanese. So where do I find this?

(remain calm......deep breaths..... *continues to meditate*)

No clue. I imagine it'll be easy enough to find if you search for it using the right terms, though.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Or I could read it myself since I can understand (a good deal of) Japanese. So where do I find this?

(remain calm......deep breaths..... *continues to meditate*)

It was originally posted on Kawahara's blog, but has long since been taken down after SAO got picked up to be published, so you're gonna have to dig somewhere to find it.

[maelstormCaT]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

*SPEW*

Oh man, I really need to catch up on the novels.... You mind being a bro and filling me in on what volume and chapter this was in?

Vol 9 interlude 1

Stuff happens on that part, which started the whole Aliczation arc. To avoid spoiler, here's the conversation.

Spoiler for Conv:

"America?"

"Yeah. I spent a year researching, and I think the «Brain Implant Chip» research at Santa Clara university is the real successor of the FullDive technology. The Brain Machine Interface is probably heading toward that direction. I really want to see it, where the next world is born."

Asuna looked straight into Kazuto's pupils before giving a deep nod.
"There were not only fun memories, but a lot of sad and painful memories too. Its purpose, that castle's destination, you want to know about those, right?"

"......I don't think even several hundreds of years would be enough time to understand it."

Kazuto made a little smile and became silent once again.

It's certainly difficult to speak about separation. was what Asuna guessed. Without erasing her smile, she tried to voice the answer that had always been kept warm inside of her chest —— however before she could do so, Kazuto made the exact same expression he did once in Aincrad - the same one from when he proposed to her for marriage - as he said while stuttering,

"That's why...... I-I want you to go with me, Asuna. I really don't want to live without you. I know I'm saying something unreasonable. I know that Asuna has a path Asuna wants to go. But, even so, I......"

At that point, he cut off his words as if he was confused. Asuna's eyes widened, and she let out a light laugh.
"Eh......?"

"S......Sorry that I laughed. But...... could it be, that was what made Kirito-kun troubled until now?"

"Y-Yeah."

"Whaaat. If it's about my answer, I had already decided upon it long ago."Her left hand grasped her right, which was still holding Kazuto's hand. After nodding deeply again, she told him,"Of course, I'll go... we'll go together. If it's with you, I can go anywhere."

Major Kirito Asuna moment. I'm normally not one for romance, but that right there is what I called romantic.