Ichigo and Rukia? or Ichigo and Orihime?

[evenex]

http://www.bleachforums.com/showpost...&postcount=774

Ichi x Ruki was voted the most popular couple in Bleach (again)

[Asianknight82]

In the end, it doesn't matter what's more popular, its all up to the author. I mean look at Shuffle, the ending pissed off a lot of people. XP

[Starwing]

Aww... I think it's rather sad we drove away some of the IchiHime fans. I think... even if their interpretations were not the conventional ones, and perhaps not the ones the author intended. They were refreshing to read. The overwhelming IchiRuki response... bah.

Honestly, I wouldn't say IchiRuki fans are hostile exactly, more like... overly-enthusiastic about posting their beliefs about the pairing. Heck, such deep beliefs + the amount of ammunition we have = very dangerous and potentially alienating posts.

So I hope IchiHime fans haven't given up on posting. I, for one, highly appreciate (most of) your posts, even if I don't agree with them. I daresay a lot of other IchiRuki fans agree. Debating/arguing is always more fun when there are two sides. So please don't give up! (*I know it's kinda... -.-' when it comes from an IchiRuki fan)


Anyways, on topic:
Bleach is quite unique in this love triangle, in that the two girls appeal to different people but are generally both very likable. (Of course, one is more popular than the other, but neither are portrayed in a completely negative way). I honestly can't remember the last anime/manga I've read or seen that has this strange scenerio. I think Kubo has taken a big risk here.

@Oberon, of course it's very easy to make anything canon. But most readers are not so easily satisfied. If we do not believe it, it doesn't matter if it is canon or not. Kubo's job is not to give us a resolution (any fan can do that), but to make us BELIEVE it. To make IchiHime believable to the general public is neigh on impossible, as you have seen even in your arguments in this thread. I sometimes wonder if Kubo challenges himself and will attempt it anyway. He's tackled so many things that I would not put it past him.

But so far, I do not see any intention of bringing Ichigo and Orihime any closer. Their relationship has not changed very much, only Orihime's feelings have intensified. Ichigo has interacted with her almost minimally, on the most trivial level. These interactions may be memorable if you are a fan, but on the scale of the entire story, they are almost negligable. Of course, ít's impossible to predict what Kubo has planned, but so far there is almost 0% evidence (for me) that Kubo is planning to make Ichigo return Orihime's affections.

One can argue that while IchiRuki has the abundance of connections, IchiHime makes up for it with the depth of Orihime's feelings. It is up to reader interpretation whether Orihime's love is enough or not. IMHO, if it wasn't enough to reach Ichigo after she's tried so hard, it most likely is not that much of a trumph card.


It takes talent to make a cannon couple well liked. Especially in a show that doesn't focus on romance. Anime girl characters in general have a harder time gaining fans. That's why BOTH Rukia and Orihime were a breath of fresh air for me. They are 3 dimensional, their character developments fall as well as rise, and they've always redeemed themselves after falling out of favor.

That said, IF IchiRuki was canon, it would be one of the most popular canon pairings out there in the shounen world, comparatively. Kubo would lose nothing by giving them a definitive ending. I cannot say the same thing about IchiHime, especially considering its unpopularity in Japan. (I thought it was an exaggeration at first until I saw the polls. IchiHime rankings are lower than I would ever have thought possible, a thorough shock to me.)

There are also many canon couples that gained popularity AFTER confirmation. Because psychologically, many people MAKE themselves like a pairing or a character, and afterwards ends up genuinely liking them. Canon also opens up a new set of dynamics that as a writer, it would be refreshing to write about after so much shounen. This is especially true for a mangaka like Kubo, who claims to enjoy shoujo very much, and has a knack for portraying emotions anyways.


This is why I think an open ending would not benefit Bleach. I view it as a bit of a cop-out. Why develop such intense drama if it's never going to be resolved? If you think you'd lose fans by finishing it, why did you ever start it in the first place?

Obviously, Kubo being a mangaka I respect and have absolute faith in, he has weighed the consequences before tackling drama of this caliber. I do not believe he will leave it unresolved. I don't think we have to argue about whether or not there will be a resolution, just what the resolution is. Ichigo chooses Rukia, Orihime or neither.

