Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) - Manga discussion

[HOLLOW08]

Originally Posted by gbanshee

It's because you contradict yourself all the time that I can't take you seriously. You keep quoting things like
"The eyes are useless if the mind is blind"
or
“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. (...)
And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,
ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.”
while YOU are the only one that shuts himself off to all other opinions and views.
It's all about Annie for you.
"Looking at a person objectively is another way of saying to look at them logically and judge their actions, solely by what they did, missing out valuable information that can be misinterpreted, and Logic alone cannot explain everything! Because it minimizes a persons view to only seeing things in black and white...missing the grey are which is what you cannot see."
While other here can aknowledge Annie's benevolent side (while still keeping in mind her cruelty), you can only focus on that. Annie is "white" or "gray", but then everyone else is "black" and pure evil for you, mostly because of your misinterpretation of their words and actions (the part about Mikasa being the reason "Eren cut his ties to his human emotions making him turn into his Titan form, and engage Annie in a fight to which more lives were lost!" especially. It was so far-fetched, deprived of common sense and reason that I couldn't help but just laugh).

Look at EremexMikasa shippers they're practically the same...and you think they're any different? Hell no...so keep believeing that my opinions are biased, because you're only seeing me, but you're forgetting that those kind of people exist as well.
I couldn't care less about shippers, so it's completely irrelevant here. I'm not leaning toward neither ErenxMikasa nor ErenxAnnie, but it's clear that your views are EXTREMELY influenced by the latter, to the point of you twisting events and words of characters to make the water flow your way. That is BAD and not objective AT ALL.

I'm sure everyone will agree with me on that your emotional insecurity simply glares through your view of Annie, to the point of it not even being funny anymore. It would be an interesting conversation if you'd be able to provide SOMETHING meaningful and thought inducing in your arguments, but when it's pure Annie clinging while demonizing every other cahracter, then we have nothing serious to talk about. You clearly don't comprehend the plot enough to care about anyone other than Annie-centric universe. Now I can only challenge you to disagree and provide a counter-argument that will somehow uphold your opinion, but please do it reasonably and WITHOUT another of your irrelevant quotes that only serve as a red herring and a device to discredit the other person's views while upheaving yours and turning you into some kind of martyr. Only THEN I can start taking your opinions seriously.

But isn't the whole manga and anime centered around the theme of contradiction, and hypocrisy?

I mean didn't Annie show us that when she spared with Eren, and imposed the concept of how the human race contradicts itself, and how hypocritical the can be...to assume the theme of power, control, and manipulation.

Just look at these words

Power...The Garrison.
Control...The Survey Corps.
Manipulation...The Military.

There's so much darkness in the whole context of it that it literally allows itself to be known in the Manga and Anime itself. The reason why I've been so Anniecentric is because she's ultimately right! And her father practically taught her this when she was a kid. We see her as the necessary evil, without thinking about who the real evil is?

I believe that there is a war, and though Annie has been seen as evil, in all honesty our own enemies may be our closest friends, and that our own friends and families may be our true enemies. Just look at the Annie vs Mikasa! Friend and Family!

Also the concept behind Soldier vs Warrior...

Soldier > Puppet > Conformist > Hypocrite > Mikasa > Jealousy
Warrior > Revolutionist > Rebel > Contradiction > Annie > (?) still trying to find this one out.

Even their fight wasn't shown...these two female characters are the same person, just different sides. One Pale and Wise, the other Dark and Ignorant.

And Eren is stuck in the middle.

Eren comes from a line of Titan Shifters, and possibly a clan of them, and because Annie has been sent out to capture and ultimately recruit him! I believe that when Annie met Eren...she inadvertently met her opposite self. And Annie taught Eren how to fight back, and stand true and firm in his beliefs. But then Eren became voiceless after joining the Survey Corps...there's something about them that I just don't quite trust. One thing that I can say is that they're very controlling of Eren! Even just as Eren was about to shift, they just told him not to, and to trust them...which became their greatest demise, and weighed heavily in Eren's mind that maybe he could have saved them...but those who comply and conform are destined to fall like sheep into a slaughter house, and they ultimately did die in vain.

