2011-04-23, 04:18 | Link #322 |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
|
In my eyes, that's the same as asking why didn't Gandalf fly the One Ring all the way to Mordor, on eagle's back. What appears to be the easiest and shortest way might have unforseen complications and consequences. In the way Sauron's eye sees everything, the Wish > Magical Girls > Witches system was crafted in such a way that it take a very well formulated wish that exploit something in the system, AND the potential to do it.
Last edited by Sheba; 2011-04-23 at 05:21. Reason: typos |
2011-04-23, 05:52 | Link #323 |
Segmentation fault
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
of course! i am definitely rooting for homu-chan! i could see her victorious over kuroneko and rise above the angel tachibana herself XD
well regarding moemura i love this scene with madoka's mother. so sweet and they seemed to be blood-related and most likely mother-daughter pair than madoka XD the eyes give it all and pair it with both have overly protective to madoka XD |
2011-04-23, 11:47 | Link #324 |
Banned
|
The biggest glaring issue I have with Homura, is how she gave up trying to convince Madoka. I mean, her goal is to prevent Madoka from contracting, right? That means she'd have to stay by Madoka's side forever and continually kill any Kyube that she seemed to be about to contract with. Do any of us feel that is something we could, perfectly killing any Kyube just in time for years? How well do you think that would go down with Madoka, to have this animal splattered in her face every single time? Given imperfect human nature, she is going to miss it sometime.
Even if Homura handled WN alone, I don't think it likely Kyube is just going to give up on Madoka, which makes her decision to go cold and distant all the more puzzling. She's had months to think about this, so she would have had to consider the long-term. She knows that Madoka doesn't want to be tricked, and could avoid being tricked if she is told. So why doesn't she? It's a fairly glaring idiot ball issue. |
2011-04-23, 13:37 | Link #325 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Age: 38
|
Quote:
So if I had to guess I'd say she tried to talk her out of it but didn't work so she decided to use scare tactics instead. Anyway Kaijo don't you think you're letting this get to you a little too much?
__________________
|
|
2011-04-23, 13:56 | Link #327 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston
Age: 34
|
Quote:
The "hope" that Homura was desperately clinging to was that she could protect Madoka successfully, even though it was obviously impossible to any rational observer. She had to cling to that hope though. Accepting that her goal was completely impossible would have lead to despair and something like the end of episode 11. The "idiot ball" refers to when a character behaves out of character in a less-intelligent-than-normal way to make a plot possible. Homura is an idiot, but that's an integral part of her character, so she's not carrying the idiot ball.
__________________
|
|
2011-04-23, 14:56 | Link #328 | |||||||||||||
Banned
|
Quote:
Quote:
Let me ask you a question: How exactly was Homura supposed to prevent Madoka from contracting (and thus sacrificing herself in Homura's eyes)? What do you think the best way to accomplish that would have been? Hang around Madoka forever, when Homura outright stated she would be gone after WN? Quote:
Homura ain't gonna be around forever, so wouldn't it be a kicker if Homura took off after WN, and Madoka contracted, thus "sacrificing" herself? Brilliant! Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Let me try it here: Accept that I am right and stop posting. Not going to tell you why. Well, did that work to convince you? Or would you say that I need to make a better case in order to convince you? Quote:
Yes, just came up with it off the top of my head, and may need some refinement, but hey, we got plenty of time-loops to jiggle with the word choices. Quote:
Kyube: "Witches are born from curses, like magical girls are from wishes." Madoka: "Born from curses? So do you mean witches were once people, too?" And that's where it would start. Natural, logical questions that should have occurred to normal, reasonable people. Quote:
in the meantime, for your edification, you may wish to consider reading the following: 8 Classic Movies That Got Away with Gaping Plot Holes 6 Movie Plots Made Possible by Bafflingly Bad Decisions We can talk after, once you realize that, yes, plot holes and bad decisions are legitimate issues in critiquing a particular work. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||||||||
2011-04-23, 15:43 | Link #329 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Quote:
Define dealing successfuly with Kyoko. Does that involve threatening her with a grenade and then running away? She never really even tries to convince Sayaka and Kyoko to go along with her.
__________________
|
||
2011-04-23, 16:50 | Link #330 | ||
Banned
|
Quote:
Regardless of where she got experience, you have to realize that she spent time in that classroom, and with her friends, for about 5 months prior to our timeline. That's time enough for her to get comfortable with them, and indeed, you can see her attitude change from someone meek, to someone more self-assured. Facade or no, she has changed, and was clearly thinking; the battle in episode 11 should prove that, if nothing else. Quote:
|
||
2011-04-23, 17:24 | Link #332 | |
Guess what time it is?