It's like asking readers the question: "Who does Ichigo like better, Rukia or Orihime?"
And once the readers became all riled up, an open ending will be like saying... "Ah, interesting question isn't it. I don't know the answer, you tell me."


As to what the resolution is...
It cannot be denied that most of the readers will see 95% of the manga leading to wards IchiRuki, some even going so far as to disprove Ichigo's attachment to Orihime, which has to be done for a reason.

Kubo MAY try to give Orihime a romantic ending with Ichigo, it is still possible, but at this point, Kubo has created a monster in IchiRuki. It's popularity, depth and uniqueness is not something that can be easily topped. I personly think that even if Kubo tried, it will fail.

How can Kubo compensate for the 5 years' worth of IchiRuki interactions, developments, and panels without turning Bleach into a sappy romance? Make another 5 years and stop IchiRuki developments altogether? That's the only way I see. And it's a one way ticket to lose popularity.

[Asianknight82]

@StarWing

I like your post, you approached it in a very civil manner and I applaud you.

Spoiler:

To me the Rukia is no longer a focus as a primary female lead. She has become apart of the rescue crew as Orihime was in the Soul Society arc. How I see it is a 50/50 split in story focus between the two girls. Depending on how long this "final" arc is to be, it'll end up being 50/50. Theres only two major arcs so far, The Soul Society arc, and the current one. IF you look at it like that, then the story is split into two parts, one having Rukia being the female lead and one having Orihime as the female lead.

[Forever_young]

Nah, just cause she's getting rescued it makes her more of an important character but Rukia will always be the heroine in Bleach. I mean, if you just look at the HM Arc you could say Orihime's a second female lead but if you look at Bleach as a whole thing Rukia's the lead heroine.
Even KT himself she as a author of Bleach he is glad to have a hero and heroine coming 1st and 2nd on the character official poll (or sumthin like that)
Plus the depth in Ichi x Ruki relationship's kinda too hard to ignore XP

I find it really funny how Nell x Ichigo is higher than Orihime x Ichigo on the poll

In the end, it doesn't matter what's more popular, its all up to the author. I mean look at Shuffle, the ending pissed off a lot of people. XP

Really, I didn't watch Shuffle but who was the most popular pairing?

[Asianknight82]

Um, I'm not really sure, but I know most people did not like the final pairing. All the others were more popular, except for probably Primula, cause that would just be too much loli for the audience, lol. Although she was one of the possible candidates.

But, since the current arc has started. You cannot deny the fact that the attention has shifted to Orihime.

[yahoosoda]

Originally Posted by Asianknight82

But, since the current arc has started. You cannot deny the fact that the attention has shifted to Orihime.

Spoiler for manga:

Not really. Orihime isn't really the main focus of the manga. While they are rescuing her the gist of the manga is with Ichigo and the crew and not really with her. Orihime has little development either.

This whole arc appears pointless to me. It even takes away the focus from Ichigo and the group to other characters. To some extent it feels like a filler.

[Asianknight82]

You sound bitter

[Zu Ra]

Spoiler for Manga:

Originally Posted by yahoosoda

Not really. Orihime isn't really the main focus of the manga. While they are rescuing her the gist of the manga is with Ichigo and the crew and not really with her. Orihime has little development either.

This whole arc appears pointless to me. It even takes away the focus from Ichigo and the group to other characters. To some extent it feels like a filler.

Yeah you are correct despite being being Rescue Inoue arc . Inoue doesnt even have one whole chapter dedicated to her and Rukia has two ( 267 268 ).Secondary chracters really dont get much exposure/love in KT titles : D

[Qc0Jh1axT]

Originally Posted by Asianknight82

Um, I'm not really sure, but I know most people did not like the final pairing. All the others were more popular, except for probably Primula, cause that would just be too much loli for the audience, lol. Although she was one of the possible candidates.

But, since the current arc has started. You cannot deny the fact that the attention has shifted to Orihime.

Spoiler:

Yeah. I don't deny it. I also don't deny the fact that the knight / hero in question for this arc has shifted from Ichigo to Ishida.

[Zu Ra]

@Qc0Jh1axT;

Spoiler for Manga:

Originally Posted by Qc0Jh1axT

Yeah. I don't deny it. I also don't deny the fact that the knight / hero in question for this arc has shifted from Ichigo to Ishida.

