Toradora! - Voice Actor Appreciation & Discussion

[shinryou]

I thought sounded vaguely familiar.... Fuuko huh? Also didn't know about Kitamura Eri voicing Rimi in Chaos;Head. Man, so many good voice actors in this....

[Fran~]

Yui Horie is doing an amazing work (again), last episode (18) was beautiful how she managed to put so much pain and regrets to Minorin's voice...

[puretsundere]

Now that the series is over, I can look back at how great I felt the voice acting was in the series.

Out of everyone, I think I enjoyed Kitamura Eri's work as Ami the best. I really think she captured Ami's character and personality really well. I really enjoyed her as Rimi in Chaos; Head and Rin in Kodomo no Jikan, and her role as Ami was her best work to date.

I absolutely love Hocchan. And I always enjoyed her roles as well. For some reason, I always seem to watch her more often in her less popular roles. (Mizuho in Otoboku, Suzu in Nagasarete Airantou, Manabi in Manabi Straight, etc.) Once again, Horie Yui did a great job of being the spunky and upbeat Minori.

I felt Majima Junji made a good Ryuuji. Not really to familar with a lot of his work, but enjoyed his work.

And, I really liked how Kugimiya Rie played Taiga. To me, she was able to distinguish her voice for Taiga from the voices of Shana, Nagi (Hayate no Gotoku), and Louise (Zero no Tsukaima). And I really felt her work here was a lot better than her work in Akane Iro ni Somaru Saka (which was just awful.. the anime I mean). I really wonder if I'll be able to adjust back to listening Nagi in HnG and Shana in Shana III.

So yeah, really enjoyed the voice acting in the series.

[Guardian Enzo]

Continued from ep 25 topic...

Let me add this point - I fully understand how some people might not care for Yui Horie as an actress. For me, Romi Paku is like a Sean Penn or Meryl Streep - someone who is able to lose themselves in a character so that you forget it's acting. From a range as wide as Kumormitsu in "Kurozuka" to Taiga in "Major" she becomes the role - woman or boy, it doesn't matter. Yui Horie is more of a personal pleasure - like a young Jack Nicholson or Katherine Hepburn. She's demonstrably herself in every role, so you pretty much have to like who that is. But I also think she finds different places in these characters so that they all live as individuals - from her bravura Ayu in "Kanon" to "Toradora" to Honda in "Fruits Basket", each is very much their own person.

I just don't get that from Kugimiya Rie. I don't expect Romi Paku, but I don't get anywhere near the emotional layering that I get from Yui. Instead of Nicholson, I get Adam Sandler. She's found a persona that works, and she plays it to the hilt. If the overall material is well-written and the premise tones her worst impulses down a little (Toradora, Shana) it's tolerable. If she's allowed to vamp it up and the writers play it as little more than a personal showcase for her stereotypical antics (HnG, ZnT - season 2 especially) it's gag-worthy.

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I just don't get that from Kugimiya Rie. I don't expect Romi Paku, but I don't get anywhere near the emotional layering that I get from Yui. Instead of Nicholson, I get Adam Sandler. She's found a persona that works, and she plays it to the hilt. If the overall material is well-written and the premise tones her worst impulses down a little (Toradora, Shana) it's tolerable. If she's allowed to vamp it up and the writers play it as little more than a personal showcase for her stereotypical antics (HnG, ZnT - season 2 especially) it's gag-worthy.

Out of curiosity, where does Alphonse Elric figure into that persona you described?

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Continued from ep 25 topic...

Let me add this point - I fully understand how some people might not care for Yui Horie as an actress. For me, Romi Paku is like a Sean Penn or Meryl Streep - someone who is able to lose themselves in a character so that you forget it's acting. From a range as wide as Kumormitsu in "Kurozuka" to Taiga in "Major" she becomes the role - woman or boy, it doesn't matter. Yui Horie is more of a personal pleasure - like a young Jack Nicholson or Katherine Hepburn. She's demonstrably herself in every role, so you pretty much have to like who that is. But I also think she finds different places in these characters so that they all live as individuals - from her bravura Ayu in "Kanon" to "Toradora" to Honda in "Fruits Basket", each is very much their own person.

I just don't get that from Kugimiya Rie. I don't expect Romi Paku, but I don't get anywhere near the emotional layering that I get from Yui. Instead of Nicholson, I get Adam Sandler. She's found a persona that works, and she plays it to the hilt. If the overall material is well-written and the premise tones her worst impulses down a little (Toradora, Shana) it's tolerable. If she's allowed to vamp it up and the writers play it as little more than a personal showcase for her stereotypical antics (HnG, ZnT - season 2 especially) it's gag-worthy.

You said you responded to my post here but it has little to do with what I was trying to say.

