(L) Ergo Proxy

[9mmx19]

Hmm watched to 14. Went a little Evangelion-style crazy for a while there. I dunno about all that - I want shallower simpler story haha But the series just looks so good I cant just stop... damn.

[TougeSil80]

Spoiler for Ep.23:

Wow, what a confusing episode. What's the "gods" that Ergo Proxy was talking about? So if the Proxies completed the mission that was given to then, does that mean that they are no longer useful? Is that why Ergo Proxy trys to destroy all the domes and all humans so he can start the process all over again? And what did Dedalus say about the Armrita cells? Are Proxies afraid of sunlight? It looks like it, cuz when the Monado Real fly past the clouds, she disintergrated like vampire seeing sunlight. But then does that mean that Vincent will also die once he sees sunlight? This ending is pretty confusing, might have to wait for a good sub for this.

[freakabcd]

Originally Posted by physics223

You can generalize things too, you know.

That's what I wondered too, lommm. Irregardless is redundancy itself. That's not even repeating stuff, but that was redundant nevertheless.

I really thought that making statements about other anime in relation to Ergo Proxy was encompassed under the thread title 'Ergo Proxy'. Has that changed?

Yes, it is certainly allowed. But you overdo it when you mention that *other anime* (I won't even name it ) in almost every single post you make!

MrProphet has already mentioned(in this post: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=1053) why your method of comparison seems to annoy many here.

[MrProphet]

Originally Posted by TougeSil80

Spoiler for Ep.23:

Wow, what a confusing episode. What's the "gods" that Ergo Proxy was talking about?

Spoiler:

They are the original humans who have created the Proxies and left. They are seen returning to the planet at the very end.

Spoiler:

So if the Proxies completed the mission that was given to then, does that mean that they are no longer useful?

Spoiler:

Yes. At the end of their mission, entrusted to them by the Creators, they were supposed to perish in the Pulse of Awekening.

Spoiler:

Is that why Ergo Proxy trys to destroy all the domes and all humans so he can start the process all over again?

Spoiler:

No, that's not it.

Proxy One did not want to die in the Pulse of Awekening and he felt that the Creators were evil because of this. So he decided to destroy their creation and sent Ergo Proxy as the Agent of Death.

Spoiler:

And what did Dedalus say about the Armrita cells? Are Proxies afraid of sunlight? It looks like it, cuz when the Monado Real fly past the clouds, she disintergrated like vampire seeing sunlight. But then does that mean that Vincent will also die once he sees sunlight? This ending is pretty confusing, might have to wait for a good sub for this.

Spoiler:

According to Daedalus, the Proxies will not surive the sunlight returning to the planet. How that works exactly - I don't know. Something about Amrita cells.

However, Monad did say that she and Vincent will be able to live together, so I have no idea how that is tied together.

[Deacon Blues]

Originally Posted by MrProphet

The difference between GITS and Ergo Proxy is that GITS is extremely straight-forward. Convoluted and hard to follow - yes. But straight-forward nonetheless.

Ergo Proxy, in comparision, is very confusing until the very end. Until we see the complete picture, until we finally learn the nature of Ergo Proxy's mission and its genesis, we are left grasping for straws.

Um... no? GiTs is not entirely straightforward at all. There are still many people who have no idea what the hell happened at the end of 2nd GIG thanks to the sheer riddles that came about between a conversation in an episode between Batou and Gohda...

[MrProphet]

When I say "GITS", I am talking about the feature film. 2nd Gig is 2nd Gig.

[Deacon Blues]

You can't compare a movie to a series in those terms. That's like comparing apples to oranges.

[MrProphet]

I am not comparing "a movie to a series in those terms".

I am comparing a plot of one artwork to a plot of another. Taking into consideration that the plot of a series evolves differently due to longer running time is besides the point.

The point is that the basic structure of the main plot and the tools which the creator uses to reveal the main plot can be compared and are not contingent upon the running time, budget, time taken to create the work or other pecularities of a TV series.

It's the "fabula" - the groundwork, the outline of an artwork. A fabula is not contingent upon the way in which it will be ultimately expressed, either as a 2-hour movie or a 26-episode series, thus the fabulae of Ergo Proxy and Ghost in the Shell can be compared. That's the point I was trying to make.

[Seyluun]

Watched ep 16. I was really surprised that this show can do comedy, and do it better than most specialized show. The various innovations and changes of pace of the last eps hooked me real good.

[aixchel]

One thing the ending really cleared up for me is the MCQ episode

Spoiler:

We now know it was Proxy 1 tapping into their collective. I was really having a hard time with explaining it either as a dream or a hallucination until then.

[Goras]

Originally Posted by MrProphet

I like the idea that Donov is human symbiote of the Romdeau proxy, yet there is a problem here.

It seems like ever Dome City has its own proxy. Yet, both Monad and Ergo came from Mosque, which is contrary to one dome, one proxy policy.

