Fate/Zero - Episode 1 Discussion / Poll

[Ragna92]

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

I apologize since I know you wanted to get off the subject already but the Fate/Zero light novel did almost everything right and this is but an adaptation. Whether or not Gen could have used a female master in Zero is debatable but whatever he did write fit the mood very very well. War is, especially when proud aristocratic family lineages are involved, an affair between men. You can say that Rin was a professional etc. but I doubt a professional, esp. a man, would have let Shirou live the way she did countless of times nor made all the easily avoidable mistakes she made. A male master might have let a female master live but it won't be the same if you get the gist Who exactly do you purpose would have been better a female than a male among the masters we do have? The only one remotely possible is Waver but really, a wimpy man growing up is at least as much, if not more, impressive as a proud woman coming to terms with herself etc. and well, it'd have been hella weird to pair her up with Alexander and if you read the fate/zero author's notes then you'd know that Alexander was core for the story as per Nasu himself.

It's one thing to not be sexist, it's another to force women where men are already working better just to introduce "equality".

Yeah because in the end of the day Rin is a kid. And love got in her way, can't really blame her.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Ragna92

Yeah because in the end of the day Rin is a kid. And love got in her way, can't really blame her.

More like we wouldn't have had a story if not for her and she's pretty awesome and I don't consider her kindness a flaw. She isn't anywhere near as efficient as a professional should be though.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Nochgo

I think Deen's F/SN did a pretty bad job about depicting this, but if you watch closely, the summons weren't random at all, meaning all the masters had a relic connecting them to their servants (of the ones shown, at least). What I believe is that if you don't have a specific relic, the hero that you summon is random. Also, it is very hard to find a relic of the heros of the past, so it is very unlikely that two masters would each have a different relic that one hero possessed. And the 7 class system is probably there to stop this as well, though this is just my guess.

Well let's take Rin for example, from what I remeber she did have a relic but I seriously doubt that she meant to summon the archer she had... I don't think she even knew herself who archer really was.

Or is my memory deceiving me and she didn't have a relic?

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The masters all come across as selfish assholes so far, save for Kariya who's already the tragic hero of this show, and Kiritsugu. However, who knows? The other masters might surprise us.

Well, based on how Rin speaks of the war and magi in general in FSN, I think that's par for the course. Magi are selfish assholes.

Originally Posted by viperdk1

I wanted to see this to get an indication of what I had been missing out on (as I said, never got around to watching Fate/Stay Night - though that is clearly going to change once F/Z has finished).

As I'm sure you'll hear many times, the FSN anime adaptation was barely above average at best. Play the game to get the true experience (or even to just not be bored of it).

Originally Posted by kitten320

Well let's take Rin for example, from what I remeber she did have a relic but I seriously doubt that she meant to summon the archer she had... I don't think she even knew herself who archer really was.

Or is my memory deceiving me and she didn't have a relic?

She didn't have a relic. She just had a jewel with a lot of mana stored inside it, and was hoping to have that give her Servant higher stats (as Zouken mentioned to Kariya in this episode, the Master's talent and personal stats will affect the Servant).

[Ragna92]

Originally Posted by matapat

Man, Fate/Zero's first episode is already better than the entirety of the F/SN adaptation. ufotable is really amazing, I'm going to have to check out those Kara no Kyoukai films sometime.

The episode really was rather dialogue/info dump heavy, but it's better to get all that out of the way now. The various storylines and introductions for the first five masters interspersed with drama and tragedy were really well done.

Nice to see Zouken finally animated after all these years, and he's even more monstrous, creepy and menacing a bastard as he was in the VN.

The more serious mood of the series is welcome as well. Nice to see how a proper and expected holy grail war is truly set up with elite-level Magi filling the ranks of the participants rather than random high school kids being thrown into an outrageously dangerous situation most of them can't even begin to grasp the magnitude of.

I know right. This Fate/zero episode 1 adaptation beats the Fate stay night anime and movie. Also I think I'm going to like Gil and Saber more here.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I disagree. I don't see any reason why a Rin Tohsaka equivalent would not have worked here for at least one of the seven masters. Rin struck me as reasonably competent and "professional" in Fate/Stay Night. Archer certainly thought very highly of her capabilities, and her ability to know what she's doing.

Now, I respect that many here are tired of teenage female-dominated anime casts, and hence the Fate/Zero masters cast is very refreshing to them. I just personally think that this might be a case of the pendulum swinging too much the other way.

Just my opinion, and this will probably be my last posting on this subject on this thread.

Which role could she have taken, though? All of the masters are necessary for the plot, and none of them really work as females. And, honestly, throwing someone like Rin into a war like this would just be outright cruel. Plus, Rin only works as a character because she's from one of the three original families (Tohsaka, Matou, Einsbern) who are entered into the war by default, and thus was raised from birth to (potentially) fight in it. If Rin were from any other family, then she wouldn't have the necessary drive to enter into a war where she might have to kill people.

Plus, there are important female characters (Iri being the most obvious), and they do get involved in the fighting. It's just that none of them are the official masters.

Originally Posted by Nochgo

I think Deen's F/SN did a pretty bad job about depicting this, but if you watch closely, the summons weren't random at all, meaning all the masters had a relic connecting them to their servants (of the ones shown, at least).