Also the theme of Choice seems to pop up in this Manga/Anime...the problem is choice! Annie has armed Eren with the ability to choose, since she had none of her own, and admires him deeply because of it...because Eren has a choice. Mikasa seems to be the opposite, since she practically doesn't give Eren the choice to do what's right, although giving him the feeling of having one. Her quote
"The world is a cruel place, yet a beautiful one". There's something about that quote that really irks me the wrong way, it's manipulative in it's own context. I mean she also said that if Eren joins, she joins too, if Eren makes a decision she will honor it...doesn't that seem a little bit consuming. Eren can't seem to find a moment of peace with himself to find his own answers, without his friends commenting and reshaping his view of it. I mean if you're going to give someone a choice at least give it to them.

This is what choice means to me...

"Being solitary is being alone well: being alone luxuriously immersed in doings of your own choice, aware of the fullness of your won presence rather than of the absence of others. Because solitude is an achievement".

Annie was giving Eren a choice to which he never had, and a voice of his own, and also I realized that Eren reminds Annie of her father, and girls do fall in love with guys who remind them of their dads. Annie's father Leonhardt snr may have been cruel to Annie but he was looking out for her best interest at heart. Here's the "kicker" Annie combat pun intended! Eren finds Annies fighting skills fascinating, and wants to learn from her...think about that for a moment!!!? Leonhardt snr teaches Annie combat....Annie finds lessons stupid, but still learns....Annie meets....Annie spars with Eren....Eren finds Annie's techniques fascinating....Eren want's to learn her father's techniques....Annie get's complimented....relationship is made...really think about it for a moment.

Look I know what I want to say...but my brain needs to cool down a bit.

I just re-read everything from beginning to end twice today...and I thought I'd come down and write what I've come up with.

[gbanshee]

Originally Posted by HOLLOW08

But isn't the whole manga and anime centered around the theme of contradiction, and hypocrisy?

I mean didn't Annie show us that when she spared with Eren, and imposed the concept of how the human race contradicts itself, and how hypocritical the can be...to assume the theme of power, control, and manipulation.

Just look at these words

Power...The Garrison.
Control...The Survey Corps.
Manipulation...The Military.

There's so much darkness in the whole context of it that it literally allows itself to be known in the Manga and Anime itself. The reason why I've been so Anniecentric is because she's ultimately right! And her father practically taught her this when she was a kid. We see her as the necessary evil, without thinking about who the real evil is?

I believe that there is a war, and though Annie has been seen as evil, in all honesty our own enemies may be our closest friends, and that our own friends and families may be our true enemies. Just look at the Annie vs Mikasa! Friend and Family!

Also the concept behind Soldier vs Warrior...

Soldier > Puppet > Conformist > Hypocrite > Mikasa > Jealousy
Warrior > Revolutionist > Rebel > Contradiction > Annie > (?) still trying to find this one out.

Even their fight wasn't shown...these two female characters are the same person, just different sides. One Pale and Wise, the other Dark and Ignorant.

And Eren is stuck in the middle.

Eren comes from a line of Titan Shifters, and possibly a clan of them, and because Annie has been sent out to capture and ultimately recruit him! I believe that when Annie met Eren...she inadvertently met her opposite self. And Annie taught Eren how to fight back, and stand true and firm in his beliefs. But then Eren became voiceless after joining the Survey Corps...there's something about them that I just don't quite trust. One thing that I can say is that they're very controlling of Eren! Even just as Eren was about to shift, they just told him not to, and to trust them...which became their greatest demise, and weighed heavily in Eren's mind that maybe he could have saved them...but those who comply and conform are destined to fall like sheep into a slaughter house, and they ultimately did die in vain.

