2007-09-25, 11:02 | Link #201 |
Name means little...
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Whatever it is, TSAB has just lost the very tip of its hierarchy in one swoop and quite possibly there is no replacement for any one of the heads... it being an inefficient policing organization knee-deep in internal affairs (just look at YnS scenario) do not help.
There won't be an answer to the question of TSAB making a recovery I think for some time. None of the brains thought of true successors to their positions and Regius consolidated powers upon himself, also with no regard to grooming heir. Lindy's faction, with the three admirals as their silent backers, might rise to prominence, given that they got all the glory from the Cradle fiasco now that their detractors have been silenced forever thanks to Scaglietti's clean-up work. It remains to be seen if the three admirals will step up to the vacuum or they would leave the Saint Church + Halloun to assume position of power. Going back to military... it will take nothing short of a total reorganization for TSAB to bare any resemblance to an actual model military. A personality such as Regius would've been great for that, but his aims were too shallow. I have seen no Heinz Guderian, no Zhuge Liang and no Bismarck in this series to far for that to happen... or for that matter, not even a tactician such as Rommel. Maybe the closest in a thinking field officer is Major Nakajima. I wouldn't expect it to be discussed et al, although this certainly makes for good material for people writing fanfics.
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2007-09-25, 11:26 | Link #202 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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I'm somewhat disappointed that, even up to the last episode, we never found out widespread is the knowledge that the TSAB High Council are 3 brains in jars.
The Brains never thought of heirs because they felt like they would be around forver. Oh sure, they knew intellectually they wouldn't last much longer, but they still thought of themselves as indespensible to the TSAB, irreplaceable. Regius never needed to think about a successor, the High Council would choose one. Or would have, if they hadn't been assassinated before him. The three admirals won't be stepping forward. They've retired from that position decades ago. They can advise, but someone new will have to lead Ground Forces. In the end, the fallout from the Scaglietti case is... surprisingly limited. The High Council is dead, but the TSAB may have a chance to forge its own path now. GF lost its CinC, some highly-regarded experimental weapons, but the rest of its command structure and forces appear to be mostly intact. Main Office and the Dimensional Fleet are completely intact. |
2007-09-25, 13:13 | Link #205 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Speaking of political games, notice how Main Branch and the High Council don't seem to be eye-to-eye? The HC was supporting the Combat Cyborg program but Main Branch banned the technology. Sometimes, I get the feeling that the HC were a last minute addition to the StrikerS setting. Not properly integrated as the other elements.
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2007-09-25, 14:21 | Link #206 |
Name means little...
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I do not mean it in that sense. I mean to look at the personals within the fleet instead of the ground HQ.
As for animes, examples where military organization and politics are discussed in length, such as Legend of Galactic Heroes and Zipang do exist, but comparing those wouldn't be fair to Nanoha series. I can expect no more from the series than what we might see in say, Gundam merchandise.
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2007-09-25, 21:41 | Link #207 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Which is why I think that the TSAB won't really be badly affected. They just lost a meddling advisory team that never shows up in person. The HQ is intact, the Navy is intact, the GF just has to have the next senior officer replace Regius and rebuild the building. And of course, since they weren't badly affected, it'd be the same old TSAB. Same old flaws. For the next time... Quote:
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2007-09-28, 22:30 | Link #208 | |
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Join Date: May 2007
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In light of the the talk of TSAB culture and its future, I thought that this article about the US Army I came across recently brings up some interesting issues, of which quite a few should seem familiar. While hardly a direct mirror of the TSAB, the article shows some of the cultural problems that a real military is currently facing.
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2007-09-29, 18:25 | Link #209 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
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Here are some comments about the article by some officers who are currently serving or were serving recently:
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Now, back to the TSAB. With its command climate, it is a wonder that the TSAB officer corps hasn't lost its confidence in the GF command and that it isn't having problems with officer retention. The way the TSAB promotes its officers and then consistently places officers in positions that are well outside of their training and experience could be somewhat indicative. Its inability to recognize talent can't be helping matters. It doesn't seem like this point was dealt with adequately earlier in the thread. Quote:
Coordinating three armored divisions is more complex but the corps commander will be supported by a correspondingly large corps HQ staff and each of those divisions have their own commanders, divisional staffs and support units. The span of control for the corps commander in question is three basic maneuver units. In both cases, the commander needs to rely on their subordinate officers to make the detailed decisions in execution of their intentions. In the end, normal the overall span of control shouldn't be all that different, two to three basic maneuver units. The aerial mages complicate matters but there is really no excuse for the almost complete lack of cooperation and coordination between RF6's subunits.
