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Kuze · 2012-02-01, 19:16

Sacred Heart also had access to all of the old training videos that it wished for. Plenty of time to prepare defense programs.

It's just that, instead of trying to redirect, or turn it into a glancing blow, or even do what Train once did in Black Cat against sumo guy, jump back right at the moment just before the force catches up with the hit, or I have no idea how many ways there are to avoid taking the full brunt of a telegraphed attack, Vivio just crosses her arms in front of herself.

I know I sound pretty unforgiving and all, but even Einhart could not just do something like that against Corona. She had to match strength for (even more and more and more) strength. Which I didn't like much how it was presented, but was still better than this.

Show.nanohas seems to have a more complete text summary, but I can't read any of it. I know that there's some kind of explanation from Mikaya about what Vivio did, maybe it'll make it a bit better.

Takamura Mamoru · 2012-02-01, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Well yeah a lot of stuff does that, but it comes down to whether it can maintain your suspension of disbelief about it. This doesn't make it sound like they tried very hard to do that here, sadly.

Royal blood >>> Hard work and guts

00-Raiser · 2012-02-01, 20:11

Vivio's overall pedigree is far higher than the majority of people's.

rxrx · 2012-02-01, 20:31

In manga, it is usually hard work hardly works. Then again, Vivio also worked hard to train as well. Maybe getting smacked on the same spot turns that part stronger?

Skane · 2012-02-01, 22:08

"Game over, man! Game over!"

I would be extremely surprised if Vivio loses this fight. Not unpleasantly so, but extremely so.

Go Miura!

Akiyoshi · 2012-02-02, 01:52

I know Vivio will win this one but i hope, with all my heart, that miura manage to pull off something good after this immense let down, poor girl needs to go down with style at least xDU

Keroko · 2012-02-02, 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

A bit, but the key to Micaiah's loss is that her defense is shittier than Precia's. She relies on finishing her opponent quickly in one blow but if that doesn't work she's at a disadvantage in a prolonged fight. All it took was one big attack from Miura to take her out.

Vivio is made of sterner stuff.

I'd be able to buy that, if they hadn't spend time a couple of chapters back to emphasize that not only did Vivio lose the Kaiser armor, but her magic is crappy for defensive magic as well.

And now she suddenly has... very powerful defensive abilities?

Consistency, yo.

Meltyred · 2012-02-02, 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

I'd be able to buy that, if they hadn't spend time a couple of chapters back to emphasize that not only did Vivio lose the Kaiser armor, but her magic is crappy for defensive magic as well.

And now she suddenly has... very powerful defensive abilities?

Consistency, yo.

She is a counter user after all, there's bound to be some defensive moves learnt.

Key Board · 2012-02-02, 05:59

They explain what she is doing in the chapter.

what Vivio is doing reminds me of a technique in hunter x hunter called "Gyo"

She's is quickly relocating a lot of her energy into one portion of her body: In this case, the energy goes to her arm for defense purposes.

This actually an advanced technique because moving all that energy and doing so quickly enough to be useful in a combat situation is not easy

Vivio can probably manage because processing power is a real talent. (remember that her charging lag time for divine buster is really short)

Vivio calls this technique "Sacred Defender"

Now in Hunter X Hunter, the weakness of "Gyo" is that it increases the strength of that one body part, but leaves the rest of the body more vulnerable.

Let's see if the same applies here, and if so, can Miura take advantage of that using feint attacks

Keroko · 2012-02-02, 07:17

Huh, that makes a lot more sense, yeah.

Akiyoshi · 2012-02-02, 13:11

Expecting a good Corona-like reversal, after the fight begun and Einhart proved to be superior to her Golem and started to trash her everyone was expecting an ensuing curbstomp battle and then Corona reveals he has one more ace under her sleeve ...she lose anyway but that was pretty awesome. Hope Miura's breaker isn't her last card to play after being defeated.

Kuze · 2012-02-02, 15:25

To be a bit nitpicky, Gyo is the eye technique that can discern the flow of power in a person's body (are they powering up their arm? Their leg? Their forehead?), Ken and Gou are the techniques for power distribution, which are pretty much indistinguishable from offense or defense - everything flows together at the end when you're capable of putting out enough force to push around doors weighing more than ten tons.

One of the most significant fights in all of HunterxHunter is Gon versus Gensuru who has a powerful exploding move cast from his hands that can dismember anyone who doesn't defend correctly, and Gon has less experience, less power, less everything in comparison to Gensuru. Except for guts. He can block Gensuru's trick for no damage, but only if Gensuru uses it with just one hand. And every part of Gensuru is, in its own way, a weapon that he's willing to use simultaneously.

It's ridiculously brutal, but how Gon wins is incredibly awesome. Not painlessly though, and certainly not easy - he spends weeks training just for this one certain trick to help fool Gensuru, and it's detailed bit by bit. It's Togashi at his best, that's for sure.

