Why not release translations first?

[Obi-Wan]

The Answer is learn Japanese, then fansubbers are null and void.

[koei]

"Adjusting for the raw is very easy, and often not needed at all. 3 cases out of five there I did the above mentioned raw switch didn't require any adjustments at all, two others had "kono banganiwa" cut out - no problem at all.
A couple minutes of timing corrections is nothing compared to 1.5 hours of manual ripping out of hard-sub."

While I agree that adjusting timing to the raw is easy, it's a very tedious task. You'll spend at least an hour re-timing things (that's if you want scenetiming etc..). Also I don't believe that 3 out of 5 raws for a show will fit a single timing script. All raws are different and you will definitely have to do some shifting some where along the line (if you don't scene time then I guess you don't have to do this, but then it'll probably be crap timing anyway). And I don't think most leechers know how to fix it. If they did then they should just become fansubbers


"The thing is, I am impatient enough to dowload that raw as soon as it comes out (regardless of fansub), so it is not a problem at all. And if you release scripts, it does save me the bandwidth, since the raw is already here.
Don't forget - the topic is releasing translations Before, not Instead Of your generic release."


How does releasing scripts save you bandwidth? You're saying downloading a 250mb+ raw + script is better than a 175mb or 233mb of the same episode? If you download the raw yourself it's your problem for wasting your bandwidth, not ours and we're not under any obligation to give out scripts.


If you're so adamant about releasing scripts, why don't lead by example and release translated scripts for everyone to use? You know japanese and tl manga, so why not an episode? And just about any excuse you give for not doing it can be applied to any other translator.

[Tofusensei]

Originally Posted by koei

"Adjusting for the raw is very easy, and often not needed at all. 3 cases out of five there I did the above mentioned raw switch didn't require any adjustments at all, two others had "kono banganiwa" cut out - no problem at all.
A couple minutes of timing corrections is nothing compared to 1.5 hours of manual ripping out of hard-sub."

While I agree that adjusting timing to the raw is easy, it's a very tedious task. You'll spend at least an hour re-timing things (that's if you want scenetiming etc..). Also I don't believe that 3 out of 5 raws for a show will fit a single timing script. All raws are different and you will definitely have to do some shifting some where along the line (if you don't scene time then I guess you don't have to do this, but then it'll probably be crap timing anyway). And I don't think most leechers know how to fix it. If they did then they should just become fansubbers.

Why would you scene-time if it's just for yourself? o_O;

-Tofu

[el]

Originally Posted by Tofusensei

Why would you scene-time if it's just for yourself? o_O;

-Tofu

Because having the subs flash just before or just after the scene is so damn annoying. If I'm watching a softsubbed release that has poor scene timing/timing in general, I extract and fix it for myself, in order for me to be able to enjoy it better.

[Tofusensei]

Originally Posted by erusupaasu

Because having the subs flash just before or just after the scene is so damn annoying. If I'm watching a softsubbed release that has poor scene timing/timing in general, I extract and fix it for myself, in order for me to be able to enjoy it better.

That's borderline neurotic

But to each his own, I think...

If you have that much spare time, I hope you are helping a fansub group...

-Tofu

[Schneizel]

That's borderline neurotic

But to each his own, I think...

If you have that much spare time, I hope you are helping a fansub group...

-Tofu

ellspurs is a timer in multiple groups. ^^;

[Ronbo]

TIME! That’s what it’s all about.

The ability to get any episode out in a timely manner rests entirely on how much time any one member of a fan-sub group has at his or her disposal and is willing to use that time. Fan-subbers have a life too and in this respect often fall behind their releases.

For a series that may only be 12 or 13 episodes long taking 10 days or so per each release only means that the last episode will be released 3 or 4 weeks after a series ends. However for a series that runs 50 to 52 episodes this could run well past being 20 weeks behind in their releases. When any group gets that far behind the chances of that series ever being completed by them is slim to none.