The VN does a pretty bad job of portraying it, honestly. Only two of the masters are explicitly shown to have had a relic, and both of those are highly plot-important.

[ookamigirl]

It finally started! There was a lot of info in this episode about the holy grail war & the past related to it. Interesting who it only brought sadness and hate.
Rin was totally cute ( ・ω・)
So the heroes were summoned & the war is about to begin! Great episode m(_ _)m

[Haak]

Take it to the game thread...

[ThereminVox]

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

I am assuming you didn't read the novel?

Why does it always feel like I'm coming out when I answer "yes" to this question, regardless of what series it's for?

What I was implying with my post was that FZ is already doing a better job of characterization than the FSN series did. Obviously there's more to the character than I somewhat facetiously said, but my memory suggests that those were Sakura's two primary character traits explored in the Studio Deen show. Which means either I'm nuts (always a possibility) or FZ is already building a more sympathetic cast. And I hope they keep it up.

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by MagicaLideaL

They could have stand there and talk properly and not walking in a circle like what they did. lol

P.S: If not for the circle walking scene, then there is close to none animation in the whole episode.

If I remember the novel correctly, they were sitting on a veranda sipping drinks in the Italian sun, which I think would've been much nicer to look at. Seems a shame that we had scenes in Italy, London, and wherever the Einzberns live, yet all we got were a couple establishing shots and the zoom-out on the castle.

[raruku]

Best shit of the season indeed.

[Nochgo]

I'm sure people have realized this by now, but Ilya is actually Shirou's older step sister: born 9 years before the start of 4th Grail War, and 10 year gap between that and 5th Grail War. Though Ilya seems to like to play the part of an imouto

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

You can say that Rin was a professional etc. but I doubt a professional, esp. a man, would have let Shirou live the way she did countless of times...

Rin and Shirou formed a partnership, not terribly different than what we seem to be getting with Rin's father and Kirei here. So of course Rin wasn't trying to kill Shirou. It wasn't because she was "unprofessional". It was because it was part of her overall strategy, just like Kirei and Tokiomi have a mutually supportive strategy of their own.

Yes, she also grew fond of Shirou, but it's not like two masters working together (at least for a time) is necessarily unprofessional or bad strategy.

nor made all the easily avoidable mistakes she made.

Even professionals are allowed to make mistakes.

It's one thing to not be sexist, it's another to force women where men are already working better just to introduce "equality".

I am by no means accusing Fate/Zero of sexism (and I'm making this reply primarily to make this clear).

I just think it would have been nice to have at least one female master. Not for any reasons of "equality" but simply for the sake of variety in and of itself. That's all. It's certainly no big deal. This anime is still likely to be one of the best of the year.

Clearly most people on this thread disagree with me on the gender point, and that's fine.

[Sheba]

Any complains about Fate/Zero's "lack of variety" should be adressed to the author of the original novel.

[Proto]

Even professionals are allowed to make mistakes.

She doesn't get paid money.

/derp

[AvianWing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I am by no means accusing Fate/Zero of sexism (and I'm making this reply primarily to make this clear).

I just think it would have been nice to have at least one female master. Not for any reasons of "equality" but simply for the sake of variety in and of itself. That's all. It's certainly no big deal. This anime is still likely to be one of the best of the year.

Clearly most people on this thread disagree with me on the gender point, and that's fine.

I wouldn't mind a kickass female master, either, and I think it's kinda condescending to say, oh this war is a man's affair. However, introducing female character for the sake of variety is like adding that token black guy to the movies... it's really just an illusion of diversity.

I feel like it's really difficult to write a female character in anime without falling to the trap of an established archtype. Being a tsundere took away any credibility that Rin had, or, at least I took her a lot less seriously. Saber already took the dignified female character, so we don't exactly want a repeat of her. I would actually like someone similar to Aozaki Touko from kara no kyoukai-- I think she would make an excellent master.

[klare]

glad that the quality is totally different from the FSN series, more like Kara no Kyoukai's level

so Illya is actually Shiro's foster father's daughter...? the story about Kariya and Sakura is sad

Saber appeared for only 5 seconds, i guess they are surprise she is the "king"

i think this is a good start for a series

[blue_sora]

First episode is pretty dialogue-heavy, but strangely enough even without the lack of action I didn't feel bored at all even if it's actually 47 minutes of talking. I really laughed when they were circling Kirei, what, is ufotable practicing their animation skills in that scene?

Doesn't hate any of the masters yet and the ones I like are Kariya and Waver. I thought I would like Kiritsugu, but when I know he blow up a jetliner just because one target is on it, I dislike him immediately. Guess now I know he's going to do some things I would disagree with through out the series.

Illya's very cute in the OP.

[Haak]

It was a really good idea going for a double episode. From what I can remember from the light novel, the first three chapters were mostly talk. If they didn't do a double episode then we wouldn't have seen some proper development till perhaps fourth episode, making it a bit of a slow start.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Haak

It was a really good idea going for a double episode. From what I can remember from the light novel, the first three chapters were mostly talk. If they didn't do a double episode then we wouldn't have seen some proper development till perhaps fourth episode, making it a bit of a slow start.

Agreed. The one hour premier was definitely the way to go. Smart choice on ufotable's part.