Canvas 2 ~Niji-iro no Sketch~

[Skane]

To rei,

While I do not wholly agree with your points, cookies for you for the effort you have invested into writing those posts of yours. Elaborate discussion is a rare thing and I like encouraging it.

Cheers.

[rei]

Thanks for your critics, guys. I know my post isn't constructive & unfair to those who I've quoted. But somehow their posts interest me & I thought, 'hmm...I wonder if this person or other people have thought of this or that'. Besides, not all of those posts that I've quoted were posted while the anime is still going on. Some of them were also posted after the anime ended.

I've no intention of making them sound dumb for their post. It's just that I don't know how to post my thought w/o referring to some posts. I don't like writing essays but I like Q&A . Though those quotes are not in the form of questions but quoting them make me feel like it's a Q&A things. Well, I'll try my best to get rid of my bad habit of quoting old posts.

Therefore, I humbly apologize to those who feel offended by my posts. And I also appreciate those who criticize my way of posting. It'll be helpful in making me a better forumer. And thanks for those cookies, guys. I reallly don't think I deserve much for my posts. I just want to get my opinions across.

Eventhough C2 is one of my favorite but I only give it a B. I would've give it a B+ if it ended with Kiri (heh, except for AIR which I rated A-, there's no other anime that I rated A). IMO, Kiri ending would be more satisfying. But I don't think that Elis ending is that bad either. I admit that I'm more towards Elis since the middle of the series (after Elis got more mature) & I will be sad if Elis didn't get pick up by Hiroki.

The ending, of course, really make me happy. But I don't know why I feel this pain for Kiri. I admit that Kiri didn't grew on me as much as Elis does. I mean, I really not sympathize with her that much. Yet, an ending like this is kinda *speechless* (sorry, don't know the exact word for my feeling). Somehow I thought, why can't it ended with ALL people feel happy. Then again, perhaps that's kinda lame & lack of reality because in real life, not all people will get a happy life unless it's a fairy tale. Having spoiled myself with the Kanon re-make ending, I'm looking forward to it. I wonder who would be my favourite character.

As mention by some people, Hiroki is COOL I know I'm exaggerating here but I'm also impressed with him for not thinking much of perverted things. I really LOVE the mature onii-chan-type of male lead. There's not much male leads that I'm interested in. My top favourite male-lead will always be Kamishiro Maiku from Onegai Twins. Most male leads are bums, boring & they make me turn away from the series. But Hiroki is a little different from others IMO. Surely he's quite dense when it came to love relationship but I really love the caring that he shows to others especially Elis. Eventhough he likes to complain most of the times but he did do his job (somehow I do wish him to be more stoic). What make me happier is that at the end of the show, he did pick one of the girls. Whether it's Elis or Kiri, I'm fine with either ending.

There are other shows that really disappoints me & make me say, 'what the heck am I watching this series for??'. I really don't like an open ending like Futakoi. That kind of ending really disappointed me. And also Green Green, I was like 'meh' with how it ended. I know I'm being bias here but I prefer a show with 'real' ending. Shuffle!'s ending isn't that very bad IMO. Somehow, I don't know why people like Vexx complaining about the 'reset' thing. Eventhough Rin picks 'you know who' but with those girls still hanging around Rin, there's still chances for them to 'steal' Rin. (the only thing that I complain about is the 'let me love Rin from afar thing. I don't care much about the 'don't want to use magic' stuff)

Another thing that amaze me is how the series make me interested to watch it. I've seen quite a number of anime of this type but hardly any of them hook me. Perhaps it's the interactions that attract me. It's quite refreshing (at least for me). But I have to moan about the interactions between Elis-Hiroki-Kiri though, as they are too weak compare to their interactions with secondary & minor characters. Kiri didn't get much development IMO, which is a pity. And as I mention earlier, there's not enough Hiroki-Elis interaction.

I like the balance of comedy & drama in C2. To me, KgNE is full of angst that it make me frustrated to watch it. I don't consider a show full of angst & frustration as a great show. Such heavy drama is not my type. I also don't like if it's too simple. When Vexx mention about Lamune, I gave it a try. Unfortunately, it's not my kind of anime either.

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

Okay, small Canvas 2 question so that this post isn't off-topic! ^_^

Okay, in episode with the school cultural festival (I cannot remember the # and I'm kinda too lazy to find the disc after I filed it away), they show two girls at the fair. One is a blonde-ish girl with a ribbon in her hair playing the goldfish game. The other is a short, brown-ish haired girl complaining that she wants something. This may seem like I'm reaching, but.... Who are these girls? Were they featured somewhere in the series that I don't remember or were they from Canvas 1? I ask that because they kinda focued in on the girls. Like they weren't just cookie cut-out extras; they seemed to have a specific feel to that. I was confused, and thought they may have made a cameo from previous appearances. Can anyone help me out here or am I just grabbing at nothing?

Hoo-ah!

I don't know if this guy already got the answer but I'm replying to it anyway.

One is a blonde-ish girl with a ribbon in her hair playing the goldfish game

Spoiler:

The other is a short, brown-ish haired girl complaining that she wants something.

Spoiler:

The blondish girl is Sakurazuka Ren & the short brownish girl is Nanashiro Yuzu. Yep. They're from Canvas 1 all right.

Spoiler for chibi-time! I love chibis:

Spoiler for Tomoko Ojou-sama. w00t~:

Spoiler for you know you want this ending to happen :p:

[DanielSong39]

Let me know if I'm on crack but I think Kiri may have had some repressed feelings towards Yanagi as well. Why else would she defend Yanagi after he admitted to stealing Hiroki's painting? And why would she continue to hang around Yanagi and keep giving him chances to steal her heart? One has to wonder...

Even Shie was starting to wonder whether Kiri would be better served accepting Yanagi instead, and Shie is one of those people who doesn't miss much...