Also the theme of Choice seems to pop up in this Manga/Anime...the problem is choice! Annie has armed Eren with the ability to choose, since she had none of her own, and admires him deeply because of it...because Eren has a choice. Mikasa seems to be the opposite, since she practically doesn't give Eren the choice to do what's right, although giving him the feeling of having one. Her quote
"The world is a cruel place, yet a beautiful one". There's something about that quote that really irks me the wrong way, it's manipulative in it's own context. I mean she also said that if Eren joins, she joins too, if Eren makes a decision she will honor it...doesn't that seem a little bit consuming. Eren can't seem to find a moment of peace with himself to find his own answers, without his friends commenting and reshaping his view of it. I mean if you're going to give someone a choice at least give it to them.

This is what choice means to me...

"Being solitary is being alone well: being alone luxuriously immersed in doings of your own choice, aware of the fullness of your won presence rather than of the absence of others. Because solitude is an achievement".

Annie was giving Eren a choice to which he never had, and a voice of his own.

Look I know what I want to say...but my brain needs to cool down a bit.

I just re-read everything from beginning to end twice today...and I thought I'd come down and write what I've come up with.

Okay, THIS? THIS is waaaay better. Now while I may not agree with some of the things you said (but on the other hand you did point out some interesting points), this was less Annie-clingy than your previous posts. The only thing that still rubs me really wrong is how you constantly put Mikasa as the devil opposite to angel Annie. Especially here:

Also the concept behind Soldier vs Warrior...

Soldier > Puppet > Conformist > Hypocrite > Mikasa > Jealousy
Warrior > Revolutionist > Rebel > Contradiction > Annie > (?) still trying to find this one out.

Now, are you sure Annie is not a puppet? She is in on it the same way Reiner and Bertholt are, and let me remind you their own words: "We were just brats who knew nothing back then...". And Annie's father? A lot of hints are out there making look like Annie is the one who's a puppet.

The way you keep bringing up Mikasa as the evil counterpart of Annie reminds me a lot of what people do when they're really jealous over someone's relationship and start badmouthing that person. That is not fun at all, it's disturbing.

[HOLLOW08]

Originally Posted by gbanshee

Okay, THIS? THIS is waaaay better. Now while I may not agree with some of the things you said (but on the other hand you did point out some interesting points), this was less Annie-clingy than your previous posts. The only thing that still rubs me really wrong is how you constantly put Mikasa as the devil opposite to angel Annie. Especially here:



Now, are you sure Annie is not a puppet? She is in on it the same way Reiner and Bertholt are, and let me remind you their own words: "We were just brats who knew nothing back then...". And Annie's father? A lot of hints are out there making look like Annie is the one who's a puppet.

The way you keep bringing up Mikasa as the evil counterpart of Annie reminds me a lot of what people do when they're really jealous over someone's relationship and start badmouthing that person. That is not fun at all, it's disturbing.

As I said our greatest enemies may be those who wrap themselves as someone whose close...look at Judas as an example! He was one of Jesus's closest blood bother/friend and he ultimately betrayed him in the end, and ultimately all of his other brothers/friends did the same.

Also Religion seems to be apparent in this Manga/Anime too...

Now apply this knowledge to Eren...he's sorrounded by lot's of friends that he cares for, but who's to say that they won't ultimately turn their backs on him...I mean Jean practically wanted the system to stay the same, and didn't care as long as he didn't have to lift heavy objects "Gluttony". Sasha seems to steal a lot of food, to which comes the assumption of "Greed", Connie comes under the assumption of fear "Sloth", Armin is "Pride", Mikasa is most definitely both "Envy/Wrath" , I haven't figured out who "Lust" is yet...but I figure it could be "Erwin", although I'm not sure of it, could be "Levi" but he's too cool for the title. Although Levi kind of reminds me of Vergil from Dante Aligheri's novel Divine Comedy.

