(L) Girls und Panzer

[Ithekro]

What they need is a light tank with a good gun.

[Myssa Rei]

How about the T-50 series? Granted I can't speak for how it performed in real life (as production was discontinued because the T-34 was MUCH more flexible), but the thing is a hilariously dangerous as a scout tank in World of Tanks, especially its T-50-2 variant.

[Ithekro]

Or maybe if they want to keep it a Japanese tank, a Type 5 Ke-Ho light tank? Only one was built.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

That seems decent.

[Marina2]

If Anko team get a new tank (maybe one of VK prototype tank or Tiger or Panther), they can give their Panzer 4 (+ upgrade gun to L/48) to duck team.

[arkhangelsk]

Why not give Volleyball team a M18 Hellcat? They did make one with a roof (and I suspect the roof kit would be quite popular in Senshado).

As the fastest tank or tank destroyer of WWII, it should maximize their strengths, and the 76mm is powerful enough to give them a good chance against most tanks. The thin armor ... well they are used to it and 3 times the armor won't help against a Panther or Tiger or even a T-34 anyway.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Only if they keep going against forces that are using all late war equipment.

Which means they would have trouble in the Finals right when everyone needs to be at their best. As I said, they really just can't keep doing what they did in Ep12.

[LoweGear]

A Hellcat is nice, but until we can sort out the issue with whether the roofkit is viable or not, my best suggestion for the Volleyball team is the M24 Chaffee. It has firepower nearly similar to the M3 Lee while being faster, smaller and having a turret. And unlike the Type 89, the Chaffee was designed for the light recon/harassment role that the Volleyball team are so good at.

[rocket]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Only if they keep going against forces that are using all late war equipment. It is reasonable to assume most schools use early to mid war tanks. Of which only the pre-war Type 89 has real issues.

See that's the one part of this setup which makes no sense to me...

Why would anybody invest in may weaker early war tanks? It makes much more sense to invest in heavies and wait a few year if you don't have enough.

They should have gone with a point balancing system like all real wargames instead of this false economy thing...

[Ithekro]

The Japanese based team was shown to be using Type 97 medium tanks.

Anzio was using mostly 1940 built tanks, self propelled guns, and three tankettes.

It seems to be more that schools use more common tanks than better tanks.

Pravda has a mix of T-34/76 and T-34/85 tanks for the most part. Saunders had almost entirely M4 Shermans with 75mm cannons. Only Black Forest Peak seemed to have set themselves up with almost all late war tanks and tank destroyers. The flashback gives the impression that they use to run with mid-war tanks until Pravda beat them. They seemed to run with more Panzer IIIs, but now only have one as a scout and have filled up on Panthers and Jadgpanzer IVs.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by rocket

See that's the one part of this setup which makes no sense to me...

Why would anybody invest in may weaker early war tanks? It makes much more sense to invest in heavies and wait a few year if you don't have enough.

They should have gone with a point balancing system like all real wargames instead of this false economy thing...

Because there aren't enough higher "tier" tanks to go around. The backstories imply that recreations are very few and far between, which means for the most part the tanks used in Senshado are mostly surplus vehicles dating back from their original manufacturing dates. This means that most of the time, the vehicles that would be available for Senshado would be cheap and numerous vehicles, like tankettes and light tanks, along with popular models like the M4 Sherman and the T-34. It's essentially a first-come first-serve acquisition system, where if you come across that shiny Maus first, then you get to keep it until you sell it, which I don't think Kuromomine would want to do.

Powerful heavy tanks would be very rare commodities in Senshado due to their limited numbers, being very expensive and difficult to acquire. It does kinda imply that Kuromomine's heavy arsenal is a combination of their prestige plus luck allowing them to purchase them.

[arkhangelsk]

That's the big reason I really don't like this official explanation. It is canonically consistent, more so than the "mainly replica" theory, but it reeks very much of the old schools using "tradition" as a shield to preserve their superiority just because they were first and disproportionately hogged the good tanks. I can't see everyone else just swallowing it down. Some people pass it off as production economy, but one would think at least upstart newcomers would pay a premium rather than accept the old schools hogging all the tanks. And some suggest it is a "Japan-only" thing, which I suppose means they join me in disliking this explanation.

Anyway, IMHO this does not fully explain all those tankettes. Though tankettes are cheap and fairly common, they are mostly pre-war or early war production and due to the mobilization would actually be less common than mid-war medium tanks. If we assume the schools grab what is available, we'll be seeing mostly mid-war, medium tanks. This bias towards early war is thus puzzling.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Anyway, IMHO this does not fully explain all those tankettes. Though tankettes are cheap and fairly common, they are mostly pre-war or early war production and due to the mobilization would actually be less common than mid-war medium tanks. If we assume the schools grab what is available, we'll be seeing mostly mid-war, medium tanks. This bias towards early war is thus puzzling.

We still don't quite know what WW2 was like. Furthermore, it so happens that even if we're talking about actual war, early war tanks are those that survived more even in reality.

[Helius]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

We still don't quite know what WW2 was like. Furthermore, it so happens that even if we're talking about actual war, early war tanks are those that survived more even in reality.

Well it goes both ways. Since the pre-war tanks were rendered obsolete, it's true they would've been phsaed out of service and "survived" the war.

On the other hand wartime needs probably resulted in most, if not all, of those tanks broken down for scraps so wartime models were more likely to have been preserved for their historical significance.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by rocket

See that's the one part of this setup which makes no sense to me...

Why would anybody invest in may weaker early war tanks? It makes much more sense to invest in heavies and wait a few year if you don't have enough.

They should have gone with a point balancing system like all real wargames instead of this false economy thing...

My personal theory is that in the past, most schools had a "ladies'" agreement between them to use mostly early tanks instead of going into an arms race. They are lighter and cheaper to operate, so for any given budget you can afford more of them and more students could have participated in Senshado, it also reduces the difference between the "big tank" nations and the others, so matches are more competitive and based on skill and tactics.

[Ithekro]

And yet, Going Big didn't save Black Forest Peak from defeat against Ooaria. The game is still "kill the flag tank".

[Gravitas Free Zone]

It could be said that later Cold War tanks all started to look the same, which is why WWII made more sense.

[rocket]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

That's the big reason I really don't like this official explanation. It is canonically consistent, more so than the "mainly replica" theory, but it reeks very much of the old schools using "tradition" as a shield to preserve their superiority just because they were first and disproportionately hogged the good tanks. I can't see everyone else just swallowing it down.

Exactly. It's a vicious cycle and would mean that only the schools with heavy tanks would every win and be able to afford more heavy tanks.

Part of me still thinks there must be some kind of point/balance system ... hopefully once we see the video game we'll get some rational retcon! (^_^);;;

[Ithekro]

It is suggested that the flag tank is picked by the judges, so that could alter how one plays a match.

Flag tanks in show or in manga:

Saunders:
M4 Sherman 76mm
(Ooarai has it on their Panzer 38(t))

Anzio: (manga)
Fiat M13/40
(Ooarai has it on their StuG III)

Pravda:
T-34/76
(Ooarai has it on their Type 89)

Black Forest Peak:
Tiger I
(Ooarai has it on their Panzer IV)

[Marina2]

@Ithekro

Are you saying that it's completly coincidental that Miho's tank and Maho's tank are flag tank in the final round?

Sound hard to believe.........but again, this is anime.

[Sumeragi]