[rei]

I'm not sure if Kiri does have an 'unconcious' / repressed feeling towards Yanagi but I think that she just don't want the friendship between them to fall apart. She likes Yanagi in some way but she's more fond towards Hiroki... I guess But somehow, I don't know why she called Yanagi, Shin-chan. AFAIK, you only give the title '-chan' to someone you're very fond with. I wonder how long have Kiri & Yanagi known each other. They seems quite close to me.

Speaking of Shin-chan...err... Yanagi, perhaps I'm one of those few people who don't have any grudge against him. I can see many people hate him so much. I know many people will be against my opinion but I think that maybe Yanagi is better for Kiri afterall. Compare to Hiroki who hardly think about her, Yanagi display much care for Kiri.

IMO, Yanagi isn't really that bad. Of course, what he did is really a disgrace but I feel that he still had some compassion for Hiroki & he did regret and blame himself for messing up Hiroki's life. He knew that Kiri was rejected by Hiroki, yet he didn't make an advance towards Kiri, not until he settle his issue with Hiroki.

Spoiler for mizugi :x:

[Vexx]

Response on the bonding issue to Rei:

Hmmm, have you ever been involved in or watched a long distance relationship? They are incredibly difficult to maintain. Yes, Elis would always be "his cousin", but the odds are very high that her new circle of friends would include compatible people, one of which she might become romantically inclined towards.

"Absence makes the heart grow fonder" ... but only to a point before the practical side of romance overrides it.

Even in non-romantic situations. When I lived near my relatives, we'd see or talk to them once a week or better. I now live several thousand miles away. Over the years our communications have dropped to once a year or less.
I used to spend months in isolated locations on projects with other people. The daily life especially under pressure naturally tend to push aside long distance matters. You need to talk to someone to decompress.... onichan isn't there but senpai is.

I think a tipping point for Hiroki was that he wouldn't have Elise around anymore for that vital smalltalk that lubricates a bond. She had spent most of the series wanting him to see her as more.... but when she decided to go to Paris there was a great deal of extra symbolism in that. "bird leaving the nest" "fresh start" and so on. It looks as if that was the nudge it took for Hiroki to awaken from his zombie walk.

[grey_moon]

New thoughts in regards to Kiri and Yanagi... I wonder how much of an issue Yanagi's youthful actions would act as a negative impact on any chance he has on getting it together with Kiri.

I mean this from Kiri's pov and what I can guess is her idea of the relationship she wants to form.

I think I can safely say that she is a hopeless romantic, she never gave up on Hiroki, even when she found out that he gave up on something that he was special at (in her eyes).

She doesn't seem to be at all phased by the deadly power fame and money... So it must be something else she looks for in a person.

Now that person is Hiroki... If I consider Yanagi's booboo, I think I can safely say that it was something Hiroki would never do, as he is just too darn self sacrificing.

Now Yanagi's action I would consider to be a very Bad Thing(TM) in terms of professionalism and in terms of friendship. It shows a high level of betrayal, and selfishness in 2 main areas of a persons life.

Now even through Kiri knows that Hiroki does not blame Yanagi, it does not make the fact that he did it go away. Would she feel safe to move their relationship from friends (who never kept in contact), to something far more intimate and that should be based on trust?

[DanielSong39]

I think all sides would be willing to bury the hatchet on one condition: if Hiroki was given credit for the painting.

It would prove once and for all that Yanagi was truly remorseful for the incident, and open the door for a full reconciliation.

Probably won't happen, but one can only hope.

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

I think all sides would be willing to bury the hatchet on one condition: if Hiroki was given credit for the painting.

It would prove once and for all that Yanagi was truly remorseful for the incident, and open the door for a full reconciliation.

Probably won't happen, but one can only hope.

it won't happen because Yanagi became a famous painter because of that one painting.. Or you could say it started him off. If the world were to know about it then it would ruin his whole career.. I'm sure Hiroki wouldn't want that.

[DanielSong39]

No problem; Yanagi can always pursue a career as an art teacher and always be by Kiri's side; surely she wouldn't reject a person who sacrificed so much for her...

OK, I'm officially going off the deep end, but the possibility is so deliciously irresistable...

[lillaziboi]

@.@ wow... so many posts... and this thread still active even tho the anime ended over a year ago o.o
i can't even read them all, only read like last page or so >.> <---------slow reader haha

anyways, i dun think there's any way kiri will end up with yanagi, no matter what i still think kiri will still have feelings towards hiroki, so she'll prolly b single for the rest of her life lol

just curious but will there be any ova or continuation of sum sort to canvas2?

and btw on http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...me.php?id=5976, the first 3 names they put r
Kaori Nazuka as Elise Housen

Masumi Asano as Ren Sakurazuka

Takahiro Sakurai as Hiroki Kamikura

...aren't those suppose to b the main characters? -.- ren barely showed up the entire show lmao, is this a mistake by ann or is there sum other meaning?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by lillaziboi

just curious but will there be any ova or continuation of sum sort to canvas2?

Probably not, but you never know... If they were going to announce something, though, it probably would have been at the end of last year when the last DVD came out in Japan. But, like I said, you never know for sure...

Originally Posted by lillaziboi

and btw on http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...me.php?id=5976, the first 3 names they put r
Kaori Nazuka as Elise Housen

Masumi Asano as Ren Sakurazuka

Takahiro Sakurai as Hiroki Kamikura

...aren't those suppose to b the main characters? -.- ren barely showed up the entire show lmao, is this a mistake by ann or is there sum other meaning?

Yeah, it doesn't really mean anything. They probably meant to put Kiri up there, but messed it up.

[DanielSong39]

Can't totally discount the possibility of Canvas 3... who knows?

You're probably looking at a new cast of characters in that case, however.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

Can't totally discount the possibility of Canvas 3... who knows?

You're probably looking at a new cast of character in that case, however.