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2007-09-30, 16:47 | Link #210 | |
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Join Date: May 2007
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This is the original Armed Forces journal article that was referenced. Replace America with "TSAB" and Vietnam and Iraq with "Book of Darkness" and "Midchilda" for context and you will have the failings of TSAB writ large:
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2007-09-30, 23:03 | Link #211 | ||
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Join Date: May 2007
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If it really wanted to learn from what happened with Jail and the Cradle, it really should take RF6 and other officers that were involved directly and having them examine the broad and specific questions that experiences raised. Each topic would need to be answered as thoroughly and objectively as possible. Quote:
Their reports would have to rest on solid, realistic assessments of what actually occurred, not on what generals officers might have believed to have happened or would like to have happened. Moreover, the recommendations of these reports would need to be tested and adopted. In the wake of the First World War, the German army made in-depth studies of no less than eighty-six issues that the war raised and assigned its best officers to conduct them, with the majority of those officers having had first-hand experience with the tactical and doctrinal developments of 1917 and 1918. The resulting doctrine wasn't perfect by any means (it neglected artillery development and strategy) but it was fundamentally sound and formed the basis for all German doctrinal development and its successes through the Second World War. Of course, the German army had lost and its traditional leadership discredited which let the new CGS bring in the entirety of the German General Staff and place that organization and its officers in all of the major command and staff positions. I can't see any way for the TSAB to "recover" without completely new leadership, headed by a talented military-administrative genius (by Earth, not TSAB standards) with both a sound vision for the TSAB and authority over doctrine and training. To have any credibility, they would probably also need to be a mage and they would also need to have or develop like-minded officers as a staff. Even then, it would take years, maybe decades," to reverse the damage from all of the TSAB's "training." Indeed, as long as the TSAB believes that there is nothing to be learned, nothing will be learned or changed.
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2007-10-01, 02:00 | Link #212 |
Once and Current Subber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Let's not sell the TSAB totally short here.
Keep in mind that they've pushed through a complete tactical and technological overhaul within the last ten years (and ten years of peacetime, at that.) In A's, the whole cartridge system was a historical curiosity used in a practically-mythological past; by Strikers everyone has a cartridge-fired device, to the point where they issue 'em to rookies. That represents a significant upgrade in firepower, especially for mages who aren't necessarily super-strong to begin with; you can compensate by expending more ammo, as it were. But they've obviously not mastered the transition. Why not? Could just be tactics out of the old manual, where you can't go hog-wild on the magical gunplay without completely exhausting your unit, especially if you have a lot of conservative leadership types (and face it, that's what Genya is, no?) Could also be that there's a shortage of the ammunition in the first place - Nanoha may fire 'em as if they were free, but we have no idea how universally well-supplied those ground units are. And again, we don't know how seriously TSAB ground takes its job... think the difference between US Army training in the '30s and in 1942. So what's the lesson that the TSAB ground forces could learn from this? Well, first off, the front-line units are not useful when deployed against small teams of elite forces - they're just handled too unskillfully to work that way. Their past history suggests that deploying a number of smaller teams as fast reaction units will be effective; Nanoha showed, not just that you can kick ass if you toss three S-rank mages in a squad, but that you can get results even from normal-power-level mages if you work their ass off in training. What man has done, man can aspire to... If the TSAB pulls their head out of their ass (and having a significant chunk of your leadership eliminated can be conducive to that), they'll be forming a lot of Riot Force 6s. A couple of veteran aces, a few promising rookies, a punishing training regimen, and you have a fast reaction force you can count on to hold the line while the big formations form up. Special forces, basically? Then again, maybe they'll just make a ton of combat cyborgs. Jail, for all his goofiness, has shown that you can develop working combat cyborgs without being hideously inhumane to them - or at least not so inhumane that it effects their loyalty. We don't actually know that relics were used in the production of the Numbers, do we? If not, then you can make a whole bunch of cyborgs if you want to. And if Subaru and Ginga turned out basically okay, well, then they're not all monsters... and if you're going to be an organization that sends little girls out to fight your wars anyway, you might as well be one that sends out SUPER little girls to do it. ;p Hayate's in a good position now, though. Commanding a successful action with inadequate forces will do that for you, and she was already ahead of the curve in rank and power, with her own "young Turks" to do the dirty work of training and occasionally boot a head or two. Sure, she isn't Rommel reborn, but take our own military history - very few American generals have been fantastic geniuses, and most of the winners got to be that way because they learned and demonstrated how to properly deploy superior forces to achieve victory. |