I learned the hard way years ago to never put all your eggs in any one basket!
I used to wait for each episode to be subbed and released by whichever group was doing the best job and only the releases from that group. About half the time it would be dropped for one reason or another and I was never able to watch the last few episodes.
Since then I have started downloading the raws and replacing them as the subbed versions are released. It no longer matters who is subbing it, I retrieve them all and sort them out later.

The releasing of timed scripts first (notice I didn’t say translations) would relieve the pressure felt by many groups in their attempts to stay current with their releases. It also provides us leechers a chance to finish a series should it be dropped for one reason or another.

[ruinevil]

ellspurs timed Tales of Phantasia OVA 4 for #aoi-anime.

Originally Posted by Ronbo

The releasing of timed scripts first (notice I didn’t say translations) would relieve the pressure felt by many groups in their attempts to stay current with their releases. It also provides us leechers a chance to finish a series should it be dropped for one reason or another.

Most groups don't feel any pressure to stay current. If the leechers bother them... they'll just ignore them.

[Schneizel]

Ronbo, that just drags us to back to what someone else said earlier: What if the translator doesn't translate it 50 seconds after it's out on raw to DL?

[SinsI]

Originally Posted by koei

While I agree that adjusting timing to the raw is easy, it's a very tedious task.

Come on, come on, frames don't pop out of nowhere. You find a scene change in Aegisub of original and remember that frame, you find same scene in the raw and adjust by the difference. 2 minutes at worst.

How does releasing scripts save you bandwidth? You're saying downloading a 250mb+ raw + script is better than a 175mb or 233mb of the same episode?

I wouldn't have to download additional 175 mb of encoding.

You know japanese and tl manga, so why not an episode?

They don't have japanese subs in the raws. I can't look up unknown spoken words in the dictionary the way I do kanji.

[Scab]

Okay, sorry to say, but this is just a bad idea. I can think of a number of problems off the top of my head.

Alienate all non-Windows users. There's no working SSA/ASS implementation for other OS's. I guess those people are all screwed?

Cripple typesetting severely. Signs will need to be simplified, titlescreens are out of the question and karaoke will pretty much need to revert back to the old \k and \kf days coupled with super-basic \t() transitions.

Subtitle stealing is made significantly easier for other groups and foreign subbers who can't be arsed to do the job themselves as well as bootleggers and eBay resellers.

Complicate watching for the leecher. It just doesn't get much easier than grabbing the one file you need from the fansubbers themselves. Softsubbing and raw hunting clearly works against simplicity for the "end user".

Doesn't shorten the time between TV broadcast and fansub release significantly. It's translation, timing, editing and quality checking that takes the longest to complete. Simply dropping encoding and possibly typesetting will not result in much of a speed gain.

Does not save bandwidth. Raws are significantly bigger in size than fansubs and unless you've got an incompetent encoder they also look noticeably worse. I fail to see the benefit in watching softsubs on a big raw as opposed to hardsubs in a smaller and cleaner fansub.

Does not let you just use any script on "the best raw". It's pretty much impossible to shift a script to a different raw without breaking scene timing or running into synch problems. And no, synching one scene-timed line to its scene change does not fix all the others, as all lines are not ended at a consistent interval from the scene change. Try for yourself. I guess you may not care about that personally, but I as a subber who put work into it do.

I hope you're not seriously expecting anyone to release their scripts fractionally faster at the cost of these and probably other issues I've overlooked.

[deathbygirl]

hay guyz how do i downloaded animu? i reely don't have patience and i want to watch as soon as japan watches 'cause being a weeaboo is what i'm very good at. i reely don't cares about the process, i just want super fast translations. i don't even know what taeks them so long to make, it's just liek typing and stuff come on. i could translaet in my sleep, gosh lolz! anywayz guys do this for me plz like quick, i need to watch me animu! lolol kthx!!!

[Wade]

Originally Posted by SinsI

Come on, come on, frames don't pop out of nowhere. You find a scene change in Aegisub of original and remember that frame, you find same scene in the raw and adjust by the difference. 2 minutes at worst.

2 min * 300 lines (a very very small script) / 60min/hr = 10 hrs

Have fun, Mr. Masochist.