Oh -- yeah, that's definitely a possibility. I guess I was thinking of a direct follow-up with the Canvas 2 cast, which I think is pretty unlikely at this point. But, yeah -- Canvas 3 with a new cast could very well happen. F&C did release a side-story game called Nadeshiko ~Aka no Rasen~ (some links within may be NSFW) set in the Canvas universe earlier this year. But if something's going to be animated, I imagine they'll wait for the numbered sequel, whenever they get around to it...

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Oh -- yeah, that's definitely a possibility. I guess I was thinking of a direct follow-up with the Canvas 2 cast, which I think is pretty unlikely at this point. But, yeah -- Canvas 3 with a new cast could very well happen. F&C did release a side-story game called Nadeshiko ~Aka no Rasen~ (some links within may be NSFW) set in the Canvas universe earlier this year. But if something's going to be animated, I imagine they'll wait for the numbered sequel, whenever they get around to it...

True, but since it's setted into the Canvas world the cast and crew will probably change, meaning characters too. It's just that once you watch an anime you associate them with it. And for me who just happen to finally, "finally" finish the Canvas 2 series after many many months of procrastinating.

After reading back post of 4-5 pages, I can finally understand the motif and understanding from this anime ^_^, though I did have a hard time figuring out all of the symbolism the first time around w/o reading all of the posts (not sure how ya did it ^_^).

ps: Ughh it's late now, stayed up all night trying to finish this anime. I'll finish this afternoon.(updated now)

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

Grrrr.... Symbolism..... I'm a meat n' potatoes guy. I try not to read too deeply into stuff and many times (this was a fabulous way to start arguments in college Literature classes) I try to say "It is what it is; it doesn't necessarily mean something 'symbolic.'"' Oh, the memories of English 30: Apocalyptic Rhetoric. lol

Hahaha, so agreeable. I have to come here for most of my deep dwelling thoughts too. But of course I'm looking for links b/t the characters and I can at least see some of the connections (I have skyfall for that)

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Ah, my 1 year anniversary from my first post at Animesuki from this thread. It's great that this thread is still going on.

JagdPanther, I hope that through your discussion with Skyfall, Canvas has been that much more enjoyable for you. If you have the time to read through the 1100+ posts to this wonderful anime, you'll probably notice some other points and perspective.

I started posting to this forum just because I felt the urge to enter in this discussion above all others threads before it.

Here is the link to my first post, which hopefully would add a little addition insight for you in this already wonderful thread:

first post 1 year before today

As for cousin marriages... Well, that's the way it is around the world, and much more tolerant in the asian culture, where nobles and imperial families have had a long history of cousin marriages. Only in "conservative" America do we have such a phoebia to such thoughts.

I'm not gonna read thru that many and just skipped every 5 pages and pretty much all you want if you're looking for answers after the anime is the last 5-6 pages.

Originally Posted by skyfall

Both Hagino and Tomoko deserve their spin-off series imo >.< they have good potential as characters

And i want an OVA covering this event

The French marriage?

Originally Posted by rei

*posting w/o reading the recent posts*

Spoiler for some of my bs posts :p. Read it only if you have insomnia. :p:

After holding back for so long, I’ve finally decided to post my analysis, thoughts & opinions. Since I don’t know where to start from, I went back to the ‘past’ to debate with some of the posts. Pardon me if there are lots of mistakes in grammars / words (English is not my language ) Some of my points may be repetitive but it can’t be help since I write the points at different times (too lazy to check anymore ) Sorry to brought up old posts







It only doesn’t make sense to those who don’t understand it. Some of you said that Elis was chosen because she’s the main character / heroine. I disagree with that point. IMO, Kiri is also a main character in the series and she’s the main heroine in Kiri-Hiroki-Elis triangular love and most likely to be chosen while Elis is the underdog in that relationship. The reason why they focused more on Elis is because she’s got more issues to overcome than Kiri.



That’s because you don’t understand the motive behind the paintings.



I disagree with this statement because Hiroki DOES have feeling for Elis (but he’s holding it back just like Elis did) and he DOES NOT know that she still had feeling for him (he’s very dense when it comes to understanding Elis’ feelings & thoughts). And since he ended up with Elis, it has proved that he already see her more than just a sister.



Perhaps it would be ‘disrespect’ of me to say that ‘some’ viwers are just not at the writers’ level to understand the whole thing or ‘some’ viewers are just lack of comprehension skills. So I’ll just say that ‘some’ viewers are not in the same wavelength as the writers to see the whole situation.

I think the writers know what they’re doing. But the thing is, does everyone understand what they’re trying to show here? Like Elis’ crimson ‘angels’ painting and Hiroki’s painting, which is a reflective of Elis’ painting? Kiri’s anxiety and unhappy expression even though her relationship with Hiroki ‘seems’ to go the way she wanted it to? I can tell by reading some posts that some people don’t have a clue of what’s going on. Even for a simple question like ‘why did Hiroki stop painting?’, some people still don’t know the reason.

Canvas 2 is not just a simple romance anime as most people thought it is. Most viewers take the story simple-mindedly (“the situation is as it is”) but actually, it requires deep understanding and more observations. Anyone who refused to look deep enough into it will surely end up getting confused.

Some people said that the ending is incongruous, doesn’t make sense & doesn’t fit with the rest of the show. But for me, the story that started with guy x girl ‘A’ & ended with guy x girl ‘B’ (IOW, switch ending / interest) is not something new. It’s just a rare stuff. This thing usually happens in Japanese romance novel.

One of the novel that I’ve read, there is a love triangle story where the love relationship between the guy & girl ‘A’ (who is the guy’s love interest) is being built up while girl ‘B’ is mostly being focused individually. The romance between the guy & girl B was never more than just one-sided & she even got rejected by the guy earlier because he loves girl ‘A’ & said that his feeling will never change.