Additionally, the twins rule is also suspect. Monad-Ergo and Senekis-Kazukis certainly support the idea that all proxies have an "evil twin", so to speak, yet the giant and Ophelia were alone. Ophelia didn't even have its human symbiote and just created illusions.

So, I just want to point out that you shouldn't draw conclusions from events. Even if there is a minimal statistical evidence to suggest that an event is a rule (like one proxy per dome or the duality rule or the symbiote rule), still, over evidence will come about to show that it is not in fact a rule and maybe just limited to several proxies.

So far we had.

1) Those exhibiting duality: Monad, Ergo, Senekis, Kazukis.
2) Those who have a human symbiote: Ergo, Kazukis, Senekis, Proxy One (Donov ?), Monad (Daedalus? Raul? Real?).
3) Those who control their dome: Giant, Ophelia, Kazukis, Senekis, Monad, Proxy One (?)

As you see, each possible rule has its exceptions. The giant didn't have a "twin proxy". Ophelia didn't have a human symbiote. Ergo doesn't seem to have a dome of its own... Unless he shared one with Monad, which would countermand the Senekis-Kazukis evidence who both lived in separate domes.

So, lets wait until the end until we jump to conclusions.

I watched till ep 17 and I have some questions:

Spoiler:

Why does monad has something to do with real or raul? was there a reference to that in the previous eps?

[lommm]

Originally Posted by Goras

I watched till ep 17 and I have some questions:

Spoiler:

Why does monad has something to do with real or raul? was there a reference to that in the previous eps?

Spoiler:

Daedelus kept Monad's body in stasis after Ergo(probably while the Vincent side of him was unaware) "killed her" (he almost killed her, so i guess beat the living daylights out of her is better)

basically, Daedelus is obsessed with Monad... you will see why (at least to a certain extent) in the remaining episodes

SO... Monad has something to do with Raul in that Raul and Daedelus work together/compete with each other...

and Monad has something to do with Real (actually Re-l) in that:
don't click if you want to learn in the later episodes instead

Spoiler:

Re-l is an incomplete copy of Monad that Daedelus made

[Goras]

Oh, didn't notice monad was female.

[lommm]

Originally Posted by Goras

Oh, didn't notice monad was female.

don't worry man, i didn't either... until the later episodes when we learn about the various forms of Monad

[aixchel]

Originally Posted by lommm

Spoiler:

Daedelus kept Monad's body in stasis after Ergo(probably while the Vincent side of him was unaware) "killed her" (he almost killed her, so i guess beat the living daylights out of her is better)

basically, Daedelus is obsessed with Monad... you will see why (at least to a certain extent) in the remaining episodes

SO... Monad has something to do with Raul in that Raul and Daedelus work together/compete with each other...

and Monad has something to do with Real (actually Re-l) in that:
don't click if you want to learn in the later episodes instead

Spoiler:

Re-l is an incomplete copy of Monad that Daedelus made

Actually...

Spoiler:

Ergo Proxy killed Monad quite dead about episode 2-3 - the 'lightening' ate away clear through her eye socket.

In a later episode, Daedalus used the power outage to reanimate some of monad's cells, which he then used to make the perfect clone Real (white monad).

I am assuming Daedalus didn't want to kill Monad and that's why he had the incomplete Re-L. But once Ergo had done the deed, he could be as destructive as wanted with Monad's body. Good thing he had Monad and not the giant proxy - he might have looked really funny fawning over the big giant proxy.

I am assuming Re-L was imperfect because Daedalus used some of Donov's cells to create her. That's why she is the Regent's grand daughter.

[netddos]

Watched the whole series finally..

wow at first i was like..wtf...i don't get it at all..

but after reading stuff from here, it ALL makes sense..

jesus this is one DEEP and i mean DEEP anime...

Spoiler:

relationship between the creators and the created....

really plot is very original and narration style was perfectly matched with the kind of atmosphere..

i love how they tied almost everything together...albeit very subtle..it's there if you look more carefully..it's not like EVA where they throw out stuff out of the blue with no answer...

i'm sure they could've reaped more money if they shifted their style.....i appreciate the animators for doing what is best for the audience..

9.5/10......one of THE anime to watch for 2006..period..

[Aniki Meiski]

They can make the show more popular by retuning the show to mainstream audience.
For example:
Binsento Rou no Boukyaku (Amnesia of Vincent Law) - A clumsy mechanic arriving at the AR Control declaring no interest with ordinary fake humans unless they are clones of Monad
Purakusiisama Kazoku - To learn how to be a Proxy, Vincent is sent by Proxy One to Romdeau to learn the ways of the humans
Re-l/Real - Two girls of the same name share a flat in the Romdeau.
etc.

[netddos]

"Purakusiisama Kazoku "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!! LOL that's funny..

[Zappster]

Having seen episode 16 just now I thought it looked awful in places. It really was consistent in its inconsistency. One that definitely needs touching up for the DVD versions. I actually enjoyed it inspite of that horribleness though.

[barnardeep]

Spoiler:

ok why does monad look totally different than the real that was a complete clone of her?