Circumcision

[Alchemist007]

I find arguing amongst circ'd and uncirc'd folk pretty hilarious, like anyone is going to claim to have suckier dicks?

[Narona]

I cannot compare it with ear piercing, though, as it is an entirely different set of procedures, I do note we chose to NOT pierce our daughter's ears. 1, I had empowered and educated myself on what exactly I wanted out of things, 2, Don't know if she'd WANT her ears pierced. She'll get them pierced at her coming of age, as can my son.

I chose to not have my ears pierced xD I don't want to >o<

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

Interesting to note, circumcision is a fashion in japan now with most men undertaking the operation at late teens and early 20s purely
for cosmetic purpose. The cut look is considered masculine there.

How so? I mean, no one will go look at it aside from the ones who will see them nude. That doesn't include a lot of people.

among the guys

So the real question is, do the japanese girls really care about it?

[Nightbat®]

What the hell is this topic about?




The only thing I've learned in this topic so far is to NOT be 'cut' when you're concious (or at least able to remember it)

but where are the negative effects?
"Hygene"? BS! we all have to wash our willies!
"More/less Sensation" not if you never knew
"Child's freedom to decide for itself"? Since when did babies get a right to vote?

For the record, I still have my extra piece of tubing,....and don't care
I have friends that 'lost' it,... they also don't care

and btw: Male circumcision != Destruction of female genitalia and ability to enjoy sex

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Mystique

Now I'm itching to get my debating nemesis Ledgem on this scene

Jeez, to be honest, I've been away for so long that I'm not sure if I can still form coherent arguments and write essays anymore... I have an hour to kill while waiting for a gel to finish running, though. Might as well try.

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Yes, sorry, my English got mixed up--I meant after six months have passed. But seriously, what the hell does it have to do with circumcision?

Your thought process is that a vaccine is necessary for health, but circumcision is not. One could very easily argue that a vaccine is not necessary, and in fact you may be interested to know that there is a large backlash against vaccines by many Americans today (largely fueled by fears that vaccines induce autism, combined with the complacency that arises because we do not have any horrible diseases running rampant throughout our society). At the same time, it's already been pointed out that circumcision can help stave off urinary tract infections which, if left untreated, can kill you. (That, among other hygiene-based arguments.)

The real point of comparing the two is to counter what you said about doing something to someone when they don't have a choice. It is customary for babies to be circumcised, and babies have no say in the matter. The similarity to vaccinations is that babies, toddlers, etc. are vaccinated as well, and they have no say in the matter, either. Both processes are unpleasant, and in theory both processes could be life-threatening. The statistical probability of it is incredibly low, however.

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Nope, but as I (and the article I linked) said before, there's plenty of evidence of nerve endings present in the foreskin that provide more sensibility.

This is something that I've occasionally wondered about, and I guess I'll just agree with Mystique that it'd be nice if we had an 18+ section on the forum to carry that discussion a bit farther.

Based on the nerves, yes, there should be greater sensitivity for an uncircumcized male. However, we're discussing circumcision in a baby, not a grown man. One could surmise that, just as the blind seemingly have more sensitive hearing (because the loss of one sense causes them to "upregulate" another), circumcised males are able to make up for the lack of nerve endings by "upregulating" the focus that each present nerve ending does receive. It's not as crazy as it sounds, and neurology is not so simple that one could say more nerves = more sensation. There's a lot involved. As far as I know, nobody has ever done a sensitivity experiment between males who are and are not circumcised.

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Sorry, but that's the way I see it. It's the same deal in the end--whatever your appreciation for what your parents decided is, it's still mutilating a child for no good reason at all. If you really want to get circumcised so much, why don't you decide to do it when you're older?

If I weren't circumcised as a baby, you can damn well bet that I'd never agree to have it done. It isn't necessarily because I'm against circumcision (I'll expand a bit on that at the end of this post), but rather because the mere thought of anything sharp by that region gives me chills. If it were done to me when I was a toddler (or any time after which I had memory of it being performed) I may very well have some psychological trauma of the event. As it is, I do not believe that I've suffered any mental drawbacks, nor are my genitals deformed.

Originally Posted by chikorita157

Well, I don't see a necessary point of the operation if the child can't decide and completely unnecessary unless your religion requires to.

Religion is a relatively poor reason.

Originally Posted by chikorita157

If it's not crucial to life, then if it's not broke, then don't fix it...

Who decides what's crucial to life?