2007-10-01, 04:26 | Link #213 | |||||
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Then Teana and Subaru managed to have cartridge systems in homebuilts. Ten years later, they are issued to rookies ... in some very select units. Even the regular neo-Belka spears issued as standard armament to neo-Belkan users don't seem to have it. The technology never seemed to be that uncommon, almost available to the asking, only their deployment in TSAB units is lacking. Quote:
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They'd also be even more effective had they imposed a harsher psychomoral conditioning training regime - don't just hold sandbags. Make the Midchildran types shoot human holograms instead of energy balls. Have the Belkan types stab same human holograms. And have those holograms emulate bleeding. Along with appropriate lectures that should toughen them up nicely in short order, without leading to a bunch of accidental massacres by overexcited troops. Quote:
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2007-10-01, 09:01 | Link #214 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Consider what is known of Scaglietti's technique. It requires an unborn fetus to be adjusted to optimise compatibility with the artificial combat systems. That means the future of the unborn child is decided even before birth! Let's say the TSAB decides to start a Combat Cyborg program, how is it going to get the bodies needed? Alternative A: Natural births Method A1: Ask parents to "volunteer" their unborn children. Somehow, I don't see enough parents willing to do so, even with a massive propaganda campaign. Method A2: Make the adjustments mandatory for all pregnancies. Like I said, dictatorial reigme. Also, what are you going to do with unadjusted births? After they're born, it's too late to make the adjustments. And that's just half the problem. After they're born and grow up, do the children get to decide if they want to be Combat Cyborgs or not? If the answer is "yes", we might end up short on recruits again. If the answer is "no", we're back to dictatorial reigme again. Alternative B: Artificially created people, ala Project-F. While there are no "parental concerns" to deal with, there's still the question of do the children get to decide if they want to continue in the program? More importantly, are you willing to give them a proper life (ie, a life without war) to let them make an informed decision in this regard? For "yes" and "no" to both questions, the situation is the same as with natural births. Another problem. Even if you take away their choice, condition them to fight and die for you, the results may not be satisfactory. Such soldiers often have less initiative than voluntary troops. Also, you'll always be afraid of revolt. What happens when the very tool you use to keep danger at bay becomes a danger instead? Therefore, my conclusion is that the effort to build up a Combat Cyborg force will be more trouble than it's worth, unless the TSAB adopts a callous disregard for the very lives that it's supposed to protect. Since the people in the Main Brach apparently do care about the people they protect, they wisely canned this technology. |
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2007-10-01, 09:18 | Link #215 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Chief of General Staff "We need to review our COMSEC procedures so we don't keep getting bushwhacked by people with SIGINT capabilities." General Staff collective: "What's COMSEC?" Chief of General Staff resigns in disgust. At this point, the only two paths I can see for real reforms (I'm actually assuming they are interested) in TSAB are: 1) Invasion or occupation by enemy power, who might just reform the TSAB as a puppet army. Unfortunately, no such enemy powers are in sight. Besides, they would probably just disband the whole institution and start over. 2) Acquire required talent from what may be the last reserve of them in Known Spacetime - the Terrans in the 97th Unadministered World. Bribe retired generals. Smuggle officers into various Terran military academies and Higher Schools. At this point, you don't have to be picky. Even the Military Academy of Zambia would probably be helpful. Of course, post-graduation and a short duration of service, smuggle them back to study the TSAB and institute reforms. |
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2007-10-01, 09:44 | Link #216 | |
***y translator
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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"現在はほとんど使われていない。" As for how the devices and Amy could find the number designation, I'll bet at the very least Midchilda has something equivalent to the internet, and barring that, they're practically right next door to the Infinite Library. Of course, there's still the matter of Revolver Knuckle, which was in use when Subaru was still young. I don't recall if there was a cartridge system installed in it in the flashbacks, but I doubt Subaru had the resources to customize it with such an advanced loading mechanism, compared to Tiana's custom cartridge system.
