Learning Japanese

[Zakoo]

I think if you need a good application to learn hiragana and katakana, there's somebody called Anh Minh in this board that has in his sig a good application that I used to learn.

Pm him to have it, you can found his post in the news story thread I think.

[Zakoo]

Huh I need help for something please.

ﾏﾙｾｲﾕは大きな町で；大学はつもあります

So my book tells me tsumo means "even" like "there's even 3 university" though online translation gives me the word "none".

So in the end it means what? There's a grammatical rules behind it?

[soka]

You are missing the cardinal number in that sentence, so for there are even 3 universities it should be:

マルセイユは大きな町で、大学が三つもあります

If you want to say there are no universities using も, you have to negate あります

マルセイユには大学が一つもありません

[Zakoo]

Huh yes indeed, it was three university, first time writing japenense on a computer and the passage to kanji messed up there.

So in the end tsumo means even?

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Zakoo

Huh yes indeed, it was three university, first time writing japenense on a computer and the passage to kanji messed up there.

So in the end tsumo means even?

You're parsing it wrong.

三つ means "three [things]"

も is the "even" particle. It's often used to indicate that an amount is a lot, or more than expected. In this case it's emphasizing that three universities is a lot for a single town.

Another example of the も particle being used like this is when describing something expensive: この鞄、５万円もしますよ。 = This bag costs a whole 50,000 yen!

[Zakoo]

Ohh! Okay, thanks a lot I understood, it was indeed in the same lesson as the words for counting ( hitori futari etc) , well I guess I will have to learn those.

Thanks to you two.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Zakoo

Ohh! Okay, thanks a lot I understood, it was indeed in the same lesson as the words for counting ( hitori futari etc) , well I guess I will have to learn those.

Thanks to you two.

And the door to eternal hell has officially been opened.
Good luck

[NeoChan]

A university at our city is offering free Japanese language learning course and I'm kinda planning to join, but it might be diffucult...

[Magin]

Well, learning any language other than your native can be difficult, especially if you're not constantly exposed to it (which is my biggest reason why I've been lax on my own studies... about the only good fansubs do is add vocab but that's it... ). It's all up to how much you want to learn. Besides, it's free, so you really haven't got anything to lose

[RandomGuy]

While good instructors and course material count for something, the most important factor is motivation and access to learning materials. If you're motivated, you're going to seek out media in the language, find native speakers to practice with, and just generally keep working until you've reached a level of ability you're happy with. It takes some doing, but as long as the drive is there...

[Alchemist007]

The best feeling is knowing how much you've learned. I've got some material I didn't know at all, and going back and knowing 30% more, 50% more material than a few months ago is a reassurance.

[xxanimefan4_ever]

I never drilled myself to learn how to write hirgana... and most definitely not for katakana.
I learned the stroke order of course but anyways I just focused on reading it. and as of now i have no prboelm writing because i've read so much japanese that i know how to write. obviously the same can't be said for kanji but technically you don't need to know how to write it and still be able to read quite a bit. the downside would be like one radical is different b.t. 2 kanji so you can't tell which it is. But anyways I recommend RTK for kanji. After that do kakitori! which is what japnaese people do.

So I just would advise people to not leran how to write hiragna/katana... as far as drilling yourself. do learn stroke order but most importantly, learn how to read it. to be honest there's no need for you to write it right? it's just a waste of time. the time that you took to drill/write direct from memorization could have been used on reading hirgana.... which would make you aid in reading hirgana faster. once you read enough you'll remembe rhow to write it from memory eventually.... like instead of wasting hours of your life writing drill practice.

anyways somebody on chiebukuro asked about learning to write hanguel. and i answered person saying uh.. no . there's no damn point unless you have to write hanguel for some reason like if you were living in korea.
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp...il/q1170947946
I got picked best answer

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by xxanimefan4_ever

I never drilled myself to learn how to write hirgana... and most definitely not for katakana.
I learned the stroke order of course but anyways I just focused on reading it. and as of now i have no prboelm writing because i've read so much japanese that i know how to write. obviously the same can't be said for kanji but technically you don't need to know how to write it and still be able to read quite a bit. the downside would be like one radical is different b.t. 2 kanji so you can't tell which it is. But anyways I recommend RTK for kanji. After that do kakitori! which is what japnaese people do.