Annie, Reiner, Bertholt and Ymir may come under the impression as puppets, but they're kind of are like honest devils, who all want to redeem themselves, and become angels again! Annie above all wants to redeem herself, that's for sure! She practically wants to be close to people and have friends, she so desperately wants to cling to a little part of her humanity that's left in her. Her tears show that she's still human and that she still feels. Look at her memories, and the betrayal that came after. Yes they seem to be controlled by some power behind this, but ultimately they just want to go home, they want to achieve their mission so bad that they're willing to be controlled like puppets just to get the job done.

I respect your opinion...really I do, but I'm not jealous of Mikasa, don't get me wrong because I really like her character, there's attributes to her that I really love, but Mikasa really rubs me up the wrong way, I mean there's "Protecting" the ones you love, and then there's "Obsessing"! I'm sorry but I really have to say this but? There's something very obsessive about Mikasa!!!!!!!!!!!??????????

I know Eren is her only family left, and she doesn't want to be left alone, because loneliness can be torture! But come one Mikasa l find yourself a hobby, do something with your life. If you're clinging to one person then you're not letting them grow independently.

Mikasa is not Evil, but she's slowly falling under the influence...such as her actions when facing Historia just as she's about to kill Ymir indicates that she's willing to cover her hands in blood to get the job done, even if it meant slicing through Historia, even after being begged no too. Since listening to what they can say, and learning the truth can be of valuable information, but Mikasa wanted nothing of it. Not wanting to hear the truth is an act of ignorance in itself. And ignorance is a path to fear, fear is a path to leading to hate, and hate is a path which allows us to be consumed by evil.

Also she didn't want anymore talk when Armin and Eren we're trying to get Annie to speak to them, and tell them the truth, by protesting her innocence, but I doubt they still wouldn't understand < (I despise this word) comprehend her reasons. Out of all the trainees at the academy, the one person who was more mature than the others of their generation was Annie. Like I said "Pale and Wise", she even speaks like an old woman, even making remarks such as trying to teach Eren how to talk to girls, whilst sparring together...though Annie's young she still acts flirtatious, which is fun.

Look I don't really hate Mikasa, as I said she's a brilliant character! But when it comes to a relationship! Is Mikasa right for Eren? That's the question!!!?????

Damn I sound a little bit like Yoda in that paragraph.

I really like that I spoke to you" Because "YOU" and a few people that I've spoke to on other forums above all the people I really respect.

[Kiltias]

Originally Posted by HOLLOW08

Also Religion seems to be apparent in this Manga/Anime too...

If you wanna call the Norse Myths a Religion.....
What was it....The Walls are a Gift of God.

In Norse mythology, Miðgarðr became applied to the wall around the world that the gods constructed from the eyebrows of the giant Ymir as a defence against the Jotuns who lived in Jotunheim, east of Manheimr, the "home of men", a word used to refer to the entire world.

But come on, Jesus?Judas?Sins?Divine Comedy?Are you even aware of the crap you're writing?

It's the NORSE.Not some biblical shit.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by gbanshee

Take off your Annie-colored glasses and look at her objectively. She's no different from Reiner and Bertholt. They all have reasons for their actions I bet, but that doesn't excuse their actions - they do have a lot of empation while in human form, yes, but as soon as they turn into Titans, they're a lot like Eren - frenzied, focused on their bloodlust, desire do destroy and accomplish their mission at all costs, no matter how many people around them die in the process. Only when they're back to their human selves their conscience kicks in.

Well... doesn't that one statement change everything then?
The way you said it basically comes to that, that Annie, Reiner and Bert can't be hated. It is Female, Collosal and Armor Titans' that have to be hated.

Make sure that they can't transform again and ta-dah, all good.

Titan Trio and Eren aren't really that different. If not for Mikasa, Levi, Hanji, Armin and everyone else. Eren would have killed lots of humans himself. We still don't know what or who he really is but Eren simply got lucky to be around the people he is, to be raised where he was.