But in the end, the guy chooses girl ‘B’. NO specific / textual reason is given, NO real relationship development is shown, NO romantic scenes between the guy & girl ‘B’ & most important of all, NO romantic interest that can be felt from the guy towards girl ‘B’. Still IMO, it’s a good story though. (I never expected Canvas 2 to follow the same process)











You all don’t understand. Hiroki’s painting is NOT a farewell gift for Elis & he’s NOT returning her a favour by painting something so that she would be happy. He’s replying to her feeling. In other words, he’s confessing his ‘real’ feeling to her via his painting.

Some of you said that Hiroki is touched by Elis overcoming her trauma by using red in her painting. No, that’s not it. Elis had already overcame her red phobia in ep. 18. So Elis’ red is not the subject of his attention. It’s Elis’ true feeling that he saw in the painting.

When I watched ep 24 for the 1st time, it was obvious to me that Hiroki is going for Elis and left Kiri . So that last scene at the ending of the credit didn’t surprise me at all. The only thing that surprise me is that they keep playing the love triangle relationship up until the last episode & make Hiroki to go to Elis this late in the series.

Somehow I think that some people didn’t understand what is going on. That’s why they go WT* over that last scene. Since Hiroki and Elis are finally ‘opening up’ their feelings to each other, it’s natural for them to go on to the next stage of their relationship.







Of course he had to push her away. How else can he had a proper conversation with her in that position? He needs to talk with her face to face. (well, they didn’t had much of a conversation anyway since they now understand each other ) Besides, Elis doesn’t have the same look that she had in ep. 10 when Hiroki pushed her away. She wasn’t disappointed at all. And Hiroki didn’t push her away when she hugs him for the 2nd time.

As for Hiroki being surprise, well, Elis is really over-reacting by rushing up suddenly to him like that. And as for Elis to be overjoyed, it’s not really because she was pleased to see him or because he was starting to paint again. It’s because Elis understood what Hiroki was telling her through his painting. No need for words. Let the painting do all the talking. Afterall, a painting depicts an artist’s heart better than anything.



Hiroki’s painting may not be that spectacular. It may not be the subject of his romance interest i.e. portrait of Elis, as some people expected. And it may be just a reflective of Elis’ painting. But it still reveals his true feeling for her, the same way as it is with Elis’ painting.

I don’t know why they call it ‘angels’, but from my personal observation, they look more like a group of bowless / arrowless ’cupids’, based on their design. Cupid is the god of love, depicts as a boy with wings and curly hair and shoots arrow to make people fall in love. As since cupid is the symbol of love, Elis’ crimson angels’ painting reveals her true feeling for Hiroki, which Hiroki couldn’t see earlier. And it was made confirmed with Elis’ last confession on the phone.

Well, perhaps some people will disagree with my analysis and say that it’s only a coincidence, but I still say that the painting has deeper meaning to it in which only Hiroki would understand. Notice that when they showed the painting, they focused on one of the ‘angels’. It’s a painting filled with warm love feeling.

Spoiler for similarity of Elis' & Hiroki's angels with the GOD of love, Cupid:

And that is the time is where everything is so clear to Hiroki. He finally ‘see’ that Elis does love him. That’s why he was so concerned that he gave her a call. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be that shock when he saw her painting (if he didn’t understand the meaning) & went on with his date with Kiri as planned.



It DOES NOT have to be a portrait. A composition isn’t all there is to a drawing. It’s the feeling that counts. Oh, and let me point out that when Elis is making a portrait of Hiroki in ep 17, she doesn’t paint him as a love interest/subject.



Ep 17 – 8min 35sec : Before Elis started painting, she was staring at a photograph of her with Hiroki. Then she put it on the table, facing it down. And she began to think of Hiroki and then started to paint. This showed pretty much that Elis is trying to put away her feeling for Hiroki and she tried to think of him as a brother/parent figure.



Ep 17 – 20min 57sec : When Elis showed Hiroki the portrait that she painted, Hiroki was staring at it and seemed puzzled. This indicates that he was wondering about Elis’ feeling because he can’t sense any romantic feeling in that painting despite that she confessed her feeling to him earlier. Thus he was clueless to what she was thinking & he couldn’t understand her feeling.



You are taking things very lightly here. Hiroki’s problem is more psychological than you think. It’s easy for you to say “Pick up a brush, copy the painting, problem solved and you’re back on track”. You should try to look deep enough into Hiroki’s problem

There are 3 things that obstruct him from painting. Firstly, his problem from the past where he wasn’t able to produce any good composition for his painting. Secondly, his fear for the future where he wasn’t sure what would become of him if he can’t draw. If you looked back in ep 1 (11min 32sec), he told Elis that it’s not that easy to make money with drawing. This shows that he had no confidence in his future life as an artist, thus he was afraid of taking a step forward and couldn’t draw. And since he couldn’t draw, he gave up and ‘run away’. And the last thing is his real feeling. At 1st, he didn’t know his own feeling. Although he managed to discover it afterwards, he still couldn’t be honest with himself.

Elis’ problem is pretty much the same as Hiroki’s. Her fear of the past which is the accident that happened 10 years before had prevent her from using red. She managed to overcome it in ep 18 (ketchup sauce omelet rice episode) but still, she had to deal with her future, a life without Hiroki by her side. This is hard for me to explain since I’m not good with words, but here I go: If Elis could use red (in her painting), that means she can take another step forward and move on. But moving on with her life means that she had to leave Hiroki and she was afraid of that. That’s why she can’t move forward, thus still couldn’t use red in her painting. You can see her struggling with this problem in ep 22. And lastly, the same thing which is being honest with her feeling.

Somehow, being honest with one’s feeling means that he / she had to face the reality. Hiroki felt that it was no use for him to be honest with his feeling because Elis said that she had no more feeling for him. He was afraid to express his feeling towards Elis because he doesn’t know how she will respond to him, not after he rejected her in the past. That’s why he couldn’t paint and choose to stay with Kiri as a teacher.

