Best Moe Tournament 2011 (Korea)

[Zeroryoko1974]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

Looking to see if -- Madoka losing results in another reset of the tournament.

Btw, KBM will never live that down.

Homura will do it as many times as it takes

[broken270]

Supporting Mikoko. She will have it tough, though.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Zeroryoko1974

Homura will do it as many times as it takes

Yet, even she has her limits. The "infinite" time loop can only go so far.

[Zeroryoko1974]

If they decide on resetting the tournament again, I say let the tournament organizers pick who they wanted to win and just end the sillyness

[hinakatbklyn]

I have the strangest feeling, even if there are votes that don't count, this result will stand and Madoka will advance, only because Mikoto already won her championship.

(7) Akemi Homura (Madoka)

[wontaek]

http://moet.anizone.net/graph/Duplic...nd=3&combat=54

translation


전체 투표수 : 732 Total Vote Number
카나메 마도카 : 483 : 65.98% Kaname Madoka
미사카 미코토 : 249 : 34.02% Misaka Mikoto
---------------------

레벨 1 투표 : 615 Votes from Anizone Activity Level 1
카나메 마도카 : 422 : 68.62% Kaname Madoka
미사카 미코토 : 193 : 31.38% Misaka Mikoto
-----------------------------------------

애니존에 리플이나 글이 하나도 없는 투표 : 439 Votes from those without any replies or posts in Anizone.net
카나메 마도카 : 348 : 79.27% Kaname Madoka
미사카 미코토 : 91 : 20.73% Misaka Mikoto
---------------------------------

중복투표 검출 알고리즘 A를 기준으로 뽑아낸 고유 수 : 577 Likely Unique voting accounts according to multi-vote detection algorithm A

중첩 3 초과 : 4 Exceed 3 multi-vote case 1
카나메 마도카 : 4표 Kaname Madoka 4 multivotes

중첩 3 초과 : 134 Exceed 3 multi-vote case 2
카나메 마도카 : 134표 Kaname Madoka 134 multivotes

중첩 3 초과 : 4 Exceed 3 multi-vote case 3
카나메 마도카 : 4표 Kaname Madoka 4 multivotes

중첩 3 초과 : 4 Exceed 3 multi-vote case 2
카나메 마도카 : 4표 Kaname Madoka 4 multivotes

The sitemaster is reviewing the results

[broken270]

There should be a check in this. I'm more suspicious of Madoka's numbers than Mikoto's. Glad that the results are getting reviewed.

[Kotohono]

Looking at the time chart, I'd say ISML's results had an impact, since later halfway after it was revealed Misaka won there, a large increase of Madoka votes happened, and voting:
7. Homura Akemi

[Demi.]

I think it's about time the admin put this contest to rest...

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Demi.

I think it's about time the admin put this contest to rest...

After all the BS -- they have till New Year's to finish.

[hinakatbklyn]

Homura wasn't going to let Mio beat her again. Even if the votes are also above 500, Homura is too far ahead to even be challenged. And if by chance all the votes are legit, Madoka would still have enough votes after the multi-votes are taken out and she would advance over Mikoto.

(8) LinYin Fang (IS)

Edit: As I expected. Madoka did advance. It looks like either Homura or Madoka will be the winner of KBM at this rate.

[wontaek]

Madoka vs Mikoto Final tally was announced

http://anizone.net/Moet_Forum/18192698

Many fraudulent votes were uncovered and removed, and in end Madoka was declared winner

The final tally in Madoka 337, Mikoto 249.

[zato_1one]

LMAO! Can it be more ridiculous than this? If the result is still not finalized then don't bother to announce it in the official site! Regardless of the final result, it confirms my believe that KBM staffs want Mikoto to win. They can say it's a security measure or they can detect Anti-Mikoto voters using their algorithm or whatever as many times as they want. But do they really think that doing this will make it looks more legit? It's actually no difference than to shout out that "OMG! My waifu can't lose by this many votes. Something must be wrong. I want my waifu to win instead!", seriously. It's absurd enough to announce the result and then decide to change it later. It may be tolerable for the first time but... Just how many times Mikoto cheats her death up till now?

I don't mean to support cheaters. But to me, it's also not acceptable for staffs to take liberty to change the result as they see fit. Just look at another tournaments, even if sometimes the result was surprising. But no one said that it was because of cheating (until further notice). Everyone accepted it because it was an official announcement. If the staffs themselves make a fuss over it then how the hell can I be sure that what they are doing is correct? What would you feel? If you only check the result at official site and don't read the forum. You are waiting to vote for your character in next round, only to find out that the result was changed and your character was disqualified... It would be simple horrible...

To tell the truth, I always believe that one of the reason why KBM staffs decided to reset the tournament was because they lost Mikoto so early.

Originally Posted by Demi.

I think it's about time the admin put this contest to rest...

I totally agree with this.

