2009-07-25, 10:49 | Link #241 | |
zzz
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It isn't rocket science or brain surgery..please don't act all high and mighty. Seriously,, your only arguments are 'you haven't read my posts' and 'your western therefore you can't grasp the concept'..can't you at least come up with something new once in a while, especially when he has obviously been reading your posts and has raised legit arguments?
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2009-07-25, 11:13 | Link #242 | |
Absolute Haruhist!
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 37
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You're the only one in the entire thread who's saying the concept isn't hard. The fact is this concept is abstract and hard for people to grasp, not just Westerners. This thread has such a big discussion because this concept is hard to explain and understand. And do I have to come up with 'new and fresh' ideas to point out what others are missing? It takes someone even more 'high and mighty' to deem someone else the same.
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2009-07-25, 11:23 | Link #243 | |
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As a result, more and more people get frustrated. At the end of the day, we never get anywhere because you're too stubborn to even consider the possibility that you might be wrong.
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2009-07-25, 12:09 | Link #244 | ||||
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2009-07-25, 12:52 | Link #245 | ||
Absolute Haruhist!
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Age: 37
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And why do we need to have control over its existance? And when did 'creating energy' ever came into the topic? Does Ki exist? Of course it does. If it doesn't, what is yuuki(courage), honki(seriousness), genki(health) etc.? It is not something thats mystical and magical, it is just the way Asians view the emotions, mood and spirit of humans. If the concept is that easy to you, why can't you see that Ki does not control the mind or spirit or anything else. But instead Ki is the mind, spirit and will of the entire being. When you are honki, you have a serious state of mind, when you have touki, you have a fighting spirit, the will to fight. When you have haki, you have an ambition, a will to reach for your goals and overcome all obstacles. It is your belief and opinion that will is not equals to Ki and also that Ki is not equal in real life or in fiction that makes you disagree with me. I can't convince you if you do not want to believe in what its actual meanings are. Courage, beauty, intelligence, happiness, sadness, Haki(ambition), it is the same words in real life or fiction. You can't seem to see that the words are the same in both real or fictional form, its only that in fiction it has greater effect.
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2009-07-25, 13:16 | Link #246 | ||||||
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2009-07-25, 13:57 | Link #247 | |
Absolute Haruhist!
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 37
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This theory is not mine, but a combination of definition, observations of past examples in other manga and collection of opinions from various people to form a united theory. And you are bringing in science into this topic? Which is obviously a spiritual discussion and on top of that, a Shounen manga topic? You're telling me that 'soul' has no scientific significance, why are you even discussing in this thread in the first place? What does Ki have to do with anything? Are you even discussing about Haki and Ki here? And the way you view fiction is amazing, totally unique, I have no idea how you can relate and understand fiction if they do not consider to be similar to reality in any way to you.
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2009-07-25, 14:32 | Link #248 | |||
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Man, this discussion is really going all over the place. I should stop with going in this direction and focus back on the "will" part, but that wouldn't be nice. Ah well...
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So "will" is "will". Let's focus on that instead of going "chi is will, but chi is also energy, and spirit and haki, and spirit is chi, and will and haki, and energy and blablabla". It adds nothing to the discussion other than making the concept of "will" unnecessarily vague in some silly attempt to describe what's happening in OP as "will". Quote:
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2009-07-25, 15:53 | Link #249 | |
Well Rounded Critic
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: In a class of my own.
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Okay...question: why keep arguing back and forth when you people really have no need to keep arguing with C.A.? I mean: wow. It's been about at least three pages so far that people have been vigorously thrashing at what C.A. believes. Why not just draw your conclusions, and then...get on with life?