Originally Posted by chikorita157

and hygiene isn't a valid reason as along you take bath/showers and the most part, most people practice good hygiene practices in well developed nation

Let me tell you this: if I had a dime for every time I saw someone use the bathroom and not wash their hands (with soap), I'd be a very, very rich man. Weep as you read this next bit: I'm a student at a research institution located within a hospital. These are doctors and biomedical researchers I'm observing. I can only imagine that it's much worse elsewhere.

Hygiene is a very valid reason, and keeping that region clean if you're uncircumcised involved a bit more than just showering every day (from what I've read and heard).

Originally Posted by chikorita157

it's completely unnecessary psychological damage to the baby .

Citation please. I have very little backround in psychology, but I don't think that a baby can develop PTSD or other mental problems from an event like a circumcision.

Originally Posted by chikorita157

Also, it does not make you less of a man for not having it circumcised... it's a completely ridiculous claim.

Agreed.


Alright, Mystique blew my cover: I'm Jewish. I don't practice the religion, but many of my day-to-day habits and such are carried over from religious practices (for example, I avoid pork and shellfish - not because of the Kosher laws, but because they're unappealing to me, probably because my non-religious family always avoided it, and they probably avoided it because their non-religious parents' parents avoided it, etc.). So I've been circumcised.

I don't think I often wished that I wasn't circumcised. When I was in the age range of 16-18 I probably wondered about it every now and then, because I'd heard about how the sensitivity would be dulled relative to someone who wasn't circumcised. Poor me, how horrible - that was the sort of thinking I occasionally got into, but I never obsessed over it. I can't elaborate much, but let's just say that these days, the thought doesn't cross my mind at all.

While I'm still a few years away from having children, I do have mixed feelings about circumcising my own son. I can agree with many of WanderingKnight's sentiments - you're taking away something from someone when they're young and without their consent. The potential for heightened sensation "down there" isn't something that you can get back. And what are we doing it for? Religion? A social custom based on a medical/hygienic premise that's debatable? Those don't seem like very good reasons.

On the other hand, there's always the reason of "it happened to me and it was good enough for me" - I know that, based off of my experiences, the supposed cons of the event aren't noticable. I presume that those were my father's experiences, too, otherwise I'm fairly certain that he would not have put me through it. On the other hand, I've heard about how difficult it can be to maintain hygiene of the region when you're uncircumcised - do I really want to put my child through that extra maintenance, in a procedure that I can't help with because I've never had to deal with it?

So I'm still undecided, and I'll probably end up deferring to my non-Jewish fiancee for her opinion.

(Still 30 minutes to go on that gel - sigh...)

[Vexx]

I'll just derail whats left of this odd discussion by suggesting that a little less sensitivity in that region might help one last longer - increasing the odds the partner gets to have a thrill as well.

Seriously though, there are arguments for and against but obviously people all over the world do fairly well statistically on either path.

[Dilla]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'll just derail whats left of this odd discussion by suggesting that a little less sensitivity in that region might help one last longer - increasing the odds the partner gets to have a thrill as well.

I had been itching to mention this, but me being nineteen, I probably couldn't do it without coming off as a prick.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Dilla

And you haven't experience circumcised sex before, so you can't prove that circumcized sex demonstrates less pleasure than un-circumcized sex.

I'm just going to agree to disagree at this point and stop arguing. I'm circumcisized, and I haven't found a reason to go on a rampage about how my rights were violated and my manhood was taken away.

That's the biggest irony about this all.
WK says 'I wanna know how the hell it can be so widespread'
So now you're hearing views from people from different cultures, those who are circumcised, various reasons too to help explain it to you and you try to shoot them down with your own logic going by how you live, as an uncircumcised man.
Yes, being 19/20 and thinking as an adult and taking into account what would be needed to but cut to your dick if you were to attempt this now must be cringe worthy and all ugggh, but you are over playing this.

You harp on about 'taking baby's freedoms away', so we counter you with this being part of a hell of a lot of choices that parents make on their children, it's not something 'special' or 'unique' or so terribly tragic otherwise the UN would have been on this years ago.
Seeing as it's been practiced for hundreds of years (in possibly even worse way or uses of tools than by today’s ethical standards) and those circumcised haven't set up protest marches or rallies, I fail to see where the drama is stemming from.