As for Elis, she knew that she had to move on with her life because she thought that Hiroki was only happy being with Kiri. Yet she still keeps clinging to her feeling for Hiroki and couldn’t leave him. After having some serious conversation with Takeuchi about studying in France in ep 23, Elis decided to go. With being able to move forward and left Hiroki + finally being honest with her feeling, Elis finally manage to use red in her painting.

Hiroki see Elis’ heart in her painting and it’s definitely his last chance. Although he hesitates about it at 1st, he finally picks up the brush and paint out his true feeling. Not only that he was able to be honest with his feeling towards Elis, he managed to be honest with Kiri as well. With that, Hiroki was finally able to move forward towards the artist life that he always dreamed of.



Saying that he gave up on painting because of Kiri = saying that it’s Kiri’s fault that he gave up painting. Hiroki gave up painting is NOT because of Kiri or Yanagi. The reason is because he can’t come up with anything to draw. In other words, he was suffering an artist’s block and was in a slump, just like Hagino was during ep 16 (it’s writer’s block in Hagino’s case)

Hiroki’s artist’s block had started even before Yanagi stole his composition. You can see that at 1st, he wasn’t able to draw anything for the National Rookie Art Exposition, probably due to the pressure of trying to paint something good. After Yanagi stole his composition, Hiroki became unhinge by his obsession of trying to prove that he’s better than Yanagi. But he couldn’t come up with a better composition and thus failed to win the next National Rookie Art Exposition.



Please try to understand the conversation there. Hiroki was telling Kiri to stop acting suspicious, not to stop being suspicious of him. Because Kiri is being suspicious ever since her conversation with Elis in ep 21, which caused Elis’ feeling to stir up and got involved in an accident later on. Is it really because she was considerate about Elis or is there something else that she wanted to hide, like the true situation of her relationship with Hiroki?

Saying that Hiroki was telling Kiri to stop being suspicious of him doesn’t make any sense & doesn’t fit the whole thing. If the situation is where Hiroki wanted to spend some time with Elis because she just got out of the hospital & Kiri voiced her concerns about it, then that translation would fit the scene. But in the scene, it was Kiri who told Hiroki to spend some time with Elis.







Just because Hiroki embraced Kiri in the hospital hallway in Ep 22, it doesn’t mean that he accepts her. That scene is totally unromantic which trying to look romantic (based on how it is animated). The reason why he embraced her is because Kiri was in distress. In other words, he only embraced her to comfort her. It’s more like a friendly embrace than an embrace of affection. And you can see Hiroki’s sad expression. When your best friend is sad and crying, you’ll also feel sad & you might want to comfort him/her by embracing.

OTOH, Elis who arrived at the scene & happened to see their action, misunderstood the whole thing & thought that Hiroki really did accept Kiri’s confession (in which I doubt that he did). Somehow, I LOL when some people said that Hiroki was going to kiss Kiri at that moment Also, I find this scene funny. Kiri felt guilty and blaming herself for Elis’ accident. Obviously Elis is the victim of her inconsiderate acts and was ‘emotionally wounded’. But she was apologizing to Hiroki. Talk about apologizing to the wrong person.



You’ve yet to meet such people. They do exist.



Speak for yourself, Vexx. Hiroki isn’t the “Oh wow! Girls! Cute! ” type of person like most male characters. I’ve acquainted with such people. This kind of people may be strange to others but they’re actually ‘normal’. Usually, this type of people put their career as their top priority in life. Love is just their 2nd or 3rd thing.





As far as I was following each episode, there is no ‘Elis wanders around with a towel’ scene in front of Hiroki. So there’s no way you can tell that he won’t react. If you’re talking about Hiroki feeling uneasy, I can point at the beginning of ep. 6 where Elis is showing her bikini to him.



Somehow, I feel strange for this type of show not to have at least one ‘ecchi’ moment (I won’t count Hagino tripped and revealed her panty to Hiroki as ecchi). Although I love Canvas 2 for its lack of pervert stuffs, I really can’t help wondering how Hiroki would react if he saw Elis’ underwear since he was the one who does the laundry. But we never get that scene anywhere in the series. Perhaps it got cut-off from the TV version or maybe there’s an episode or two that’s never shown due to its ‘not safe’ contents. But I doubt it though.

Oh well, I just feel relieved that none of the girls is the flirtatious type who like to exposed / rubbed her body ‘parts’ against Hiroki to gain his attention. Elis showing her bikini to Hiroki is not a manipulative act. She only wanted Hiroki’s opinion because she had troubled choosing her swimsuit. She had no mean of ‘seducing’ Hiroki. (But finally, she choose to wear that bikini despite Hiroki’s objection )



Just because Hiroki told Elis to put some more clothes on, it doesn’t mean that it’s a paternal concern / reaction. It’s just his expression of discomfort towards indecency. I’ve seen some other male characters in other anime who gave the same respond even if the girl is unrelated to him.









The thing is that Elis is too close to Hiroki & he was used to her. That’s why his feeling for her remains unconscious & it takes time for that feeling to come up. As some people had pointed it out, sometimes you don’t know how much you love someone until he/she is gone. But in Canvas 2 case, Elis hasn’t left yet & Hiroki had already knew his feeling for her before she left. But it’s because they’re oblivious to each other’s feeling & misinterpretation that force them to hide their feeling & prevent them from advancing towards each other. The things that finally ‘connect’ them are the paintings that they drew for each other.

If you still want to argue about it, I can point at Midori no Hibi. Did Seiji ever showed a slightest romantic interest in Midori? Did he treat Midori as a lover? All I can see is that he treated her like a friend / companion but I never sense that he had romantic feeling for Midori at all. He cares for her but the love feeling is just not there and he ignored her affection towards him. But then, it ended with them being together. This shows that some male character didn’t know his true feeling until late in the series. There are some other animes out there where the male lead hardly shown any romantic interest in the ‘girl’ who he will end up with.