Titan Trio did not have such luxury, they were raised in different surrounding with different priorities.
Ymir, despite being a titan also lived under different circumstances what puts her between the 2. She is not from Titan village so there is no need for her to kill humans for whatever purpose it might be but she will take action if needed. And even so Ymir chose them over humans. If Eren and Ymir were from the same village as them, they would be the same.


Yes the trio is guilty and needs punishment but they are not evil.
Evil people are those who literally give no shit aka villains like Joffrey, Malificent, Joker and etc.

IF they gave no shit then Connie, Jean, Armin and possibly even Mikasa would be dead right now. Annie alone saved Jean and Connie from getting eaten by titans.

Those 3 saved them when they could have easily looked away and let them die or crush them themselves.

Yes they are villains, yes they are guilty, yes they need some kind of punishment but NO, they are not evil. They made bad choices but they also made good choices, word evil is just too strong for them. Especially for Bert and Annie who did not develop a second personality like Reiner and made all their positive choices rationally while remembering who they are.

[HOLLOW08]

Originally Posted by Kiltias

If you wanna call the Norse Myths a Religion.....
What was it....The Walls are a Gift of God.



But come on, Jesus?Judas?Sins?Divine Comedy?Are you even aware of the crap you're writing?

It's the NORSE.Not some biblical shit.

All religions are technically the same religion...just different interpretation.

Such as...

Odin/Zeus/Brahma/Jehovah/Osiris
Thor/Heracles/Visnu/Jesus/Heru(Horus)/Buddha
Loki/Hades/Shiva/Lucifer/Seth

All the same in a way.

[gbanshee]

Also Religion seems to be apparent in this Manga/Anime too...

Now apply this knowledge to Eren...he's sorrounded by lot's of friends that he cares for, but who's to say that they won't ultimately turn their backs on him...I mean Jean practically wanted the system to stay the same, and didn't care as long as he didn't have to lift heavy objects "Gluttony". Sasha seems to steal a lot of food, to which comes the assumption of "Greed", Connie comes under the assumption of fear "Sloth", Armin is "Pride", Mikasa is most definitely both "Envy/Wrath" , I haven't figured out who "Lust" is yet...but I figure it could be "Erwin", although I'm not sure of it, could be "Levi" but he's too cool for the title. Although Levi kind of reminds me of Vergil from Dante Aligheri's novel Divine Comedy.

Whooaaaa, you went too far there. As much as the part about religion being right (SnK DOES seem to dislike religious movements a bit), then the part about 7 sins makes no sense whatsoever and you seem to not even know what each sin represents. "Gluttony" for Jean and "Greed" for Sasha? If anything, Sasha would be Gluttony. But still everything else is far-fetched and doesn't fit at all (especially with Armin representing Pride when he is one of the most docile and timid character out there, only beginning to change now)

Mikasa is not Evil, but she's slowly falling under the influence...such as her actions when facing Historia just as she's about to kill Ymir indicates that she's willing to cover her hands in blood to get the job done, even if it meant slicing through Historia, even after being begged no too.

If being ready to cover her hands with blood to get the job done is a signal of Mikasa falling under the influence of evil, then what does it signal for Annie? She is way past that readiness, she has countless lives on her hands, all sacrificed to accomplish her mission. Does that mean she is evil? Or is it a double standard for Mikasa and Annie?

Look I don't really hate Mikasa, as I said she's a brilliant character! But when it comes to a relationship! Is Mikasa right for Eren? That's the question!!!?????

No, that's NOT the question. See, you're constantly looking at the whole thing from the shipping point, which shoudln't be the case if we're supposed to evaluate the characters independently and objectively. Forget all about Eren and his relationship with both Annie and Mikasa. Only apply those AFTER you look at their actions and choices and only then try to make a sense of it. Otherwise you will just stretch and bend their actions and words to make them fit this template.

Well... doesn't that one statement change everything then?
The way you said it basically comes to that, that Annie, Reiner and Bert can't be hated. It is Female, Collosal and Armor Titans' that have to be hated.