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Alright, Mystique blew my cover: I'm Jewish. I don't practice the religion, but many of my day-to-day habits and such are carried over from religious practices (for example, I avoid pork and shellfish - not because of the Kosher laws, but because they're unappealing to me, probably because my non-religious family always avoided it, and they probably avoided it because their non-religious parents' parents avoided it, etc.). So I've been circumcised.

*hands Ledgem a gun*
You can shoot me with that later if I screwed up, but the reason I remembered/mentioned ya based on your religion was cause I've seen instances of you referring to that on the religion thread, on the Israel and Palestine thread and so on, thus already exposed.
If I overstepped my mark however, I do apologise.

For a case like this, I sincerely wanted to hear from someone within one of the dominant groups concerning this, whether you'd be for/against it was my own curiosity, I just know we don't agree on a lot of the same things

WK wants to know how it can be so widespread.
Okay *rolls up her sleeves*
Been a while since I last wasted hours of my life writing just the one post.
The reasons are many for people not just in America, but all over the world.
Gonna headline/detail the segments for circumcision in here and quote a few regarding the hygiene and sex factor.
Let's begin.

The article is from here, the headlines are as follows.
Split under 3 main categories of why people may circumcise.

Circumcision is Essential.
a. Religion
b. Parental Request
c. Desire to be circumcised (as an adult)
d. Tight foreskin
e. Inflammation
f. Torn or tight fraenulum.

To once again expand on the parental front:

Most males are circumcised soon after birth in the U.S.A., Canada, Australia and New Zealand but until recently this was rare in Continental Europe. In Britain, routine operation is much more common among the well-to-do than manual workers; and it is an open secret that Prince Charles was done by a Mohel, or Jewish circumciser, and that his two brothers are also circumcised. Every parent wants to do what he thinks best for his child and this may include a sincere belief in the benefits of circumcision. Common reasons given by parents requesting the operation are "His father was done"; "It's more hygienic" and "It will prevent trouble later in life". One can sympathize with the man who has unpleasant memories of having the operation later in life and thus seeks to avoid the same situation in his sons by requesting circumcision at birth. Likewise, one can understand the request when an older son, or child of a relative, is distressed by circumcision later in childhood.

Circumcision is Advisable
a. Climate or occupation.
b. Redundant foreskin.
c. Very loose foreskin.
d. Physical or mental handicap.
Circumcision is Optional.
a. Prevention of cancer of the penis.
b. Prevention of cancer of the neck of the womb.
c. Prevention of cancer of the prostate gland.
d. Hygiene.
e. Aesthetic considerations.
f. Delays orgasm.
g. Improved stimulation during intercourse.
h. Increases the efficiency of a small penis.
i. Reduces the risk of V.D.
j. Circumcised brothers.
k. Unsatisfactory circumcision.

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'll just derail whats left of this odd discussion by suggesting that a little less sensitivity in that region might help one last longer - increasing the odds the partner gets to have a thrill as well.

Then I'll do it for you. I've been itching just as bad.

Aesthetic considerations, delays orgasm and improved stimulation during intercourse:
The contents of the article regarding these three aren't written crudely at all, but methinks it best covers what I could ever say without being blunt and "perverted" about it, so I've just bolded points that I've hinted at earlier in this post.
Spoilered for sensitivity but as Nightbat said above.

Male circumcision != Destruction of female genitalia and ability to enjoy sex

Neither does being more 'sensitive' mean 'better sex' or that the man is gonna have more of a good time than someone who isn't.
If there's anything I want circumcised males to walk away with from this thread, is the fact that they haven't 'lost' the ability for greater pleasure and enjoyment for sex.
On a female note, being sensitive means being able to orgasm faster and possible go mulitple.
On a guys note, he'll get pure shots of pleasure for being so damn senstive, yes, but he'll probably orgasm faster too, thus game over.

Originally Posted by Narona

How so? I mean, no one will go look at it aside from the ones who will see them nude. That doesn't include a lot of people
So the real question is, do the Japanese girls really care about it?

The question could be 'do women generally care about it'?
Again, this isn't 18+, so I can't link a few blogs and websites of women who're mad into giving oral sex to guys who've compared, discussed and given their opinions on both circumcised and uncircumcised penises.
While it definitely shouldn’t be the make or break of a relationship, it's a sexual preference, just like men have it on whether a girl shaves below or not, or how big her breasts are.
People are attracted to different things, circumcised penises is one of them.