All in all, the problem with Canvas 2 is not the absence of romantic feeling from Hiroki towards Elis. Rather, it’s the focused / close-up interaction between Elis and Hiroki. Because according to Kiri, Hiroki is still the same whether he draws or not. But Elis said that Hiroki had become a different person. If only we can see more of Elis-Hiroki interaction, it would be helpful.





I’ve rewatched this series so many times now. Hiroki DID NOT show that MUCH interest in Kiri and his romantic actions towards Kiri are not really strong enough to be count as love. To me, it’s more like a temporary infatuation due to the feeling that Hiroki wasn’t able to convey in the past. And I don’t see Hiroki talk much about Kiri. Heck, he didn’t even think / care much about Kiri as much as he think / care about Elis. And there’s a proof for that.

Remember ep 10 when Hiroki cancelled his picnic because of Elis. Kiri mailed to him, saying that it’s a pity that he couldn’t come because his favourite corns were well received. And this is what he replied to Kiri:

“It’s a real pity that I couldn’t eat your bentou. I’ll make it up to you next time”

You can see Kiri frowned about it because Hiroki only cares about the food, not her. Afterall, why else do you think that Hiroki agree to go fishing with her in the 1st place? It’s because Kiri is offering him food.

Compare that with his concern for Elis. He spends the whole day thinking and wondering about her. Some people said that Hiroki’s concern for Elis is just brotherly worry feeling. But that is debatable and it seems to me that people are just feeling that way because of Hiroki-Elis family relationship. Besides, Hiroki is yet to recognize his true feeling for Elis. So, of course the ‘love’ feeling can’t be detected at that point of time.

IMO, Hiroki shouldn’t worry too much about Elis. It’s not like Elis went missing without notice or in a situation to be worried so much about. She was just going to their grandmother’s place. Elis even told Hiroki not to worry about her in her letter, but he was still concerned about her. Elis purposely left her cellphone behind because she wanted some time for herself and she didn’t want to think about Hiroki for a while. So IMO, she’s not trying to manipulate Hiroki into going after her.

Hiroki finally decided to go to his grandmother’s place in Hokkaido. He said that he came for some corns. But when his grandmother bring in the corns, Hiroki started to look for Elis. This proved that he was mainly there for Elis, not the corns. So that means Hiroki cares for Elis > food > Kiri.









Geez. Is physical attraction the only thing most people had in mind? By saying physical attraction, it means attracted to the physical appearance of the person. While it’s true that most people (especially guys/men ) are only attracted to what seemed ‘nice’ on the outside, some people are much more interested to what is invisible to the eyes. Not all people have the same taste. It’ll be DAMN thing if all people prioritize physical appearances all the time.

As mention by some people earlier, Hiroki is sexless. That means he’s not the kind of person who’s easily attracted to female with nice & beautiful / cute / hot appearances. I think that he’s the type of guy who values a woman based on her characteristics and personality. So the thing that makes Hiroki attracted towards Elis is not her appearance, rather it’s her strong personality and maturity.

Back to this physical attraction, I may not be a person in literature class who can spot the deeper meaning and figure the ending out and do the symbolism faster than most people , but I DO spot that Hiroki had a little attraction in Elis as early as in Ep 1 (3min 43sec)

Elis: Oniichan
Hiroki: What?
Elis: How do I look?
Hiroki: N-Not bad…

When Elis asked Hiroki about her appearance, he paused & DID BLUSHED for a moment (not the ‘cheeks go red’ type of blush) & made a comment while facing the other way. When someone act in such way (stuttering & facing the other way), that means that he was feeling shy about something. Elis was fully dressed in her uniform & didn’t reveal her chest. What was Hiroki blushing for? It seems to me that he was fascinated by Elis’ appearance for a moment.

The thing is that Hiroki always see her as a kid & she was ‘difficult to handle’ (tsundere type). Not to mention she was being rebellious and stubborn. This prevents him from seeing her as a woman & her childishness turns him off. From how I see it, the childish Elis is just not Hiroki’s type.

Ep 3- 2min 28sec
Elis: Ah! They’re giving out balloons!
Hiroki: Elis?…Geez, that’s why I don’t like kids.

Based on this quote, you can see why Hiroki isn’t interested in Elis in the beginning.

And just to show that Hiroki is attracted to Elis when she’s being matured, I can point to ep 12- 18min 45sec. At that time, Elis looked so adult when she treated Haruna like a little sister / daughter (up until then Hiroki never saw the mature side of Elis). Here you can see that Hiroki is gazing at Elis. When Elis noticed it and asked Hiroki if he wanted to drink milk too, he was startled and BLUSHED for a while (again not the ‘cheeks go red’ type of blush) and then he tried to play it off by saying that his stomach is growling.

Perhaps that you had the idea that Hiroki is just thinking, “Elis looks like a mother / big sister”. If he does only had that kind of thought, then he would had just smile and respond, “No, it’s nothing” when Elis asked him. But in that scene, Hiroki’s reaction is different and doesn’t comply with “Elis looks like a mother” kind of thought. Obviously he was evading from giving definite reply.









I disagree. Just because Hiroki treated Elis as if he was a caring father, it doesn’t mean that he has no feeling for her. Sometimes, the way someone treats another doesn’t always reflect to the true feeling that he/she had. It’s just the same as when one person treats someone as if he doesn’t like her when in fact that he has feeling for her. Obviously some people are just letting Hiroki-Elis family relationship to dominate their minds. So it depends on the viewers’ mentality and mind interpretation of how they see Hiroki-Elis relationship.