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

LMAO! Can it be more ridiculous than this? If the result is still not finalized then don't bother to announce it in the official site! Regardless of the final result, it confirms my believe that KBM staffs want Mikoto to win. They can say it's a security measure or they can detect Anti-Mikoto voters using their algorithm or whatever as many times as they want. But do they really think that doing this will make it looks more legit? It's actually no difference than to shout out that "OMG! My waifu can't lose by this many votes. Something must be wrong. I want my waifu to win instead!", seriously. It's absurd enough to announce the result and then decide to change it later. It may be tolerable for the first time but... Just how many times Mikoto cheats her death up till now?

I don't mean to support cheaters. But to me, it's also not acceptable for staffs to take liberty to change the result as they see fit. Just look at another tournaments, even if sometimes the result was surprising. But no one said that it was because of cheating (until further notice). Everyone accepted it because it was an official announcement. If the staffs themselves make a fuss over it then how the hell can I be sure that what they are doing is correct? What would you feel? If you only check the result at official site and don't read the forum. You are waiting to vote for your character in next round, only to find out that the result was changed and your character was disqualified... It would be simple horrible...

To tell the truth, I always believe that one of the reason why KBM staffs decided to reset the tournament was because they lost Mikoto so early.



I totally agree with this.

You are not making any sense. Multi-votes were detected. Many Accounts has been suspended for being clone account after several checks. Mikoto still was declared Loser.

Also, the first reset came after Madoka's defeat, not Mikoto's defeat.

Round of 16, Group 8 Vote Safeguard thread has been made => http://anizone.net/18194833

[broken270]

It looks like Madoka still wins even with votes shaven off from her. Should there be a check on today's match as well, or is it okay, since the numbers there are about the same as the numbers for Madoka v. Mikoto.

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by broken270

It looks like Madoka still wins even with votes shaven off from her. Should there be a check on today's match as well, or is it okay, since the numbers there are about the same as the numbers for Madoka v. Mikoto.

Madoka indeed won even with large number of votes removed.

Vote check was done. Some multivotes for both Homura and Mio were detected. Amount of multi votes for Homura was 55, which is much smaller than the victory margin. Sitemaster is checking the results, to get the numbers right, but the fact that Homura won is beyond reasonable doubt.

Multi vote check results

http://moet.anizone.net/graph/Duplic...bat=55&round=3

전체 투표수 : 586
아케미 호무라 : 426 : 72.7%
아키야마 미오 : 160 : 27.3%

레벨 1 투표 : 469
아케미 호무라 : 345 : 73.56%
아키야마 미오 : 124 : 26.44%

애니존에 리플이나 글이 하나도 없는 투표 : 296
아케미 호무라 : 231 : 78.04%
아키야마 미오 : 65 : 21.96%
중복투표 검출 알고리즘 A를 기준으로 뽑아낸 고유 수 : 517

중첩 3 초과 : 55
아케미 호무라 : 55표 <= Number of detected multivotes for Homura

중첩 3 초과 : 5
아키야마 미오 : 5표 <= Number of detected multivotes for Mio

가입을 3일 내에 해서 투표한 투표 : 152
아케미 호무라 : 139 : 46.96%
아키야마 미오 : 13 : 4.39%
이전 경기에 전혀 투표하지 않은 투표 : 113
아케미 호무라 : 105 : 35.47%
아키야마 미오 : 8 : 2.7%

[zato_1one]

Nope, if you don't understand it then it's because you don't try to relate it. It's fine because you trust them. But I don't, it's as simple as that.

I'd say that they actually believed that Mikoto was cheated in the first place. They weren't satisfied and that was why they tried to find the evidence of it. Homura and Madoka were also the case. They were popular characters too. So, many people should get really upset at that time. With enough evidence and also to pretend to ease the upset, that was when they could finally declare the reset. Do you forget how can Mikoto pass Yui after the reset? And now this? What if Mikoto didn't win ISML? Those 249 votes of Mikoto are all legit? But Mio who got only 160 votes had possible 5 multivotes? Wow, that's totally making sense.

All of that is just my suspicious. Nothing can be proved from it, I admit. It's OK. But my real issue here is that why don't the staffs check and finalize the result before update this page? http://moet.anizone.net/?Phase=VoteResult&lang=eng

Edit: By the way, I'm willing to retract my words if you want.

[ahelo]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

LMAO! Can it be more ridiculous than this? If the result is still not finalized then don't bother to announce it in the official site! Regardless of the final result, it confirms my believe that KBM staffs want Mikoto to win. They can say it's a security measure or they can detect Anti-Mikoto voters using their algorithm or whatever as many times as they want. But do they really think that doing this will make it looks more legit? It's actually no difference than to shout out that "OMG! My waifu can't lose by this many votes. Something must be wrong. I want my waifu to win instead!", seriously. It's absurd enough to announce the result and then decide to change it later. It may be tolerable for the first time but... Just how many times Mikoto cheats her death up till now?

I don't mean to support cheaters. But to me, it's also not acceptable for staffs to take liberty to change the result as they see fit. Just look at another tournaments, even if sometimes the result was surprising. But no one said that it was because of cheating (until further notice). Everyone accepted it because it was an official announcement. If the staffs themselves make a fuss over it then how the hell can I be sure that what they are doing is correct? What would you feel? If you only check the result at official site and don't read the forum. You are waiting to vote for your character in next round, only to find out that the result was changed and your character was disqualified... It would be simple horrible...