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2007-10-01, 09:49 | Link #217 | |
~Night of Gales~
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Feels like retcon to me.
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2007-10-01, 10:23 | Link #219 | ||||||
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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The TSAB is currently like a military with only three (arguably two) choices. Light infantry (and they don't even have RPGs, just pistols), a pitifully small "tank corps" and then it is a small number of nukes. This leads to many unnecessary casualties. By increasing the "tank corps", casualties will be reduced. Quote:
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Many things are being increasingly mandated for the public good. Not so long ago, education wasn't mandatory. Now it is. Most of us consider this a good thing. It does not necessarily mean a "dictatorial regime" in the conventional, perjorative sense. In fact, from the public good angle, the whole Inherent Skills program provides a great equalizer to partially roll over the last great inequality in Midchildran society - that is, the gulf between elite mages, normal mages, and normals. Presently, elite mages get all kinds of advantages. For example, they are given officers' treatment at ridiculously young ages. I suspect they get similar privileges in all walks of Midchildran society. It is difficult to believe that such preferential treatment causes absolutely no resentment among the more mundane population. The unfairness aside, it isn't even particularly good for the professions. The growth cycle for a Midchildran seems broadly comparable to human. Even though good mages seem to be on the bright side, there are still various parts of cognition that are not well-developed in children compared to adults, not to mention the sheer lack of maturity and experience. It is probably one of the reasons why TSAB officer training sucks - it is dragged back to allow 10-year olds who hadn't even learned magic at a proper school to pass. Further, talented mages become so disproportionately important that even basic discipline might break down in appeasement efforts. Many have pointed out the difficulties in keeping a tight rein (a rein of correct strength) on talents like Nanoha and Fate, saying that they might be kicked out in a Terran military but will get their own way thanks to the fact the TSAB cannot afford to piss them off. In other words, talented mages are a law unto themselves. How this is "ethical" or good for Midchildran society is difficult to describe. Surely, something that will roll over this gap and reduce the inequality will be good. The Inherent Skills program is just the thing. Quote:
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It is true that conscript troops tend to be somewhat less motivated than voluntary ones. However, we are talking a massive difference in combat power. Otto, Wendi, Deed and Novu are effectively newbie conscripts with no great morale (see how fast they sold out Scarlietti in Ep26 and decide to "turn for good") - they even use drilled maneuvers! Are you really going to tell me that the TSAB Main Defense Line will take them just because the TSAB Main Line is made of "well motivated voluntary troops with initiative" versus the "conscript line running on battle drills"? And if you use Ep16 as any indication, even the guards chosen to secure GF HQ don't have great morale in the face of adversity. Ep23 shows that regular troops are capable of shooting and little else (those jerking idiots in the sky are purely laughable) - they are so comprehensively trained.... Surely, a good indoctrination and training program will, even with conscripts, provide a much more motivated and capable force. Even conscript troops can be reasonably motivated if the war is going well - the trouble is when they start losing or face clearly overwhelming odds. By increasing their capability, the percentage of times when the war goes well for them increases. |
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2007-10-01, 11:52 | Link #220 | ||
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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It seems to me that after A's, that the pioneers (and other unique people) in the TSAB tried out the cartridge system and passed those habits on to their family. As for where they got the systems for A's, they might have been taken from the 'museum'. Quote:
I rate their chances of instituting a breeding program higher then the combat cyborg option. |
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