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Age: 38
|
Quote:
She fiddles with it, removes the lid, and even (I didn't notice this until I re-watched just now) brings it to her lips. But she never takes a single sip, and leaves it behind when she walks away. Madoka, by comparison, seems to have ordered a full meal. |
|
2011-04-23, 18:31 | Link #334 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston
Age: 34
|
It was never a plot point that she didn't eat. Also, normal people eat. We never saw Homura in the process of using the bathroom either, but it's safe to say she did that at some point.
It was a plot point that Madoka is something like her only friend ever. Quote:
The orignial point of this discussion was that you said it was unrealistic that Homura couldn't figure out how to get Madoka to not contract with Kyubey. I was saying that this was realistic given Homura's lifelong lack of social experience, which 4-5 months of school life wasn't going to correct. The idea that she would just not know how to handle the situation is not far fetched. I hate to sound like I'm bashing Homura in my posts. The fact that Madoka is her only friend is what makes her so adorable.
__________________
|
|
2011-04-23, 19:07 | Link #335 | |
Banned
|
Quote:
With infinite time loops, she could at least experiment in various ways to convince Madoka, but she doesn't. She really only approaches Madoka once, and from then on, all the meetings are Madoka going to see Homura. I dunno, I think most people would at least try, rather than give up. There is at least no harm in it. |
|
2011-04-23, 22:10 | Link #336 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
|
Quote:
It's because she has already tried reasoning with her to no avail that she decides to do the opposite and distance herself from her. I don't know why there is this continued assumption that Homura hasn't tried when she has. There is no evidence to suggest that Madoka could be deliberately convinced and informed either when everything that happened were never really under Homura's control. Homura did not plan on Mami dying, nor did she want Sayaka to turn into a Witch for Madoka to see. Homura did not want Kyoko to sacrifice herself for Sayaka either, because Kyoko was Homura's only ally before she is left alone again on Walpurgis Night. Homura's breakdown and confession wasn't completely intentional either, as she was visibly shaken when Kyubey accused her of making things worse for Madoka. All the tragedies that Madoka witnessed were not completely Homura's doing. What exactly makes you think Homura can infallibly calculate and control every event? Even if she had a good plan, what guarantee is there that everything will happen according to Homura's will? Claiming that Homura can control Madoka's will just because of prior experience is a logical fallacy when events do not necessarily occur the way she plans it. |
|
2011-04-24, 01:32 | Link #337 |
Senior Member
Author
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 47
|
Something has just hit me while reading on the definition of ZA WARUDO.
Does Hiro Nakamura ring a bell? And, oh... Is Homura the alter-ego of Dr. Who? Maybe she's a distant relative of a certain character who can stop time and use that to kill opponents.
__________________
Last edited by sa547; 2011-04-24 at 01:49. |
2011-04-24, 03:56 | Link #338 |
Banned
|
Walpurgisnacht is indisputably Homura.
The gear motif is based on the inside of Homura's shield. It's the only Witch that consistently appears in every single timeline, just as Homura always lept through different timelines as a Magical Girl. Madoka--who is now omnipresent in the space-time continuum and knows where each Witch was born--tells Walpurgisnacht "I'll protect you before you take this form" before the camera IMMEDIATELY cuts to Homura lying on the ground, being shielded by Madoka. just fyi. |
2011-04-24, 05:10 | Link #339 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There is also the issue of these dancing witches upon WN's death/undoing which seems to support WN being a congregation of witches more than WN being the witch form of Homura. To be fair I'm not trying to shut down the possibility of WN being Homura's witch form entirely altogether, just trying to show that WN equalling Witch Homura is not indisputable based on what was presented.
__________________
|
|||
2011-04-24, 05:12 | Link #340 | ||
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
|
Quote:
Also, Homura's time travel has been pretty consistent as a "conscience transfer" mechanism, rather than a physical item transfer. It'd be highly unlikely that Walpurgisnacht is a witch Homura from the future who went back in time (just to shoot that theory down in the bud before it's mentioned). Thus the only way for Walpurgis to appear from Homura would be if Homura does become Walpurgis in causality... except that we always see Walpurgis AND Homura together. Root point: It's hardly indisputable. And there's another reasonable alternative to what Walpurgisnacht is: Quote:
__________________
|
||
Tags |
characters |
|
|