To tell the truth, I always believe that one of the reason why KBM staffs decided to reset the tournament was because they lost Mikoto so early.

Mikoto is attracting way too many attention this year. First, the alleged cheating in ASt, 2nd surprisingly winning ISML (not really she won the first necklace), and 3rd this.
Oh well at least she's well loved. . . I hope.

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

Nope, if you don't understand it then it's because you don't try to relate it. It's fine because you trust them. But I don't, it's as simple as that.

I'd say that they actually believed that Mikoto was cheated in the first place. They weren't satisfied and that was why they tried to find the evidence of it. Homura and Madoka were also the case and that was when they could finally declare the reset. Do you forget how can Mikoto pass Yui after the reset? And now this? What if Mikoto didn't win ISML? Those 249 votes of Mikoto are all legit? But Mio who got only 160 votes had possible 5 multivotes? Wow, that's totally making sense.

All of that is just my suspicious. Nothing can be proved from it, I admit. It's OK. But my real issue here is that why don't the staffs check and finalize the result before update this page? http://moet.anizone.net/?Phase=VoteResult&lang=eng

The votes are checked through automated algorithm. Sadly the algorithm cannot be perfect, and new vote checking algorithm is being developed. The new vote check algorithm can uncover multi-votes, but the sitemaster wants to make sure that algorithm is not removing legit votes. Right now, the sitemaster will use that algorithm when there is large amount of multi-voting being suspected. If algorithm do find significant amount of multi-votes, the sitemaster manually rechecks the results to make sure it got it right.

In the case of Madoka vs Mikoto, we had weird jump of votes, the algorithm found 134+ multivotes, all for Madoka, and the sitemaster started manual verification of accounts of the votes being suspected of bein multivotes. How can you expect manual check to be done in an instant?

The problem with vote checking algorithm development is that you need actual multivotes to train the algorithm , and until the algorithm has been trained to satisfactory degree, you can't blindly trust it. In the past, KBM used to enjoy thousands of votes, thus a hundred or two multivotes didn't change who won, usually. For sake of speed, minimal vote checks were used. Now, with mere hundreds of votes, that one hundred fraudulent vote easily can overturn the results. The vote checking algorithm needed to be upgraded, and it just that upgrade process has not been finished. The old vote check algorithm, the one that gives you near instantaneous result right now, is being used as baseline case. When sitemaster is satisfied with the new vote checking algorithm, he will fully implement it, so you can get instantaneous results using the newest vote checking algorithm.

For independent verification of results, the baseline result of instantaneous tally using old vote checking algorithm must be made known public. This is why you see 'not the final' results in the results page. There is no way manual recount can be done quickly. Think about how recounting really goes in REAL world elections. This case is very similar to the real life recounting of votes.

I have been involved with vote checking in ISML. In all cases KBM staff did the recount, I saw enough reasons to justify a recount, as warning flags like strange jumps in vote total, the vote being concentrated in very few countries, and the time-vote total graph not resembling graph for most of other contestants in days before and after the match were ALL SIMULTANEOUSLY raised. All my observations concerning Mikoto's match has found no evidence of KBM staff trying to fix the result.

Finally, if KBM staff really wanted Mikoto to win, they wouldn't have set Mikoto up against such powerful contenders as Hirasawa Yui ( who placed 2nd in Japan Anime Saimoe and 4th in KBM 2011 ) nor powerful newcomer like Kaname Madoka. There were many weak characters Mikoto could have been set up against.

When I expressed doubts about recent AST results, I backed it up with statistical measures available to me. If you still doubt the integrity of the KBM staff in doing the recounts, I would be grateful if you do the same and tell us some objective facts behind your doubt, preferably involving numbers. As far as numbers go, I find it much more likely that KBM staff did the proper thing in doing the recount and correcting the results. I would be delighted if you can point out to me some numerical consideration I missed or present to me some internet group activity that has contributed to sudden increase in votes for Yuina, Hirasawa Yui, or Kaname Madoka.

[zato_1one]

Bad wireless is bad. -*-

Sorry to disappoint you. But I don't bother to check it in dept. It's not serious business enough to me. And I don't think each character's strength is the same in all tournaments.

If you are not so sure about the result and it can be changed later then isn't it better to delay the announcement or write something to clarify the situation? If your answer is "no" then it's just that we are not in agreement here. And it's probably not worth anymore discussion. It's simple that I don't feel like to trust them anymore. That's what happen when you don't take the announcement seriously.

I'm not that stupid. Looking at the result at first glance, I can also feel that something is wrong when the total votes are jumping from average. It is expected that Madoka has many illegal votes. I actually expect both to have illegal votes though. But it's fine. I don't try to picky about it. Now that you said the admin tried to recount votes by hand. Oh, well. I'm glad to know that he is so devote to his work. But he may be too tire now to update his site to latest results. If I have to ask anymore then can you tell other staffs to update it (including the conclusion of the tie match between Victorique and Kuroko)? Also, if it's not too much to ask, please update the title of the site to 2011 for English language. I fear that I may be mistaken as KBM 2011 never exist.