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The paragraph where C.A. attributes the Lion or Tiger's innate ability to be recognized as a threat as a manifestation of the animal's Haki is, also, to my mind, inaccurate. I think that Haki can only be exercised real-time by marshaling one's Ki. E.g. 1.) I am at the zoo, and there is a lion prowling at the periphery of the cage, pretty much two or so yard away from me. It is an iron-bar cage. I can be attacked by the animal if I am too close. - If I stay away from the bars, it is not because I am being affected by the animal's Haki. It's just that I am intelligent enough to know that the animal can harm me at a certain distance. - But even if the animal were to be placed in a bullet-proof hard-glass, or flexi-glass cage, if the animal starts actively showing signs of aggression, (baring fangs, rearing up, hissing, growling, roaring, etc.) and I start to get afraid, then THAT is a result of the animal's Haki. The animal is actively expending its spiritual energy, Ki (also known in India as Chakra, and given many other names in many other spiritist religions; all of them are the same in that they are an innate source of spiritual energy that is focused in the area around the navel, and can be manipulated and expended in different forms), into the act of causing me to become intimidated. It is actively trying to exercise its will, or Haki on me. ------------ ------------- -------------- -------------- Now I could very well have come on the scene a LONG time ago, and started berating C.A. about what he said, and saying that he is wrong, and bla bla bla, but see, I couldn't care less. C.A. is not my mother, or my father. I don't need to seek his acceptance before I can understand that my own take on the issue may be the better, in SOME respects. Instead of wasting my time, I just asked him for clarification on some parts of it before I went ahead and finalized my own theory. Regardless of where he may have gone wrong, C.A. contributed a pretty good foundation for you all to work on. Just take it, shape it, and get on with it. I mean: for about THREE PAGES you guys have been at each others' necks...does that make sense?
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2009-07-25, 19:18 | Link #250 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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holypanl
It's not that I don't agree with what you say, but sometimes I can't help myself. If I see a person with a to me inaccurate viewpoint, on a subject that is of interest to me, then I want to confront him/her with it. It's a weakness However, actively debating people can help improve your own interpretation and communication skills. So it's not a total waste of time. Keeps the mind sharp. Although probably not in this case/ on this topic. |
2009-07-25, 22:23 | Link #251 | ||
Absolute Haruhist!
Artist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 37
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@holypanl, that simple reputation and knowledge of a threat is simply just what Haki really means. Which is why even paradox13 who keeps disagreeing with me on the complex theories can come up with the same view:
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So yes it can be said to be just so easy to understand. I've been telling people its the same in fiction and in real life. Why does Luffy have such a great Haki? Why do the Marines fear him? They fear his reputation, which to the Marines is his Haki, his dastardly deeds have made him an intimidating and threatening man. Then you can look at Luffy's Haki in another point of view, the 'ambition' point of view. Luffy's dream of becoming the Pirate King gives him a powerful Haki, a powerful will, a will to dominate and overcome all. This powerful will brings his Nakama closer to him and makes his enemies fear him more. I've also addressed before that Haki can be 'passive' or 'active'. Passive: Having an intimidating presence(tattos/scars/spiky accessories) or reputation(terrorist/gangsterpro boxer). Active: Actively threatening and intimidating others. Quote:
Are you new to manga or Shounen manga to be specific? Spiritual energy and sheer willpower that can overcome anything has always been around. And without even touching science. Do you have some weird concept of what will is that is different from us? Apparently we have been discussing about will in this thread for a long time and have been sticking to it as Haki. You find it nonsensical but we don't. I don't know what is 'will' to you, but to us its completely relevant to One Piece. Even in the story itself there's 'Will of D'.
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2009-07-26, 06:25 | Link #252 | ||
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I'm going to say this again: your way of applying "will" to make arrows stronger is silly. Your way of applying "will" to explain how Luffy got hit hard even though he's made of rubber and Kizaru's light can be hit/interrupted is equally silly. There is 0 evidence in the OP universe that supports your "stronger will" theory applied in this way. Because they, Margaret and Boa, talk about it like it's some special power, it is far more likely that it's similar to the Nen in HxH or the Chi as used in DB. The other reason why your "strong will can do lots of stuff like make Logia DF users hittable by intimidating them" is silly because it would turn OP battles into silly fights where we always have to be wondering "well, clearly he was distracted or intimidated there, why didn't that hit do more damage? How is he still able to use his DF powers so effectively? Why can't he hit him?" The "will" thing can be completely made up and fix the battles like you've been making stuff up as you go about who has got stronger will in which situations. That makes for "unrealistic" outcomes where strength and tactics are second nature to someone getting a crazy power-up to destroy whatever is thrown at him just by "willing it strongly". But anyway, I'm going to step out of this discussion now. I don't see this discussion going anywhere and as you've said before: nothing we'll say here matters until Oda explains Haki (in the manga). Until that time, all we're doing is just speculating. Last edited by DSDSSDWE; 2009-07-26 at 06:35. |
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2009-07-26, 10:15 | Link #253 | ||
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Where I don't agree with you is: Quote:
Your theory is reasonable, well argued and plausible. However, its still only just a theory. Please don't act like its anything more then that.