Spoiler for Sexuality and Circumcision reasons:

E:
Many women think that their baby sons look neater and tidier after circumcision. In their husbands some think the circumcised penis is more handsome and do not regard the operation as a mutilation. They may well be 'turned on' by the sight of the naked glans but the absence of smell and smegma may be contributory factors. Women are more willing to participate in fellatio (oral sex) if their partner is circumcised. The glans without its masking foreskin tends to produce a more prominent bulge in tight clothing which some females find sexually stimulating.
F:
A male reaches his climax or orgasm ('comes') in about half the time it takes a female to achieve orgasm. The ideal is for the female to have one or more orgasms before the male reaches his climax. It is not uncommon, particularly for inexperienced men, to have difficulty in delaying orgasm to meet the needs of their partner. Various measures, including circumcision, may be used to delay orgasm. After circumcision the glans becomes dry, tougher and less sensitive. Most men find that after the operation orgasm is delayed but much more intense and their partners notice that they 'last longer'.
G:
After circumcision the glans increases in girth, since it is no longer constricted by the prepuce, and the margins of the base of the glans become more prominent. In the uncircumcised man the rolled back foreskin masks the margins of the glans hence circumcision makes these parts more prominent during intercourse. The circumcised penis thus makes better contact with the vagina increasing stimulation and pleasure for both partners.

Now lastly, health and hygiene reasons.
As WK so eloquently put it, people can just learn how to use soap and have a bath.
We're taking about human beings here, what you just said is no different than from doctors telling us to:
Eat 5 portions of fruit and veg, do not smoke, drink water.
We don't do it.

Hell, more on a more recent example, have you heard the adverts from national health departments in regards to Swine flu?
When you think about it, it's ridiculous that the government has to spend money to make radio ads to tell grown ups that we need to:
- Wash our hands
- Sneeze into tissues and throw away
- When experience symptoms, stay indoors and monitor.

Simple-ass common sense stuff but we do not do it. A majority of humans aren't hygiene conscious.

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Let me tell you this: if I had a dime for every time I saw someone use the bathroom and not wash their hands (with soap), I'd be a very, very rich man. Weep as you read this next bit: I'm a student at a research institution located within a hospital. These are doctors and biomedical researchers I'm observing. I can only imagine that it's much worse elsewhere.

Hygiene is a very valid reason, and keeping that region clean if you're uncircumcised involved a bit more than just showering every day (from what I've read and heard).

It is, and a very very good point you raised that I didn't realise, was that the care for cleaning around the foreskin is typically shown from father to son, so if your dad, granddad and great grand peeps never had to deal with that as part of their daily routine, it becomes way difficult to correctly demonstrate to your child when they point and go:
'Daddy, where's your foreskin?
To quote from the article:

Those who argue that soap and water are all that is required for penile hygiene and that circumcision is quite unjustified are ignoring the evidence that many males forget or ignore this part of their toilet. Parents must show the boy how to retract his prepuce at bath time until he is old enough to do this for himself. Due to fear, ignorance or embarrassment in dealing with his 'privates' they often fail to give this instruction; and subsequently to ensure that he keeps this part clean. Circumcision renders the penis permanently clean and avoids the washing and inspection which may draw unnecessary attention to his penis at an early age. As we have already seen, where the hygiene problem is the result of physical or mental handicap then circumcision becomes not just optional but highly desirable.

Just to refer to what they meant on the handicap issue...

Severely physically handicapped males may be unable to wash their own genital area, while the mentally handicapped may be incapable of learning and appreciating the need to do so daily. It is therefore desirable to relieve them of this problem, and the resulting risk of serious infection, by performing a complete circumcision.

You can read the rest on that section in the article itself.

And so on.
I cheekily asked you WK (though this was for all guys)

Originally Posted by Mystique

And hygiene... *shudders*
You'd think common sense would apply, but I can ask this question to you guys, how do you clean your penises?
When you finish urinating do you use a tissue to wipe, similar to how females do?
If you need to take a leak in the street, the droplets of urine, how do you clean that off from around your foreskin area?
Or do you just tuck it back in and it stains the underwear until you go for a shower?
And even then, I hear this sometimes, not all guys shower everyday even.
(And then to think of receiving oral...) x.x

The reason being to really, and truly be straight with yourself and as men typically, how many of you seriously clean up thoroughly every single time you urinate or wash your hands after.
Living with boys in a shared apartment, let's just say makes me well paranoid to touch the handle of the toilet, because that's "indirect penis touching" if I have to put it so cutely.