It's hard to argue about subtlety as everyone will have a different opinion but in saying Taiga is the same performance, can you actually come up with any comparable "Dramatic" scenes in either previous role to the ones in Toradora (The breakdown in 19, the confession in 21, and the "wedding" in 25)? One of the distinctions between Toradora and those previous is that for once she actually has to act like a couple with the male lead rather than just pine and blush from afar. You can complain about the quality of the acting yes, but I don't think she's done a role like this where she was required to so it's hardly predictable from my point of view.

But again, in your original post you wrote that Louise and Shana are practically the same role when even a cursory glance at the role would say otherwise. ZnT is almost pure physical comedy (Albeit, poorly done) whereas Shana is more drama heavy with much lower key humor. Shana also isn't aggressive nor physically abusive of Ryuuji (Shana-tan and training (Which Yuji volunteers to do) not withstanding).

And if we're talking about scripts rather than character interpretation, in regards to Taiga vs. the others one big difference stands out: Her relationship with Minori.



In all the previously mentioned roles even if they developed a begrudging respect she's still competing with the other girls for the male lead's attention. That never happens in Toradora and in fact she actively tries to set him up with her friend. Was that predictable?

And finally as far as Horie goes, I agree she's great but it isn't as if she doesn't reuse voices too. Minori sounds about as close to Eri from School Rumble as Taiga does to Louise.

I still would like to discuss the other points I brought up but this is the one that directly relates to your post. You're arguing essentially that using a similar speaking voice in multiple roles amounts to laziness on the actor's part. The most obvious counter-argument is that every voice actor has a set number of voices. Yui herself has recycled voices as I mentioned earlier, even your example of what yu consider the best VA out there, Romi Paku, does it too (Hitsugaya and Edward Elric being obvious examples). For an example of Kugimiya playing something drastically different I'd point to Alphonse. On top of that, reusing a role doesn't mean your "Adam Sandler" either. Brando was a great actor and he was hired many times to fill in roles with his distinct style and charm. (And accent, naturally)

I also am pretty sure that you'll respond to this by saying I've missed the point and that your problem is with the "Feel" of the character but the problem I'm having here is that you've never really bothered to define what it is that connects Kugimiya to these previous roles so I naturally am assuming it's the tone of voice she uses for them and the occasional reused catchphrase (Urusai!). The former I've already argued is different enough, albeit subtly, for me to recognize the difference and the former is more inside humor than laziness. It's simply a wink to her fans.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Raiga

Out of curiosity, where does Alphonse Elric figure into that persona you described?

Well now, that's clearly a different sort of performance I admit - albeit one that pre-dates the explosion of Rie-mania that led to her franchising. That said, I don't think the performance is especially good - Al is probably the most interesting character in FMA on paper, but comes off rather bland in the anime version. But yes, it isn't Shana/Taiga/Louise/Ad nauseum.

[Raiga]

Really? I thought she did a good job in that role.

In any case, if you have an issue with typecasting, that's really an issue on the end of the casting director.

[Guardian Enzo]

"Occasional" re-used catchphrase? I think that's a bold understatement. The way you can tell Rie has become a caricature of herself is that they're designing roles around her - actually animating the character to fit the franchise. "Look - we got the latest Kugimiya Rie vehicle!" I'm not saying that if I were in her shoes I wouldn't cash the checks, but if the material isn't strong enough to rise above that (as Toradora mostly is) you've got problems.

It's interesting that you should mention Brando, because he very much fits in with the view of the actor I referenced earlier as personified by Nicholson and in VA by Yui Horie - recognizably themselves in every role. But again, I think Brando found a lot of different places in Stanley Kowalski than Vito Corleone. You criticize me for criticizing Rie for using a similar voice in different roles. But these are voice actors - this is all they have to convey their performance. It's more than catchphrases (though they're symptomatic of the larger problem). She uses the same inflections, the same emotional reactions to every conflict, the same simpering tone of self-pity when she's supposed to be sympathetic. I can't be more specific than that - for me, I hear the same voice saying different words. I hear no vocal modulations in Taiga that I don't in Louise - just more interesting words and a little less shouting.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Raiga

Really? I thought she did a good job in that role.

In any case, if you have an issue with typecasting, that's really an issue on the end of the casting director.

In that, I agree - she's just happily going along for the ride, and who could blame her? It's the creative teams behind these series that choose to pimp her as a franchise.

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

"Occasional" re-used catchphrase? I think that's a bold understatement. The way you can tell Rie has become a caricature of herself is that they're designing roles around her - actually animating the character to fit the franchise. "Look - we got the latest Kugimiya Rie vehicle!" I'm not saying that if I were in her shoes I wouldn't cash the checks, but if the material isn't strong enough to rise above that (as Toradora mostly is) you've got problems.