So I just would advise people to not leran how to write hiragna/katana... as far as drilling yourself. do learn stroke order but most importantly, learn how to read it. to be honest there's no need for you to write it right? it's just a waste of time. the time that you took to drill/write direct from memorization could have been used on reading hirgana.... which would make you aid in reading hirgana faster. once you read enough you'll remembe rhow to write it from memory eventually.... like instead of wasting hours of your life writing drill practice.

Writing exercises a memory muscle in your brain which is stronger for most people than just looking at something. It is vital, otherwise I doubt the natives would spend the entire 6 years of elementary school having writing drills to memorise the first 1000 kanji

I'd disagree with this and say that especially westerners should try to learn all four skills of a language as best as possible. When it comes to nitpicky radicals in kanji, writing each one and linking that to the meaning of your native language will help a lot when it comes for language exams.

Speaking from personal experience, reading kanji in context is okay but on its own, it gets blurry cause I'm not sure which radical meant what when writing it would have helped by also naturally remembering the stroke count and shape by hand

PPS:
If you plan to live in Japan, writing goes a long way, especially at legal or financial institutions...

[Alchemist007]

It depends on what your goals are. Just learning to read can be enough for someone who just wants to read some manga or something. Obviously those living in Japan would have to learn their own means of communication in every way.

[Shinji01]

Originally Posted by Mystique

PPS:
If you plan to live in Japan, writing goes a long way, especially at legal or financial institutions...

Soooooo true.

I have so many non Japanese friends that speak perfect Japanese, and can totally communicate, but they can't read very well, or write well enough, so they end up having to have a native accompany them to the bank, city office etc.

As a totally bilingual, I never noticed how inconvenient this was until I had to help my friends with this stuff.

Seriously, you won't be able to do anything by yourself since it is very rare for any institution to have a English speaking staff.

So if you plan to live in Japan, you definitely should pay attention to reading and writing, not just verba, communication.

[xxanimefan4_ever]

Originally Posted by Mystique

Writing exercises a memory muscle in your brain which is stronger for most people than just looking at something. It is vital, otherwise I doubt the natives would spend the entire 6 years of elementary school having writing drills to memorise the first 1000 kanji

I'd disagree with this and say that especially westerners should try to learn all four skills of a language as best as possible. When it comes to nitpicky radicals in kanji, writing each one and linking that to the meaning of your native language will help a lot when it comes for language exams.

Speaking from personal experience, reading kanji in context is okay but on its own, it gets blurry cause I'm not sure which radical meant what when writing it would have helped by also naturally remembering the stroke count and shape by hand

PPS:
If you plan to live in Japan, writing goes a long way, especially at legal or financial institutions...

first of all I don't have any plans to live in japan and anyone knows that being able to write in Japanese is important and I have no plans taking any exams. it just seems like you're misunderstanding post or you do understand but for some reason you want to twist my words. I guess my post is more geared toward people that are just learning japanese on their own like people reading this thread.

secondly I'm very proficient in writing in japanese, hirgana, katakana (2000+) and the kanji because I did RTK and I changed my anki deck to kakitori along the way. It just sounds like you're making assumptions like I can't write japanese.

what i'm saying is I never drilled myself to write hiragna/katakana from direct memory ( hard core memorization). I just read a lot of japanese and then I was able to write hiragana/katakana from reading so much. All I did was learn the stroke order but I never drilled myself for hours trying to write hirgana/katakna direct from memory. in the overall picture, I didn't waste my time drilling hirgana/katakana. to me drilling is so stupid. you're better off reading the hirgana/katakana unless there's some reason where you have to write it (if you moved to japan or whatever). because if you read it enough, in the long run you'll be able to read really fast and be able to write it minus the stupid drilling.

I'm just giving a suggestion so people don't waste their time trying to drilling/memorization when they don't have to if they are in my type of situation just learning it and not in some situation where they have to be able to write hirgana/katakna right away. you're so much better off just reading it till you can read it ie song lyrics instead of boring drilling. that's all i'm sayin' jeez.