Common sense and good hygiene aren't practiced by a lot.
For an area as sensitive as this which has both the function for sex and getting rid of waste, it's definitely a serious matter that parents would take into consideration in terms of less infection and general maintenance for their sons.

Yoshi.
I think I've just about said all I can say on an 'official' level as to why circumcision may be so widespread.
To me, it's a 'meh' case simply cause as I said, my parents and relatives all believe in it and had it done to all my male relatives and for the reasons I've heard from my parents as to why they decided to pierce my ears and circumcised my brothers as babies (yep, i asked them too as a kid), I don't see the overly big deal about it.
I'll finish on a slightly personal note.

My ethnicity is West African and growing up in London among other ethnic minorities a majority of my male friends in that sense are circumcised.
(Well those who weren't too shy to kick my ass for asking, lol)
Let's just say, there are a hell of a lot of cocky-assed black guys out there who are having a damn good time who really, heh, aren't lamenting about being circumcised but rather boasting about their staying power and being able to give a girl a good time.
(Yes, guys can boast just for boasting's sake)
But many are proud of their dicks and make the best of it regardless, rather than thinking:
"Oh my gosh! I was mutilated as a child!!!" x.x

As the saying goes:
It's not the size, or foreskin that counts, but the magic in the stick

[LeoXiao]

I don't think circumcision is a problem, as it doesn't cause any harm to the child, at least boys. As evidenced, some men are proud of their modified dicks and that's even less of a reason to be against the practice.

I'm not circumcised, but I probably wouldn't care if I was. It's not a big deal.

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

do I really want to put my child through that extra maintenance, in a procedure that I can't help with because I've never had to deal with it?

So I'm still undecided, and I'll probably end up deferring to my non-Jewish fiancee for her opinion.

It's you and your partner's decision but I'm telling you, unless there's some specific medical reason, the 'extra maintainence' is BS. Tell him to shower often and that's all you need

[denice25]

haha!! this thread is awesome!

[Irenicus]

Hello Ledgem! It's been a while. Although I have to admit this is quite a strange place to say hello.

Originally Posted by Mystique

I cheekily asked you WK (though this was for all guys)
[snip...pun *not* intended]

Well, since it was for all guys...

I use tissue or clean toilet paper every time in the bathroom, and take care to clean it during shower. But I've always thought I was *weird,* as in OCD, am I right in the head weird, for having the compulsion. I just can't stand the sensation walking around with a, erm, "moist" downstairs. Since I'm not the type to go do the manly talk thing with other guys, I really really don't know how common this is or if every other guy just let it not bother them. Or, well, there's the confidence issue: am I the only person in the world who experiences this problem? Is there anything wrong with me/my genital? Etc. I honestly didn't think this was commonly considered until you mention it, so, err, thanks?



On the issue: I can't provide any well-argued position really, but as a 19 years old let me tell you that I am *extremely* uncomfortable with the idea of sharp objects cutting me down there. Baby circumcision or medical operations aside, those guys who do it for fashion are fucking nuts.

[Alchemist007]

Sounds like OCD, but at least its better than worse for you

[WanderingKnight]

@Mystique

What I see for most of the reasons you've given for circumcision and hygiene is that people don't do it.

Personally, I believe parents who don't teach their kids how to wash their penis are idiots. Especially if those parents want to completely avoid the responsibility by not letting him choose whether to keep his foreskin or not. And of course, people who don't wash themselves are just dirty bastards. As I said before, your armpits get just as dirty, and if they don't wash them I guess they enjoy smelling like ass? If they want to avoid the responsibility of having to look after themselves, then they can choose to get circumcised whenever they want, when they're old enough to understand the risks and benefits of a circumcision.

On the topic of possible complications arising from keeping the foreskin, I personally suffered from frenulum breve, something about 5% of uncircumcised men get. However, the way to fix it is by a very simple procedure that leaves no scars and, though it can be scary when you first found out that you've torn your frenulum, it's really nothing to be worried about--speaking as someone who has gone through the scary experience, and who has got the procedure done.

But many are proud of their dicks and make the best of it regardless, rather than thinking:
"Oh my gosh! I was mutilated as a child!!!" x.x

Whatever they think now doesn't really matter. They should be able to decide for themselves when they're older. Not their parents. What if they *wanted* to keep their foreskin?

[Guardian Enzo]

The OP here asked a question he already knew the answer to - the answer he wanted to hear. So what's the point? Certainly not to enlighten himself or anyone else. Seems to me it was to ridicule anyone he disagreed with.