[Schneizel]

Originally Posted by deathbygirl

hay guyz how do i downloaded animu? i reely don't have patience and i want to watch as soon as japan watches 'cause being a weeaboo is what i'm very good at. i reely don't cares about the process, i just want super fast translations. i don't even know what taeks them so long to make, it's just liek typing and stuff come on. i could translaet in my sleep, gosh lolz! anywayz guys do this for me plz like quick, i need to watch me animu! lolol kthx!!!

Downloading anime is pushing it to the limit. Safety is not guaranteed. Bring your own bandwith. I've only done this once before.

[Eeknay]

Originally Posted by kodachrome

Downloading anime is pushing it to the limit. Safety is not guaranteed. Bring your own bandwith. I've only done this once before.

One does not simply download anime... the raws are guarded by more than just cappers. There is bad encoding that does not sleep, and the great Aska is ever watchful.

[deathbygirl]

Originally Posted by kodachrome

Downloading anime is pushing it to the limit. Safety is not guaranteed. Bring your own bandwith. I've only done this once before.

wowz sounds super hard but everyone i know is liek doing it. i think there called fanbus or something, lolol. anywayz this doesnt answer my question, i need animu and i need it now. not want, NEED! if i dunt get it i think i may have to scream or something... oh btw, i haet bittorrent cauz it sucks, so slow! someone make a betetr thing or just make those http downloads, i heard those are easy and geud. but seriuslee why do people take so long, i mean i just want to watch animu i'm not asking for rocket science!! i hate when people make things specifically not catered to my needs and ease, it's such a bother having to figure stuff out and stuff, you know?! teehee ok anywayz somoene answer my question plez!! thx!!

[SinsI]

Does not let you just use any script on "the best raw". It's pretty much impossible to shift a script to a different raw without breaking scene timing or running into synch problems. And no, synching one scene-timed line to its scene change does not fix all the others, as all lines are not ended at a consistent interval from the change change. Try for yourself. I guess you may not care about that personally, but I as a subber who put work into it do.

Edit: got what he meant. Nitpicking...
Only real problems come from different framerates or skipped frames, and such things are very rare with DTV raws.
Wade, don't joke like that. You adjust all the lines ltogether, and it takes about two minutes. R2 and R1 raws are a little harder to change, 15 minutes or so.

[Schneizel]

wowz sounds super hard but everyone i know is liek doing it. i think there called fanbus or something, lolol. anywayz this doesnt answer my question, i need animu and i need it now. not want, NEED! if i dunt get it i think i may have to scream or something... oh btw, i haet bittorrent cauz it sucks, so slow! someone make a betetr thing or just make those http downloads, i heard those are easy and geud. but seriuslee why do people take so long, i mean i just want to watch animu i'm not asking for rocket science!! i hate when people make things specifically not catered to my needs and ease, it's such a bother having to figure stuff out and stuff, you know?! teehee ok anywayz somoene answer my question plez!! thx!!

[Scab]

Originally Posted by SinsI

If you time the script on by-frame basis, and both raws use the same frames(nothing was cut, nothing was added) than I fail to understand there can that de-synch come from. Adjusting for different beggining and end is all you have to do. And I do know what I'm talking about - I did it more than once. If one scene change happened at the frame 5032 and the next one at the 6943 than in another raw it would happen with 5045 and 6956 respectively, and such timing correction would work perfectly. Only problem might be with different framerates or skipped frames, and such things are very rare with DTV raws.

You can't time "on by-frame basis" seeing as the subtitle formats used in anime fansubbing, namely SSA and ASS, use timecodes and not frame numbers. Again, the interval between when the scene changes occur and when the timer ends the subtitles is not consistently as long throughout any script I've ever worked with. Framerates of 23.976, 25 and 29.97 all give plenty of room for varying subtitle-end <-> scene-change intervals and that will break scene-timing when shifted to a different source. You can't have shifted a lot if you've never run into this before.

[Schneizel]

Adding to what Scab said, how about that adjusting to VFR sources too? Granted I've never actually done it but Fluff has complained about it a lot so I'm assuming it's a total pain in the ass~