Basically, people only see Hiroki-Elis relationship from Elis’ or 3rd person’s view, not from Hiroki’s side. With Elis not expressing her feeling towards him (after she was being rejected), how does Hiroki suppose to treat Elis more than just a sister? Unlike Kiri who always keep her ‘door’ open for Hiroki, Elis kept hers shut. So there’s no way that Hiroki can go in.

Hiroki is the cautious type when it comes to love affair. He didn’t just suddenly rush or jump in and say, “I want to make you my girlfriend / lover”. For him to react more than just a brother / father to Elis, he needed to confirm her feeling towards him 1st. Kiri always show that she WANTS Hiroki even after being rejected. But Elis didn’t show any of that sign to Hiroki and he doesn’t know her feeling.

If you look at Elis, if you manage to ignore her inner thought and story behind Hiroki’s back, the way Elis behave towards Hiroki is no different from Hiroki’s action towards her. Both of them are not opening their feeling towards each other and act normally. Elis’ feeling was easy to spot because she had a crush on Hiroki from long ago but Hiroki is in the process of seeing Elis differently & realizing his feeling for her.



It’s true that Hiroki isn’t sexually attracted to Elis. But somehow, I disagree with anyone who says that sexual relationship can only be achieved when there’s physical & sexual attraction / the feeling ‘hot’ for someone. In fact, I don’t think that’s right at all. Sexual relationship does not have to start with physical / sexual attraction IMO. The feeling of love itself is strong enough to lead people towards sexual relationship (man-woman kind of love that is. And I don’t mean friend-friend, brother-sister etc kind of ‘platonic’ love)

And just because Elis and Hiroki are naked under that blanket, it doesn’t mean that they had engage into sexual activity. They could be just having romantic moment together and feeling each other’s warmth and nothing more than that. I think that some viewers had too much imagination. Even IF Hiroki had sex with Elis, it’s because of love NOT lust. But still, I don’t believe that they did it. I’ve seen characters naked in bed before but they hardly had sex (Saikano is one example)



Heh. Some people always regard Hiroki’s devotion towards Elis as normal brotherly feeling just because of Hiroki’s brotherly nature and because of his family relationship with Elis’. Every Hiroki-Elis things are always being disparaged as sibling stuffs while Hiroki-Kiri moments are being exaggerated as romantic things. It’s really hard to see Hiroki’s feeling for Elis since they’re so close from the beginning.

Now what IF Hiroki and Elis have no family relationship? What IF Hiroki’s age the same or only few years older than Elis’? What IF Hiroki’s maturity level is about the same as Elis’? I’m sure things can be look in a different way.



The problem is that most of you always brush off Hiroki’s deep feeling / caring for Elis as a paternal / brotherly affection. You hardly believe that Hiroki had more than just a platonic feeling for Elis because you always like to compare his reaction towards Kiri with his reaction towards Elis. You always try to judge their relationship based on romantic moments.

So the reason why most people failed to see Hiroki’s true feeling for Elis is because they are being blinded by Hiroki-Kiri romantic stuffs & keep regarding Hiroki’s feeling towards Elis as sibling platonic. As I mentioned before, it’s all depending on the viewers’ mentality.

Take Onegai Twins as an example. Maiku always display ‘onii-chan’ attitude towards Miina & Karen. He cares for them a lot like sisters & never treats them more than that. But that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have more than just a sibling platonic feeling towards them. Even when he kissed ‘you-know-who’ at the station in ep 12, you can still feel that it lacks of romantic feeling from Maiku. The feeling ‘hot’ for someone is just not there.



Surely there’s no romantic thoughts, glances or embarrassment from Hiroki. But aren’t the scenes where he reminisces about Elis & his moments with her in bed at the hospital) in ep 22- 12min 35sec and ep 23- 8min 56sec showed us what’s the inside of his heart? In fact, they’re much better and more realistic than his fantasy of living with Kiri, which is nothing more than just his ideal way of happy life. (hey, it doesn’t have to be Kiri. It can be Saya or other girls too in Hiroki’s fantasy)

For me, it’s enough that they showed us that Hiroki is looking more at Elis and thinking about her more than Kiri. If you looked back earlier in the series, Elis didn’t get his attention and Hiroki wasn’t looking much at her. But after the confession in ep 10, even though he rejected her, things began to change slowly (not much but it did). Although not romantically, you can see that Hiroki’s eyes are looking at Elis, especially from a distance.



Quoted for the truth. And now, I will quote Hagino’s novel

At 1st, I couldn’t realize my own feelings. But I could only think about you after a while. I’ve always, always loved you

Besides getting over the trauma of the past and a resolution to Kiri-Hiroki relationship, Canvas 2 is also about a ‘journey’ of Hiroki realizing his true feeling towards Elis, just like what’s written in Hagino’s novel. But from what I can see, most people only take the show as the story of romantic relationship development between Hiroki and Kiri, which is why they felt the ending doesn’t fit.









Oh, come on Do you REALLLY need to know and hear textual reason from Hiroki himself for his change of view about Elis? Is it really that necessary? They didn’t explain why Hiroki didn’t tell Elis about his meeting with Kiri at the restaurant in ep 9. If there’s no reason, why would he try to hide it from Elis? They didn’t state any reason for Hiroki to lie to Kiri about him not feeling well that he had to cancel their picnic in ep 10 and went after Elis in Hokkaido. There’s no need for him to lie to Kiri in the 1st place anyway. These things were totally ignored by everyone, yet people are making a big deal out of Hiroki ‘sudden’ interest in Elis.

So Hiroki did reject Elis and he did say that she’s his important little sister. But the thing is this scene happened waaay back in ep 10 and time has passed since then. I always believe that people’s feelings do change over time. Have you ever experience of not interested in an anime character and after some time, you started to like him/her after you see his/her good points? This is what exactly happened here in Canvas 2.