[Jazzrat]

Originally Posted by Narona

How so? I mean, no one will go look at it aside from the ones who will see them nude. That doesn't include a lot of people.

So the real question is, do the japanese girls really care about it?

Public bathing?
I think they are more accustomed to seeing each other nude compare to other country.

[Shinoto]

How to sum it up

The lies/Reasons they hide behind

-Uncut = Well, its just some out dated culture thing they do. I mean, its not like there is any proven benefit. So its completely unnecessary

-Cut=Well, its been proven to help with hygiene a bit and its like its not a bad thing either. Also does make it look a bit nicer while flaccid


The Truth/What they really mean

-Men turn into really petty whiners once their dicks are involved Its different therefore I must question and ridicule it

[Alchemist007]

There's plenty who said they're indifferent, you female!

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

@Mystique

What I see for most of the reasons you've given for circumcision and hygiene is that people don't do it.

That's it.
That's sealed it.

My role is done, I've given enough evidence over 3 posts in this thread for people to make up their own minds for a "for or against" side, that was my main concern on this note about circumcision.
As long as everyone could read, see both sides and learn and educate themselves and then make their own thoughts, then I'm cool.
I'm not trying to convince you even to change your mind, you're entitled to your beliefs, but you don't even see the reasoning and acceptance from the other side of the coin.

The fact that there are parents who don't teach their kids how to wash the foreskin or are knowledgeable in penile hygiene (as is the official term) aren't necessarily idiots. Some are, some aren't.
Like Ledgem said, many won't even have the knowledge and go under the 'it worked for me, so it's cool' thought, but nonetheless it happens.
Yes humans are stupid and not so clean and make common errors, I brought all of that to light in order to counter your 'just use a soap and take a bath'.
If only life was that simple.

At this point I think I've argued from most sides.
Free will issue?
I am a kid who had their 'free will' taken away, if I had to pierce my ears now, alike Narona, I'd probably not do it.
But it's a part of me, I like wearing earrings and think them pretty.

Whatever they think now doesn't really matter. They should be able to decide for themselves when they're older. Not their parents. What if they *wanted* to keep their foreskin?

How do you know?
How-do-you-know?

Why in God's name are you speculating and lamenting for people who are more or less writing in this thread to you in english
'I'm circumcised.... yeah, maybe it'd have been nice to decide but it's done and doesn't effect me, I don't see the big deal out it, meh.'
The past is the past and cannot be changed and has been proven and said many a time in this thread, it gives no adverse negative effects, it's a case closed.
Nothing to see here, move on already please. :\

You've just ignored that, I've said the same thing from someone as a girl who had their "free will" taken away,
I'm telling you, we grow up with this, its part of us, it's natural, we live life with it, it's what we know, we trust our parents to make decisions for us as babies in the hope that it'll benefit us.

The only 'bad thing' circumcision wise in a long term effect side, is that the guys aren't as sensitive with the foreskin.
The benefits and lifestyle with it?
I refer back to my mini novella above, they're all possible reasons why people would consider circumcision, not be against it. xD

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

The OP here asked a question he already knew the answer to - the answer he wanted to hear. So what's the point? Certainly not to enlighten himself or anyone else. Seems to me it was to ridicule anyone he disagreed with.

Thus I bow out.
Time to get on with my life, as much as I'm tempted to hang in here, I may reply on a funny note if i see some interesting posts, but done trying to explain now.

(All this effort and hell, I'm a woman) xD

[Alchemist007]

Oh in that case, ALL POINTS REJECTED.

Spoiler:

The circumcised penis thus makes better contact with the vagina increasing stimulation and pleasure for both partners.

I find this point interesting because the P&T video said that the uncirc'd increased pleasure for the female as well (for that particular couple at least, since they both had the circ and uncirc experience I think it's a legit point from both sides).

[Jazzrat]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

Oh in that case, ALL POINTS REJECTED.



I find this point interesting because the P&T video said that the uncirc'd increased pleasure for the female as well (for that particular couple at least, since they both had the circ and uncirc experience I think it's a legit point from both sides).

A single case doesnt justified a statement. Looking around the web, there's a fair number from both camp that claim each are better with even cases of men who circumcised late in their life and report significant better result.

It's impossible to give a generalized statement on this issue without taking into context of the people and culture around this.

In the end, it just boils down to, what does your women prefer ? :P and are you willing to make the cut for her?