Nope. They retain their consciousness while transformed, so you can't just separate their titan forms from their human forms. They DO act more instinctively, yes, but that doesn't mean they're excused for their actions, as they transform KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY in the first place. If Annie, Eren, Bertholt and Reiner all transformed by accident only, like Eren did the first time, then it would cast a different light on the whole matter, but as soon as they started doing it consciously (Eren too, when fighting Annie), they are just as much responsible for their actions in titan form as in human form in my opinion. So yes, even though it was for a greater cause (each in their own mind), both Annie and Eren have a lot of blood on their hands. Same goes for Reiner and Bertholt, and they're aware of that themselves - otherwise they wouldn't feel bad about revealing the truth to Eren, which they clearly do (and then there's Bertholt moment of breakdown, when he screams "Who do you think wants to kill people?!")

There are many moral layers to the whole titan ordeal, let's not simplify it to either "they're bad" or "they're good". Shingeki no Kyojin tells us constantly that the world is a cruel place and it's survival of the fittest, and that to win you sometimes have to abandon your humanity, but at the same time it never tells us that doing so cleans you of all responsibility for the pain you cause, quite contrary.
It's a war out there, and both sides have their own story to tell, their own heroic deeds and despicable secrets.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Raviel

Wait what? The story is good but the characters are bad? O_O

I'm not saying the characters are bad, just that the story is so much better.

[Xero8420]

Hollow, I recognized you somewhere else, but I think you need to stop now. Even though I'm in the same ship as yours, but I don't waste my time being butthurt over the other shippers undermining. Please simmer down and take a deep breath of fresh air. Stop misleading us or face the infraction.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by gbanshee

Whooaaaa, you went too far there. As much as the part about religion being right (SnK DOES seem to dislike religious movements a bit), then the part about 7 sins makes no sense whatsoever and you seem to not even know what each sin represents. "Gluttony" for Jean and "Greed" for Sasha? If anything, Sasha would be Gluttony. But still everything else is far-fetched and doesn't fit at all (especially with Armin representing Pride when he is one of the most docile and timid character out there, only beginning to change now)

If anything, then Eren would be "Wrath" himself though.

[HOLLOW08]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

If anything, then Eren would be "Wrath" himself though.

You're right GreyZone since Anger seems to be the source of what triggers his shifting.

@Xero8420 I promise I'll stop, though I'm madly in love with these two adorable character Annie and Eren, I promise I'll keep my feelings to myself even when opinions clash.

However...

It's nice to meet you again! And yes you do recognize me, and I recognize you since we met on another forum.

[gbanshee]

Originally Posted by HOLLOW08

@Xero8420 I promise I'll stop, though I'm madly in love with these two adorable character Annie and Eren, I promise I'll keep my feelings to myself even when opinions clash.

There's nothing wrong with that. Annie is a great character, probably one of the most developed ones so far (but that can still change, we still don't know everything about others). Though it's important to remember where to draw the line.

[HOLLOW08]

Originally Posted by gbanshee

There's nothing wrong with that. Annie is a great character, probably one of the most developed ones so far (but that can still change, we still don't know everything about others). Though it's important to remember where to draw the line.

I promise to you that I won't go overboard.

About the character development....!!!?

You know I really would love to see more of Daddy Yeager's history, and his involvement with making artificial Titan Shifters. I believe that Eren isn't a natural born Titan Shifter like Annie, Reiner and Bertholt, since they seem to be more in control of their Titan Shifting abilities, and we have yet to find out what Erens Titan affinity is? I mean we have Annie who has the ability to crystallize, Reiner to create Armor around his body to use as a shield, Bertholt's Steam ability. Could there be more tribes of Titan Shifters out there, and what are they capable of?