Hiroki may not display romantic interest in Elis but she did attract his attention by trying very hard to improve herself. It seems to me that Hiroki had a soft spot for hard-working girl. Even Saya or Hagino had more chance to win his affection rather than Kiri. But Saya isn’t very close to him and Hagino is still childish.

The thing is that in Canvas 2, you have to try to see what isn’t shown (like Hiroki’s respond to Kiri’s confession) and hear what isn’t said (like Hiroki’s change of view about Elis). To do that, you have to take notice some of the small things that were provided and think about it.



This isn’t Lamune, npal. Hiroki rejected Elis is not because of Kiri. I never had that feeling at all. Rather than relying on textual reason, you had to use your common sense, put yourself in Hiroki’s shoe and try to understand why he rejected Elis.

Elis lost both of her parents at a young age. So she definitely needs some care and protection from someone who she trusts the most (not that she didn’t have trust on her other relatives, mind you). Beside her grandmother, Hiroki is the other person closest to her and she happened to attend in the same school that he goes to.

When Elis came and stayed with him, Hiroki felt that it’s his job and responsibility to look after Elis. That’s why he was referring himself as her (unofficial, acting) guardian. [sarcasm]As a guardian / bodyguard / knight, he must protect the ‘princess’ and can’t fall in love with her. – that’s his ethics that he used to believe (in ep 12, he said that he always had to play the role of the princess’ bodyguard[/sarcasm].

When Elis confessed her feeling to Hiroki in ep 9/10, Hiroki felt that it was against his ethics as a guardian to accept Elis’ feeling. That’s why he rejected her, giving the reason that she is his important little sister. Not only that, if you look at Elis in the early part of the series, she was definitely too childish and too sisterly for his taste anyway. And she was being too dependent on him. Simply to say here that Elis was just not good enough for him.

The thing is that Hiroki had very strong protective instinct & sense of responsibility. If that instinct is stronger than his feeling, of course he rejected Elis. It’s like if you’re a teacher and living with a student and that student suddenly confess to you, you can feel that it’s not right for you as his/her teacher to accept him/her, unless you had strong feeling for him/her from the beginning. You are given trust to teach, not to love (as in man-woman love).

It’s the same thing here in Canvas 2. Hiroki is to protect Elis, not to engage in a romantic relationship with her. For him, to protect and to love Elis (as a woman) is something that is not possible. Sounds silly but some people had this kind of idea. But that still can change over time though, once that person started to grow on you.



I agree with thundrakkon statement there because I also had the same feeling. The thing is that Hiroki never expected that Elis is seriously in love with him. I think that Hiroki never even thought about falling in love with Elis because he only believed that he always had to take care of her. Afterall, she’s only a kid in his eyes at that time. But her confession was too sudden and he didn’t know how to take it. He rejected her and said that she was his important little sister. Yet, you can see that he was in confusion later on (after Elis ran into her room).

The next day, he told himself that his only solution for Elis is to treat her as he’s always been all along. He seemed to look normal and act as if nothing happened but the truth is, he was bothered by Elis’ confession. Whenever there was something on his mind, he always become absent-minded. When Kiri was asking him if anything had happened, he recalled about Elis’ confession in his mind.

It seems that Elis’ confession and Hiroki’s rejection had an effect on both of them. Ever since then, Elis had become less childish and Hiroki is thinking more of Elis than Kiri. Seeing that Elis had changed and impressed him sometimes, Hiroki started to see her differently and somehow began to re-evaluate the ‘little sister’ status of Elis’ relationship with him. He may not fell for her immediately but his feeling for her is definitely building up slowly inside of him and he’s yet to notice it.

Very nice there Rei. I don't have insomniac but I found your opinion to be one of the better so far, but you do span the most in deep invoking feelings along with necessary ultra specific details to explain your totally negative remarks on others users, which I admire, but sometimes it sometime feel that you give a superior vibe to others. I'm not sure if you have distinct innate skill for catching onto deeper details than others or your sources are better, but this discussion/debate

Originally Posted by Skane

To rei,

While I do not wholly agree with your points, cookies for you for the effort you have invested into writing those posts of yours. Elaborate discussion is a rare thing and I like encouraging it.

Cheers.

That's why I love political debates ^_^. Debating amongst other minds is the ultimate challenge, where it tests your mental capabilities along with your reasonings and way of interpretation of the the same identical materials. While rei has some "gloomy" remarks, it's all opinion based, and it has to be taken in too.

[dutchdevil]

Hi!
sorry for asking the following, but i couldn't read all 60 pages..
did Fujinami Tomoko Die in the airplane?
And the ending when Hiroki and elis kissed was elis back from Paris or did she not go?
thats all i wanted to know... it wasn't very clear to me so..

Thanks in advance!!

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by dutchdevil

Hi!
sorry for asking the following, but i couldn't read all 60 pages..
did Fujinami Tomoko Die in the airplane?

thats all i wanted to know... it wasn't very clear to me so..

Thanks in advance!!

No, she didn't. She woke up later in the hospital.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by dutchdevil

did Fujinami Tomoko Die in the airplane?
And the ending when Hiroki and elis kissed was elis back from Paris or did she not go?

I guess it's probably too late for needing spoilers, but what the heck...

Spoiler:

As Kazu-kun said, nope, she did not die -- they show her eyes opening later. (It was quite a tease though!)

And I don't have it right in front of me, but I seem to recall that closing scene taking place in Paris. I think they showed a cityscape or something before cutting to the hotel room.

[Skyfall]

^ Yup, they showed a cityscape before cutting to the room - Arc de Triomphe
So ... yes - the scene takes place in Paris - Hiroki went with her.

[DanielSong39]

Fujinami went through successful heart surgery and may live a few more years. And Hiroki followed Elis to Paris to begin his career as an artist, while Yanagi covered his back and became the acting art club advisor.

[dutchdevil]

Allright, thanks for the awnsers!!
now i am able to understand the ending