It's interesting that you should mention Brando, because he very much fits in with the view of the actor I referenced earlier as personified by Nicholson and in VA by Yui Horie - recognizably themselves in every role. But again, I think Brando found a lot of different places in Stanley Kowalski than Vito Corleone. You criticize me for criticizing Rie for using a similar voice in different roles. But these are voice actors - this is all they have to convey their performance. It's more than catchphrases (though they're symptomatic of the larger problem). She uses the same inflections, the same emotional reactions to every conflict, the same simpering tone of self-pity when she's supposed to be sympathetic. I can't be more specific than that - for me, I hear the same voice saying different words. I hear no vocal modulations in Taiga that I don't in Louise - just more interesting words and a little less shouting.

They didn't really design the role around her. I'd assume she was cast as Taiga fairly early on in planning for the adaptation but I don't think Takemiya knew there was going to be an anime adaptation when she started writing this series (She was a virtual unknown and her previous work didn't get one).

I think I'm understanding where you're coming from on the self-pity angle (That is something that links Shana and Louise, though few other things do), but let me give it a shot at explaining where I'm coming from:

The key difference between this role and those is that before this, she was never required to do anything but pine from afar. Anytime the natural conclusion to her desires would come close it would be pulled away by outside events on misunderstandings. This is the first role I can think of for her where she was required to to interact as a couple with the male lead and in calling her behavior predictable, it seems that you're not acknowledging that. Perhaps you weren't as impressed by the performance as some of us here (I thought she was very good) but again, this is new territory for her as far as I know.

And about voice modulations, there are differences. She does slip into a more saccharine inflection during slapstick scenes but look at those clips I posted earlier. During the more serious scenes her tone really does shift, this being one of the most obvious examples:

Her last line in episode 13, at around 42 seconds into the video. It's been a long time since I've seen Shana and I never got around to watching season 3 of ZnT but I can't recall her ever sounding like this in those shows.

[Guardian Enzo]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the mangaka designed the character for her - but that JC Staff designed the anime version around her. And that they all do in these star vehicles of hers. Obviously someone like Alphonse is already pretty well cemented in people's minds so that's a little different (assuming she's playing the role in FMA2, and I haven't heard any differently).

And yes, I do agree that her character did have some different interactions here than her previous ones - and again yes, I'm not all that impressed with the performance. I don't hear anything different in the performance - just the dialogue. If you do, fair enough.

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the mangaka designed the character for her - but that JC Staff designed the anime version around her. And that they all do in these star vehicles of hers. Obviously someone like Alphonse is already pretty well cemented in people's minds so that's a little different (assuming she's playing the role in FMA2, and I haven't heard any differently).

Toradora! wasn't based off of a manga.

Just making sure that's cleared up.

And on the other hand, if she's a good fit for the role and does it well... what can you say? I haven't read the Toradora! novels so I dunno how Taiga was portrayed there... but it can't have been too different from the anime version or the plot just wouldn't have worked out the same.

And yeah the two leads, Park Romi and Kugimiya Rie, will be reprising their roles in the reboot of FMA.

[Guardian Enzo]

My mistake - the light novelist. Is that the word?

[puppygod]

Originally Posted by Raiga

I haven't read the Toradora! novels so I dunno how Taiga was portrayed there...

Pretty much identical to the anime. I haven't spotted any serious difference in characterization. It's the same Palmtop Tiger in the novels.

[yezhanquan]

On Al, I don't blame Rie-san. Speaking as if you're wearing a helmet that covers your whole head don't allow for variation.

[Tyabann]

Kugimiya does other roles, and voices, besides Shana/Louise/Taiga/Nagi.

Go look her up on ANN or something and see.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

My mistake - the light novelist. Is that the word?

"author" works fine (for male or female).

As far as Taiga's characterization, the novels aren't as linear in development as a light glance at the anime may imply. To use the simplistic labels... she's dere pretty early and remains tsun when called for. Sometimes all at once.
The anime did a fair job of reflecting this but apparently it was either too subtle for some or some folks don't actually pay attention to what they're "watching".

[Taken]

I haven't seen Horie Yui getting such a good character to work on for some time and I think she did it very well with Minori. I think she did the crazy, vulnerable, emotional and brash side of Minori nicely.

I wouldn't think Kugimiya Rie is only used in loli roles. She is gonna be in another upcoming series... you guess it, she is going to do Alphonse Elric again in FMA. Nothing loli about that character haha

[Proto]

Well now, that's clearly a different sort of performance I admit - albeit one that pre-dates the explosion of Rie-mania that led to her franchising. That said, I don't think the performance is especially good - Al is probably the most interesting character in FMA on paper, but comes off rather bland in the anime version. But yes, it isn't Shana/Taiga/Louise/Ad nauseum.

Just to add some more discussion to the mix, I'd say that Kugimiya Rie role in Maria Sama ga Miteru as Touko is probably the best I have ever seen from her, even better than the Alphonse you seem to just frown at, or the Toradora/Shana/Louise typecast you seem to dislike, showing that she can actually perform a very different type of character, and string a whole new array of emotions when the script allows her to.