I believe the reason why Annie's father taught Annie in harsh conditions was to make her more adept to her Titan shifting transition as she was a child, and this seems to be present in her exceptional control of her Titan form. Though seeing her father techniques as being useless! They seem to be more refined, and in control, such as to say that her body seems to work well with her Titan form. Also her ability to crystallize seems to be a form of her internal characteristics, the purity of it suggests that, though she's cold as ice, she's actually pure in nature and character and visible, since her titan form seems more naked and feminine in comparison to Ymir's, which can be interpreted as being frail and weak. But Annie's crystal form shows her true self, meaning she's strong/er and more matured.

And this can be seen since Annie's more mature in nature then that of her own peers.

However her fathers seems to have a code of conduct which suggest that he's probably rich and wealthy...I mean just read it and listen to yourself speak his surname "Leonardt" < rich mans surname.

Reiners Titan form seems more brutish, and due to him being a natural born Titan shifter, suggests that his Titan trait as being something akin to being dense, or rather destructive...as you saw his first intoduction where he broke through Wall Maria and then later developing a rather double identity or bipolar nature to him, which suggests that Reiner is like a caged animal, one side he's kind and considerate of other, even playing a big brother figure to Eren, Armin, Jean and Annie, and the next turning rather irky, and jumpy and violent in Nature. His Armor seems to be a form of protection, since he's warrior minded, his armor looks almost similar to knight armor, or a shell so to speak! A shell to hold his true self from coming through.

Bipolar in nature, developing 2 identities.

Although I do think he means well...I never hated him in the first place

Betholt being a natural born Titan himself, seems to suggest that he's not only powerful but slow in nature, due to his size...comes into the concept of him being more easily angered as seen when Armin bluffed/manipulated a reaction from him, using Annie his crush so to speak as a source of angering him, and turning him into a volatile and violent person. Though his size seems to suggest that he's big hearted, and being easily angered coupled with his lack in confidence suggest that he will most likely hesitate first, but out of anger and the lack of intelligence jump into the battlefield, and out of his own foolishness and steam will probably cost him dearly and probably die, because of his slow movements. Bertholt also seems to be a natural born Titan shifter, and seems to have good control of his Titan form, just like Reiner and Annie...though Annie's form seems to be more refined, and mature in Nature.

Ymir is a beauty make no mistake, and her adoration for Historia seems to come really into focus after she aqcuires her Titan form, killing Bertholts and Reiner's friend and family in front of them robbing him of his Titan form. I too believe that she was able to transfer their power into her own. Though the Titan remains more masculine than feminine, I believe that her character is somewhat influenced by masculine principle which seems to bring the context of her lover Historia. I haven't got a problem with two females showing love for one another....and to tell you the truth! I love this couple, I really do since they're just too cute when they're together, and I really would like to see Ymir and Historia's history be explained a little bit in detail.

Eren Yeager's Titan looks to be a synthetic version of Annie's, Reiner's and Bertholts, since his was an injection/transfusion whereby his father used him as an experiment...and I believe that the key he has, seems to have some sort of connection to it. And I believe that Dr Yeager himself was experimenting on how to turn humans into Titans with the help of Dr. Moto himself...although it doesn't seem to be in perfect synch with Eren, since he constantly had difficulty controlling his Titan form from going berserk, and go berserk as well. We still haven't found out what his Titan ability is? Or what Eren can do, since he has a terrible time hardening his own skin, but I do believe that Annie can help him with this problem! The problem is how to get her out of her crystal form. Although his ability seems to suggest that it may be fire as seen when he fought Annie, in his berserk form.

I truly Believe Annie is the only one who can help him, learn how to harden.......<dirty thought in process.

I also believe that this Tribe would be better suited for Eren to live his life on, and the idea of Annie kidnapping him for a mission was to say that he doesn't belong within the Walls, and that his destiny is to become a warrior, since Shifters are warriors, and his mutual connection to Annie seems to suggest that he's not supposed to live within the confines of the Walls. I think that Dr Yeager is leading this army, since he's not returned back from his mission...and the titans in the walls, seem to be some form of bodyguards to protect, or probably to use as tools in an event of war.