In comparison, this is more "Vivio has more everything than anyone else so incredible." Great. Why is this interesting at all then? Whatever her opponents do, she can do better without investing their effort, and she's just having fun while doing it. Her trainers are more invested in her success than anyone else's. She has the bestest heritage possible. Everyone loves her. She's more talented than anyone else in the tournament. Charge times. Whatever the hell else.

Whatever people may feel, it sure isn't compelling to me at all.

Akiyoshi · 2012-02-02, 15:28

^ If Vivio really turns out to be like this, i'll be patiently waiting for the moment where Sieglinde or Einhart deliver her a good beating xDU

Takamura Mamoru · 2012-02-02, 15:39

Now that's gonna be something that is actually interesting, how will Vivio and Einhart compare to the top dogs of the tournament?

As long as Vivio doesn't win I'm fine I guess.

Akiyoshi · 2012-02-02, 15:50

Micaiah seemed to be a top dog herself so that will depend on how far Victoria and Sieglinde's level are from hers. In the latter's case seems to be a big gap as apparently Sieglinde curbstompped Micaiah on their last encounter.

Keroko · 2012-02-02, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuze

In comparison, this is more "Vivio has more everything than anyone else so incredible." Great. Why is this interesting at all then? Whatever her opponents do, she can do better without investing their effort, and she's just having fun while doing it. Her trainers are more invested in her success than anyone else's. She has the bestest heritage possible. Everyone loves her. She's more talented than anyone else in the tournament. Charge times. Whatever the hell else.

Whatever people may feel, it sure isn't compelling to me at all.

It feels like they're trying too hard to make her Nanoha 2.0.

I myself wouldn't mind a talented Vivio with awesome heritage... as long as her powers came from said heritage. That way we'd learn more about who Olivie was and how she fought as Vivio grows in strength. Einhart with her memory can serve as the explanation source for all this.

But instead, almost everything we got for her powers unique in StrikerS is scrapped, and we get a new, fresh Vivio with her own supertalents. If they wanted to do the "delete heritage and start from scratch" idea, then actually have her be the underdog and show us that training she did to get to this point. I still kinda like what I see, but it feels lacking with all the 'I can't win, I must train' cut out. Though this is probably because I like Vivio being powered by her heritage, so the change doesn't really do it for me to begin with.

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-02, 20:07

Yeah, they tried to make her the underdog by saying she wasn't really ideal for this kind of fighting, but that didn't work in practice (especially when the person who said it got completely destroyed). Doesn't seem like this generation has much use for another Chrono: look at all the stuff Touma has in Force, too. Closest thing would be Isis, I suppose, but she's comic relief most of the time, sadly.

Key Board · 2012-02-02, 20:10

To be fair we don't know what kind of a person Olivie was either

Only that she was the era's best hand to hand fighter.

It's possible that she started the same way as Vivio. Ie: she chose martial arts instead of focusing on what suited her best

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-02, 20:43

Maybe, but it's not like that would matter much for a Belkan Lord.

Nightengale · 2012-02-02, 20:59

Show, don't tell.

And the funny thing is that Miura, Corona and even... Einhart has had the better showing of an underdog than Vivio.

Vivio's underdog element was really only illustrated as a part of her story and trial in her initial inferiority to Einhart ( which has since not mattered after their gap lessened ) and the random exposition that Vivio 'sucks at various things.'

2012-02-01, 20:11	Link #1863
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	Vivio's overall pedigree is far higher than the majority of people's. __________________

2012-02-01, 22:08	Link #1865
Skane Anime Snark Join Date: May 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 41	"Game over, man! Game over!" I would be extremely surprised if Vivio loses this fight. Not unpleasantly so, but extremely so. Go Miura! __________________ Hearthstone Battletag: Skane#1425 [Can't GIF This], [Jail's House of Rock], [Kanon In The Snow], [She Ain't Dead Yet... She's In Quantum], [She Stabs] Founder of "The Cult of Psycho-Moe", Member of "ARIA the Social Group" & the "Belkan Saint Church".