I have to disagree the so called main chracter of arc this arc not even getting one whole chapter dedicated to her and Rukia getting TWO whole chapters -whats that -

[Adam E]

Ichigo and Rukia, for reasons others have already explained.

Originally Posted by Asianknight82

But, since the current arc has started. You cannot deny the fact that the attention has shifted to Orihime.

Orihime has done very little and hasn't received much development since the spotlight shifted to her. So far, it seems like her capture is just a MacGuffin, and she's the "Fifth Business" in this arc.

[yahoosoda]

Originally Posted by Asianknight82

You sound bitter

If you're responding to me, then I'm disappointed.

Simply because I don't share your opinion on the what's happening in this anime label me as 'bitter'.

I'm bored with Bleach in general but not bitter because of some inane shipper fandom or whatever. The current episodes and chapters do not have the same spark as the earlier ones.

Frankly, I'll wait for the whole series to end before I follow it seriously again. The only leisure I give Bleach is to occassionally drop by these forums.

[sorbet]

Originally Posted by Asianknight82

But, since the current arc has started. You cannot deny the fact that the attention has shifted to Orihime.

No one will ever deny the fact that Orihime gets more attention in the current arc. But the fact remains that it has done nothing to improve IchiOri relationship. Oh and it's not about whether the pairing is popular or not. So far no one will ever convince that Ichigo/Orihime will end up together. Not with the direction manga is going right now. Unless Ichigo started to show some intertest in Orihime, this pairing is doomed.

Spoiler for spoiler:

Ichigo only mentioned Orihime in ch 270 like 2 pages. Even after realised that Orihime did not came to HM by her own will, he still failed to have passion to save her. This pairing is so dead after chapter 270.

Oh I am all for IchiRuki. They are prefect for each other.

[Asianknight82]

@Yahoosoba, Its not your response, but rather the way you say it per say.

Rukia had a fight with an Espada, of course theres gonna be some time devoted, just as there was chapters devoted to Chad and Ishida for their respective fights, so what makes that any different? And during the SS Arc, Rukia just pout around in her tower all day reminincing about the past. At least stuff is actually happening to Orihime.

hehe.. prefect... uh, don't mind me, simply cause prefect is a word of its own so it reminded me of something XP

Spoiler:

Oh yeah, his passion for saving Orihime is sooo dead that he went ape shit on Uli when he mentioned that it was him that took Orihime away.

[evenex]

Originally Posted by sorbet

Oh I am all for IchiRuki. They are prefect for each other.

Agreed

And Rukia will always be the official Heroine of Bleach. Everytime you look at official websites and stuff Rukia's name is always written before Orihime's. Chapter 0 was based on Ichigo and Rukia, On the official Soul and Vibe book it has a pic of Ichigo and Rukia etc. I honestly think people who are Ori fanz say stuffs like 'Orihime is a heroine'.

Plus 'stuffs' were happening around Rukia too in the SS arc. And why the heck do they even wanna change the heroine of Bleach when according to the poll Rukia's 3 times as popular than Orihime and even Yoruichi was beating her

Anyway, back to the topic. Ichi x Ruki 4eva!

By the way is it just me or in every action anime do girls get a bigger role in the story when they confess their feelings to the hero and not in a comedic way? eg. Shakugan No Shana

[Asianknight82]

Didn't Kubo said he wanted to make Orihime the heroine as well? correct me if I'm wrong.

[yahoosoda]

Originally Posted by Asianknight82

@Yahoosoba, Its not your response, but rather the way you say it per say.

Geeze...you people really do try to look so much into things

It's an opinion and you're getting all defensive.

[Melodymix]

Originally Posted by Asianknight82

Didn't Kubo said he wanted to make Orihime the heroine as well? correct me if I'm wrong.

That's just gay. I mean, I understand that if she was a REALLY popular character in Bleach, but she's not. And if he said that I think he meant it as in a secondary female lead

[Asianknight82]

Originally Posted by yahoosoda

Geeze...you people really do try to look so much into things

It's an opinion and you're getting all defensive.

Didn't mean to sound defensive, guess its very difficult to hear tone through written words huh? sorry if I did XD