I'm really curious about those Titans in the walls, and the Ape titan too...it's facial features seem to be similar to Dr Yeager's, but it's too early to presume.

[draxdeveloper]

Originally Posted by Kiltias

Underlined Part is what makes a lot of people wonder about the page where the Top 10 are shown.

1st Page:
Historia
Sasha
Connie
Marco
Jean

2nd Page:
Eren
Annie
Bertholdt
Reiner
Mikasa

It's one of the reasons why I like the possibility of another Shifter being within the 6th to 10th and the more I re-read the Manga the more I think Sasha could be one as well as Marco's killer.

Eren,annie,Berthold,Reiner... And if Mikasa are a shifter? Like Eren is... I don't read the first 30 chapters, but i think that is really weird the sparkling effects when mikasa killed her kinnapter in the anime, and i sometimes think if it was just stilistic..


Also, i have some doubts.

1) someone said (don't remember where) about a reason to the titans eat the humans... I see all the anime and read the manga before chapter 32, and found no reason to this... It was said somewere? Because really make no sense, they could just kill like annie have done, why eat? why not just crush?

2) Why "normal titans" attack the shifters?

[RinLeonhardt]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

However the fact that Reiner wants to marry Historia is as much as canon. As long as Historia doesn't make a stand this is a triangle!
Now if Berthold was secretly in love with Reiner this would get pretty interesting.

Even though he does want to marry her, the way she is around Ymir signifies a relationship where nothing really needs to be said, and like Ymir is clearly in love with Christa given the fact that; she, Ymir, is a lesbian; Christa obviously feels the same way. And from a few things I read, Reiner is gay. So, sorry to stamp on your parade. Lel.

[gbanshee]

Originally Posted by RinLeonhardt

Even though he does want to marry her, the way she is around Ymir signifies a relationship where nothing really needs to be said, and like Ymir is clearly in love with Christa given the fact that; she, Ymir, is a lesbian; Christa obviously feels the same way. And from a few things I read, Reiner is gay. So, sorry to stamp on your parade. Lel.

The whole "I want to marry her" is just that, Reiner's appreciation and approval of Christa's good nature, as it is heavily implied that Reiner is homosexual. Also, Bertholt joining the triangle is highly unprobable as he has a sweet spot for Annie and is infatuated with her.

[HOLLOW08]

Originally Posted by gbanshee

The whole "I want to marry her" is just that, Reiner's appreciation and approval of Christa's good nature, as it is heavily implied that Reiner is homosexual. Also, Bertholt joining the triangle is highly unprobable as he has a sweet spot for Annie and is infatuated with her.

Although the feeling is not mutual in Annie's behalf...Annie can't stand being around Bertholt, because Bertholt reminds her of what she is a "monster" and Annie hates it.

Even after being complimented by Reiner and Bertholt in the underground after Annie saved her friends from being killed...as she was complimented, she just looked at those two as to say "Whatever" and as she walked away it suggested that her thoughts were more like as though Annie was saying "Piss Off" to them both.

[gbanshee]

Originally Posted by HOLLOW08

Although the feeling is not mutual in Annie's behalf...Annie can't stand being around Bertholt, because Bertholt reminds her of what she is a "monster" and Annie hates it.

Even after being complimented by Reiner and Bertholt in the underground after Annie saved her friends from being killed...as she was complimented, she just looked at those two as to say "Whatever" and as she walked away it suggested that her thoughts were more like as though Annie was saying "Piss Off" to them both.

Yeah, she certainly doesn't feel comfortable around them. Who knows, maybe it has something to do with how they met - remember, at first it was Berwick assigned to the mission with them, but he got eaten by Ymir. Then, somehow, Annie replaced him - maybe she didn't want any of it and ended up blaming Reiner and Bertholtd for dragging her into this mission. That might have been one way it happened, but that's speculation only.

[bastek66]

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[Breimoon]

Lol poor Armin. And wonder what Historia and Eren are talking about. Only a few more days until it comes out ç_ç