2012-02-02, 01:52	Link #1866
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	I know Vivio will win this one but i hope, with all my heart, that miura manage to pull off something good after this immense let down, poor girl needs to go down with style at least xDU __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2012-02-02, 05:59	Link #1869
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	They explain what she is doing in the chapter. what Vivio is doing reminds me of a technique in hunter x hunter called "Gyo" She's is quickly relocating a lot of her energy into one portion of her body: In this case, the energy goes to her arm for defense purposes. This actually an advanced technique because moving all that energy and doing so quickly enough to be useful in a combat situation is not easy Vivio can probably manage because processing power is a real talent. (remember that her charging lag time for divine buster is really short) Vivio calls this technique "Sacred Defender" Now in Hunter X Hunter, the weakness of "Gyo" is that it increases the strength of that one body part, but leaves the rest of the body more vulnerable. Let's see if the same applies here, and if so, can Miura take advantage of that using feint attacks __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2012-02-02, 13:11	Link #1871
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Expecting a good Corona-like reversal, after the fight begun and Einhart proved to be superior to her Golem and started to trash her everyone was expecting an ensuing curbstomp battle and then Corona reveals he has one more ace under her sleeve ...she lose anyway but that was pretty awesome. Hope Miura's breaker isn't her last card to play after being defeated. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2012-02-01, 19:16	Link #1861
Kuze Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	Sacred Heart also had access to all of the old training videos that it wished for. Plenty of time to prepare defense programs. It's just that, instead of trying to redirect, or turn it into a glancing blow, or even do what Train once did in Black Cat against sumo guy, jump back right at the moment just before the force catches up with the hit, or I have no idea how many ways there are to avoid taking the full brunt of a telegraphed attack, Vivio just crosses her arms in front of herself. I know I sound pretty unforgiving and all, but even Einhart could not just do something like that against Corona. She had to match strength for (even more and more and more) strength. Which I didn't like much how it was presented, but was still better than this. Show.nanohas seems to have a more complete text summary, but I can't read any of it. I know that there's some kind of explanation from Mikaya about what Vivio did, maybe it'll make it a bit better.

2012-02-01, 20:31	Link #1864
rxrx Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	In manga, it is usually hard work hardly works. Then again, Vivio also worked hard to train as well. Maybe getting smacked on the same spot turns that part stronger?

2012-02-02, 07:17	Link #1870
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Huh, that makes a lot more sense, yeah.

2012-02-02, 15:25	Link #1872
Kuze Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	To be a bit nitpicky, Gyo is the eye technique that can discern the flow of power in a person's body (are they powering up their arm? Their leg? Their forehead?), Ken and Gou are the techniques for power distribution, which are pretty much indistinguishable from offense or defense - everything flows together at the end when you're capable of putting out enough force to push around doors weighing more than ten tons. One of the most significant fights in all of HunterxHunter is Gon versus Gensuru who has a powerful exploding move cast from his hands that can dismember anyone who doesn't defend correctly, and Gon has less experience, less power, less everything in comparison to Gensuru. Except for guts. He can block Gensuru's trick for no damage, but only if Gensuru uses it with just one hand. And every part of Gensuru is, in its own way, a weapon that he's willing to use simultaneously. It's ridiculously brutal, but how Gon wins is incredibly awesome. Not painlessly though, and certainly not easy - he spends weeks training just for this one certain trick to help fool Gensuru, and it's detailed bit by bit. It's Togashi at his best, that's for sure. In comparison, this is more "Vivio has more everything than anyone else so incredible." Great. Why is this interesting at all then? Whatever her opponents do, she can do better without investing their effort, and she's just having fun while doing it. Her trainers are more invested in her success than anyone else's. She has the bestest heritage possible. Everyone loves her. She's more talented than anyone else in the tournament. Charge times. Whatever the hell else. Whatever people may feel, it sure isn't compelling to me at all.

2012-02-02, 15:28	Link #1873
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	^ If Vivio really turns out to be like this, i'll be patiently waiting for the moment where Sieglinde or Einhart deliver her a good beating xDU __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2012-02-02, 15:39	Link #1874
Takamura Mamoru The Hawk Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Berlin, Fatherland	Now that's gonna be something that is actually interesting, how will Vivio and Einhart compare to the top dogs of the tournament? As long as Vivio doesn't win I'm fine I guess. __________________ MAL

2012-02-02, 15:50	Link #1875
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Micaiah seemed to be a top dog herself so that will depend on how far Victoria and Sieglinde's level are from hers. In the latter's case seems to be a big gap as apparently Sieglinde curbstompped Micaiah on their last encounter. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~ Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2012-02-02 at 16:24.

2012-02-02, 20:07	Link #1877
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Yeah, they tried to make her the underdog by saying she wasn't really ideal for this kind of fighting, but that didn't work in practice (especially when the person who said it got completely destroyed). Doesn't seem like this generation has much use for another Chrono: look at all the stuff Touma has in Force, too. Closest thing would be Isis, I suppose, but she's comic relief most of the time, sadly.

2012-02-02, 20:10	Link #1878
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	To be fair we don't know what kind of a person Olivie was either Only that she was the era's best hand to hand fighter. It's possible that she started the same way as Vivio. Ie: she chose martial arts instead of focusing on what suited her best __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2012-02-02, 20:43	Link #1879
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Maybe, but it's not like that would matter much for a Belkan Lord.

2012-02-02, 20:59	Link #1880
Nightengale ~Night of Gales~ Author Join Date: Dec 2005	Show, don't tell. And the funny thing is that Miura, Corona and even... Einhart has had the better showing of an underdog than Vivio. Vivio's underdog element was really only illustrated as a part of her story and trial in her initial inferiority to Einhart ( which has since not mattered after their gap lessened ) and the random exposition that Vivio 'sucks at various things.' __________________ *Night~and~Gale: ~ The Final Mythology of the Man who Defied Destiny.* The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.