Originally Posted by Mystique

Writing exercises a memory muscle in your brain which is stronger for most people than just looking at something. It is vital, otherwise I doubt the natives would spend the entire 6 years of elementary school having writing drills to memorise the first 1000 kanji
.

and why does that make it the best way?
lol.... lots of Japanese are like omg I forgot to write kanji ever since cellphones/ I can't write kanji w.o. me cellphone lolllllllllz. I gues there are people there are still okay but some people are like that.
Lot of people think the japanese education system like how they teach kanji is flawed. I think it's flawed too. like RTK worked for me.

[Shinji01]

Originally Posted by xxanimefan4_ever

first of all I don't have any plans to live in japan and anyone knows that being able to write in Japanese is important and I have no plans taking any exams. it just seems like you're misunderstanding post or you do understand but for some reason you want to twist my words. I guess my post is more geared toward people that are just learning japanese on their own like people reading this thread.

secondly I'm very proficient in writing in japanese, hirgana, katakana (2000+) and the kanji because I did RTK and I changed my anki deck to kakitori along the way. It just sounds like you're making assumptions like I can't write japanese.

what i'm saying is I never drilled myself to write hiragna/katakana from direct memory ( hard core memorization). I just read a lot of japanese and then I was able to write hiragana/katakana from reading so much. All I did was learn the stroke order but I never drilled myself for hours trying to write hirgana/katakna direct from memory. in the overall picture, I didn't waste my time drilling hirgana/katakana. to me drilling is so stupid. you're better off reading the hirgana/katakana unless there's some reason where you have to write it (if you moved to japan or whatever). because if you read it enough, in the long run you'll be able to read really fast and be able to write it minus the stupid drilling.

I'm just giving a suggestion so people don't waste their time trying to drilling/memorization when they don't have to if they are in my type of situation just learning it and not in some situation where they have to be able to write hirgana/katakna right away. you're so much better off just reading it till you can read it ie song lyrics instead of boring drilling. that's all i'm sayin' jeez.


and why does that make it the best way?
lol.... lots of Japanese are like omg I forgot to write kanji ever since cellphones/ I can't write kanji w.o. me cellphone lolllllllllz. I gues there are people there are still okay but some people are like that.
Lot of people think the japanese education system like how they teach kanji is flawed. I think it's flawed too. like RTK worked for me.

Kakitori is memorization, so I think you two actually share the same point of view.

I do agree though that people should concentrate on the areas that they need most instead of trying to do all facets of the language at the same time.

I grew up being able to speak japanese, and read it, but not write it until I moved back to Japan and enrolled in the local schools.

I reached my kanji peak during school, but after I graduated and started using more PC than pen and paper, I forgot my kanji again.

But i think this is the same as any other subject you study at school.
You won't remember how to solve highschool level maths when you are 35, but what matters is that you studied it once, so you can draw upon it later if necessary.

[Yu Ominae]

Having plans to study in Japan for the Japanese language program.

Right now I plan to look at Kansai Gaidai, Waseda, Keio, Ritsumeikan and perhaps ICU and Sophia since my Japanese political science teacher said that they have "excellent" Japanese language programs. I'll go and look at them carefully when I can...

[theAlphaDuck]

Must really start the whole learning Japanese thing some time soon.

I think I'm going to learn the writing by writing stuff in English but with Japanese letters.

That and I will probably download Rosetta stone again - that was quite good actually. (recommend)

But I need to learn some Japanese before I go back there, It got kinda boring at times seeing as practically NO ONE speaks any English.

[Alchemist007]

You're going to want to take a more serious approach if you want to actually learn the language. Unless all you intend to do is use a few words for travel purposes, people do that all the time. But if you're talking about investing time and effort, you have to commit. Rosetta Stone is nice for learning a few words and sentences (to travel by) but it's no substitute for proper learning. You've got 175 previous pages in this thread, try looking at a few suggestions for beginners (not all 175 mind you, there lots of repeating things since there's people asking these types of things all the time).