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2009-07-26, 11:26 | Link #254 | ||
Absolute Haruhist!
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 37
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Even though the link starts from the middle, at the section on Kiai, please do read the entire link. Its only a book preview but it touches on points I've always been trying to say. Quote:
The Haki arrows follow the same concept, the arrows carry the Amazon's Haki, they intention to hit and defeat the opponent. That intention is strong enough to allow the arrows to smash rocks. In the chapter 'Pain', the author talks about how his doubts and distractions in his mind led to imperfections and failure as a result. His Ki is disturbed, imperfect that's why he cannot perform. If your Ki overwhelms your opponents' Ki, you are disturbing or damaging his Ki, weakening his performance and this leaves him vulnerable to you. If you intimidate your opponent, you are sending your Haki towards them, if their Haki is weaker, their Ki will fall apart, making them vulnerable to you. It doesn't matter if its Rubber or Logia. If you're hitting your opponent with Ki or Haki, you are not attacking his physical body, you are attacking him from his Ki, his spirit, from within him. It is not just a physical battle, it is a battle of intentions, the wills of the fighters are clashing. And how do you know someone has a strong will? When he puts everything he has into the fight, he tries everything to defeat the opponent and refuses to lose. This is how someone shows that he has a strong will. 'Willing it strongly' is just wishful thinking and coming up with such an idea just shows that you do not understand how people put their wills to the test. And like I've mentioned many times throughout this thread, whenever Haki is mentioned in the manga, in Japanese, its always just a normal verb or noun. The Amazons have never talked about Haki like it is a special power. The only time Haki was special was when they realised Luffy has Haoushoku Haki. It is special only because Haoushoku Haki is extremely rare, unlike normal Haki that everyone has. It only sounds special to you because the manga translators choose to leave Haki untranslated, making it sound 'special'. But that's not their intention in the first place, they did not leave it untranslated to be special, they only leave it that way because there's no good English word that can describe it properly. Just like 'Nakama', its significance will be lost when translated into English. The Japanese is a very spiritual culture and it has always been reflected in manga. If you cannot grasp spiritual concepts and cannot understand it, I can do nothing to help you.
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2009-08-16, 13:13 | Link #255 |
Is Your Daddy & Its True
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In the Sky with the Birds
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I was just thinking about Haki (The King's Disposition).... it said it was the Haki of the Chosen Ones. I like how that doesn't mean anything, because even though Roger had it, it wasn't unbeatable. And what I mean by "I like how that doesn't mean anything" is that I like how it doesn't guarantee domination of every opponent and so forth.
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2009-08-22, 08:54 | Link #258 | |
Absolute Haruhist!
Artist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 37
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They are very similar to what Shaolin monks can achieve but much more powerful, Tekkai(Iron Wall) for example, Shaolin monks have the exact same skill called 'Iron Body'. Also Shigan(Finger Gun), Shaolin monks can pierce through bricks with a single finger and they're also famous for their 2 finger 'handstands', the grandmaster of 1 finger handstand has passed away though. The 'Ki' in this case is 'intention' and 'will', the intention to inflict damage. And Lucci's Rokuougan is the ultimate incarnation of the will to inflict damage. You can say it comes from Lucci's Sakki(killing intention), for he is known to be extremely violent and bloodthirsty. The result of the extreme intention to cause damage results in a Ki attack, the Rokuougan, which can hurt Luffy just like how Haki attacks affect him.
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2009-10-07, 05:59 | Link #259 |
Redbeard Has Blood Logia!
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Question about hakis and shameless bump of a dead thread!
So what happens when a haki fanboy hits magma,poison like harming logias with their so cool haki attacks? Does logia barrier just gets dissolves by itself or the hakiboy must pay the price right after the hit? Also I really wonder what will become of Smoker and Aokiji if a hakiman grabs them when they are smoking/particle-ing around in Logia form.A scene worth seeing? Violence in One Piece? More 4Kids censorship? |
2009-10-07, 07:14 | Link #260 | ||
Best of both worlds
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A land far, far away... or very, very close, depends on where you live
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Someone like Magellan who coats himself in poison... that's a different story. Quote:
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