2011-04-26, 09:27 | Link #1022 | |
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What can you call Jiromaru's attempted suicide scene other than exaggerated, and sensationalized? Because of how it was presented in a thoroughly comedic and hammy light, it lacked an air of seriousness to it, at least for me. To me, it very much felt like a mockery of the sort of heavy drama that borders on melodrama that you sometimes see in a Jun Maeda work. But whereas Maeda comes right up to that melodrama line, but usually is skillful enough to stop from going over it, the Jiromaru attempted suicide scene marches head-on into, well, cheesy melodrama. That's how I find it if I try to take it seriously anyway. I can't speak for anybody else, but when I talk about "serious drama" I don't necessarily mean something as deathly serious as Monster, say. What I basically mean by "serious drama" is realistic drama. Perhaps it would be better if I used the term "realistic drama" going forward. Episode 4, to me, was realistic drama. Drama can absolutely have lighthearted and comedic moments, just like Episode 4 had. Shakespeare himself had plenty of these. But, in my opinion, the key to a good drama is maintaining viewer buy-in. In other words, it is important for the viewer to be able to swallow what he's watching right in front of him, to be able to "suspend disbelief" as it were (not that this should be a problem anyway with a slice of life show, which is a big part of the reason why slice of life and drama tend to go well together, imo). I just couldn't swallow Episode 3 at a basic believability level. Which would be fine if this anime wasn't aiming to tell a believable story, and was more like a pure comedy in the Naked Gun, Space Balls, and Scary Movie tradition. But I had the impression from the first two episodes that this anime was trying to tell a believable story at least. Now, of course drama and comedy can mix in the same work. Indeed, a work entirely lacking comedy may well fail to entertain most people. But there are types of comedy that weave seamlessly into realistic drama, while others take the realism out of realistic drama, imo. Now, the ability to "suspend disbelief" will vary from viewer to viewer, and I respect that. If I myself could have maintained a suspension of disbelief for Episode 3, I probably would have been much less critical of it. But I couldn't. The Jiromaru attempted suicide scene took an episode that had already stretched my suspension of disbelief to the limit (Ohana's almost instantaneous Stockholm Syndrome didn't help there), and just threw it over a cliff, much like what Jiormaru did with himself. Unlike Jiromaru, though, my suspension of disbelief didn't live to tell the tale.
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2011-04-26, 09:40 | Link #1023 | |
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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I believe he meant "has great characters."
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2011-04-26, 10:10 | Link #1024 | |
<em style="color:#808080;">Disabled By Request</em>
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2011-04-26, 11:32 | Link #1026 | |
Me at work
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2011-04-26, 11:53 | Link #1027 | |
♪~ Daydreaming ~♪
Graphic Designer
Administrator Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Italy
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If you still prefer that one switch to this, the same but flipped horizontally.
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2011-04-26, 13:08 | Link #1028 | ||
Crossdressing Menmatic
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Where you live... the question is, do you see me?
Age: 30
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I guess it comes down to whether it's the writer's job to make the story plausible, or the viewer to have the innate ability to suspend their own disbelief. The general consensus with episode 3 is... it was the script's fault. The storyline just wasn't funny enough to justify such a steep decrease in believability. |
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2011-04-26, 13:13 | Link #1029 | |
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2011-04-26, 13:21 | Link #1030 | |
Me at work
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That doesn't seem really seem "down to earth to me". And I know you said "mostly",but this isn't some sort of detail,it's the premise of the show. Again it definatly feels like we didn't watch the same first episode,I have the drama/comedy ration at 50/50 not 90/10
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2011-04-26, 13:25 | Link #1031 | |
Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
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What I'm talking about is the idea that, since episodes 1 and 2 were somewhat dramatic, episode 4 needs to be dramatic as well. How dramatic something is will follow along with the events; in my opinion, they shouldn't make everything dramatic to follow some sort of consistency the viewers feel they need, since that just makes it feel forced. |
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2011-04-26, 13:26 | Link #1032 | ||
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I know some real life stories that honestly aren't that far off from the premise of this show. Quote:
I more or less agree with you on Episode 4. Episode 4's mix of comedy/drama I'm cool with.
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2011-04-26, 13:58 | Link #1033 | |||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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It's not like the girls don't have major personality flaws too. Ohana? A bit naive (though less so than the norm for this character type). Nako? Lacks backbone. Minko? Anti-social. Tomoe? Gossips far too much to deal with the fact her life isn't like a steamy romance novel or soap opera. Quote:
As for Ohana's "Stockholm Syndrome", I've actually revised my position a bit on that. Spoiler for Cross posted from episode 3 thread:
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2011-04-26, 14:03 | Link #1034 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I fully admit that my opinion on this matter is biased, as I was expecting something else. However, once I shift my perspective a bit, I've still haven't been able to come to terms with episode 3 because I personally didn't find it all that funny or amusing. That's simply my opinion on the matter.
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2011-04-26, 14:33 | Link #1035 | |
sleepyhead
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Needless to say Ep3 was meant to be funny (the silliness is evidence). In my opinion the only mistake they made with it was adding the serious scenes. If they had simply gone all out, the episode and series would have been better of.
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2011-04-26, 15:31 | Link #1036 | |||
Crossdressing Menmatic
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Where you live... the question is, do you see me?
Age: 30
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Turning typical situations into serious business is a form of comedy, but not all comedy is as such. There's laughing out loud at extremely silly situations, and then there's chuckling at something a little bit strange. Both qualify as comedy. Quote:
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2011-04-26, 15:43 | Link #1037 | ||
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I mean, the sense I took from Jiromaru's suicide attempt scene is that the anime was trying to accomplish both of the following, simultaneously: 1) Make you laugh at this guy's ineptitude, and just how pitiful he is. 2) Make you feel sympathy for the guy's misfortune, and just how horrible his life situation is (hence you'd agree with how the protagonists handled him and the broader situation). And for me anyway, the anime trying to do both of these very different things at the same time meant that they didn't really accomplish either. It also played a major role in making the whole scene feel very unrealistic to me. Quote:
While I see your point on "curiosity", I have a harder time with your point on"embarrassing". Ohana is clearly not a person who gets embarrassed easily. I mean, in front of a significant number of people, she actually exclaimed to the person writing her as a central character in erotic fiction that she "wants to sparkle!" The Japanese in general may hate being the center of attention, but I certainly don't get that vibe from Ohana at all. If Ohana hated being the center of attention, there's no way she'd go out of her way to cook breakfast for everyone, be willing to speak up against even the slightest perceived injustice she comes across, or take a vocal leading role in trying to get everyone to like her and be on friendly terms with her. The fact that she handled the Episode 4 in-class mobbing very well also speaks to how she's reasonably comfortable being the center of attention, imo.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-04-26 at 16:04. |
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2011-04-26, 16:21 | Link #1040 |
Me at work
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I agree with how the protagonists dealt with him because even in some of the most pathetic people there's got to be some kind of potential in there someplace,that's the message I got anyway from Ohana saying that he at least had gotten something right about her,doesn't mean you have to like the execution of this any better,but to me the "broken record" sound at the end of his speech told me to not really feel sorry for this guy.
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comedy, coming of age, drama, p.a. works, pa works, romance, slice of life |
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