Learning Japanese

[iLney]

うち＝私 ？　I've never seen that...

The conversation happened at a Care Center and the speaker was the boss (I guess) so I had a hard time thinking "うち" referred to a residence.

As for why I need the kanji: to learn the reading.

[Haladflire65]

Originally Posted by iLney

うち＝私 ？　I've never seen that...

The conversation happened at a Care Center and the speaker was the boss (I guess) so I had a hard time thinking "うち" referred to a residence.

As for why I need the kanji: to learn the reading.

'uchi' can be used in place of 'watashi'. We do it often.

[mendokusa]

when speak sentence like same meaning,japanese speak like next
1.今後の高等教育についてですが、
2.高等教育の指針はどのようになるとお考えでしょうか
3.貴会の正会員は何名でしょうか。
4.ひとつだけご確認させていただきたいのですが、人材不足とはどういう意味合いでしょうか。
5.貴会は主にどういった活動（or事業）をなさっていますか。
5.人材育成を国内外のどちらでお考えでしょうか。
6.プロジェクト・ファイナンスは議題になることが予定されていますか。
7.部署会議はいつですか。
8.このデータをいただけませんか。

[mendokusa]

由美ちゃんは、広々とした牧草と、青い空とを思い描いた。そこで手に手をとって動物の世話をす る若夫婦の姿 を想像した。自分をその妻に置き換えて見たりもした

見たりした。
some verb is connected by"たり"
食べたり話したりする。
when do many thing,only the one thing .
見たり（いろんなことを）した

うちは全館禁煙です.

"うち"is subject's
then mean subject's building
this kanji is "家or内",but don't mean only house,often "うちorウチ"。
うちの製品がよく売れたit sold my company's product much
this "うち"is my company.
内＝家庭、家族、家
japanese think 家庭（内） is myself.
2月3日”鬼は外,福は内”demon go away,happiness come here
内is my house and my family.

[nikorai]

mendokusaさん

Thanks as always, mendokusa.

国内外のどちらで

Great. I'd never figure to say like that myself.

[iLney]

Ah splendid answers. Thank you very much, everyone

[Lord Raiden]

Ok, I have a question, and I'm not sure this is the right place, but I'll take a whack at it anyways. I remember at one time running into a Japanese Kanji learning system that took the Kanji themselves and broke them down into their component parts, explaining what each meant. It was a way to allow new readers to very rapidly learn Kanji by identifying the key parts and easily identifying its meaning. I'd like to track down a system like that again, but I lost my original notes on what it was. If anyone knows what it is, I'd love to hear from you, because I think something like that, for a mechanically minded person like me, would be likely the best way to learn and memorize Kanji.

[RandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Lord Raiden

Ok, I have a question, and I'm not sure this is the right place, but I'll take a whack at it anyways. I remember at one time running into a Japanese Kanji learning system that took the Kanji themselves and broke them down into their component parts, explaining what each meant. It was a way to allow new readers to very rapidly learn Kanji by identifying the key parts and easily identifying its meaning. I'd like to track down a system like that again, but I lost my original notes on what it was. If anyone knows what it is, I'd love to hear from you, because I think something like that, for a mechanically minded person like me, would be likely the best way to learn and memorize Kanji.

Hmm... well, there's zhongwen.com, but that's Chinese-oriented, and some of the explanations of some of the more complex ones aren't really as straightforward as they're presented there. I know there are a number of books out there that use mnemonic devices and so forth to help memorize the kanji, but they tend to annoy me because their explanations of the components are not always etymologically sound. So... hmm.

[iLney]

Originally Posted by Lord Raiden

Ok, I have a question, and I'm not sure this is the right place, but I'll take a whack at it anyways. I remember at one time running into a Japanese Kanji learning system that took the Kanji themselves and broke them down into their component parts, explaining what each meant. It was a way to allow new readers to very rapidly learn Kanji by identifying the key parts and easily identifying its meaning. I'd like to track down a system like that again, but I lost my original notes on what it was. If anyone knows what it is, I'd love to hear from you, because I think something like that, for a mechanically minded person like me, would be likely the best way to learn and memorize Kanji.

This? http://kanji.koohii.com/

I call it t3h Sparta system

[mako1138]

From what I've heard, the Heisig method does work. However at the end you'll have learned a bunch of kanji without knowing the Japanese pronunciations, which you'll still have to learn. But there's no doubt that knowing the meaning of the kanji is valuable in itself.

[nikorai]

This? http://kanji.koohii.com/

I call it t3h Sparta system

I can see that it's an old book and the method it introduces is accepted by many learners. And the set of kanji is very nice, too. But there's something entirely wrong with this book, and that is a total lack of kanji pronunciation.
As I said, I learn words, not kanji themselves. And kanji are memorized automatically as you progress with your studies.
It's like in the translation exercises I posted above. The same words are repeated regularly, and if you write the same word 10 times around you inevitably memorize it whether you want it or not. Plus you learn grammar at the same time. I think that Japanese is tough enough even without "t3h s|>4r4" system.

[iLney]

There is a second book which teaches you how to pronounce them. However, it's kinda useless: there are too many readings while the book only has only a scanty number of them. Anyway, it's up to you. If you want to learn the meaning and the writing, there is nothing I know of can beat it. Within 3 months, (it took me ~1 month), you eat 2000+ kanji! After that, learning Japanese is actually way easier since you have remove the most alien part of Japanese language (grammar is the second) out of the way.

BTW, it helps somewhat reading the second book. I can vaguely guess the reading of some kanjis. There is a weird logic in them... anyway, it's up to you.

Some people like the method much that they complain there are only 3500 kanjis in 3 books to learn

[nikorai]

iLney
You know, I started learning japanese with
http://japanese.about.com/

There's kanji land with nice kanji there, the reading and examples of usage in words.
My textbook for the beginners also had kanji listed separately in each unit.
But after some time I realized that I can very well skip that part and learn the words instead. And my idea was supported in the textbook I'm learning now. There are only word lists with their reading in kana and translation of useful expressions.
So I think that now I know only a few hundred kanji but grammar worries me more, actually.
That is, I'm a bit skeptical about the idea to learn 2000 kanji in a month. I guess that writing down the whole set of kanji doesn't really improve your language skills.
There's something good in the traditional textbooks. It can take much more time to learn using them but you can be sure of positive results from your studies.

I can vaguely guess the reading of some kanjis. There is a weird logic in them...

Yep. Guessing on-yomi is a good game. Sometimes you can guess correctly but other times your guess can be completely off the mark.
For example,
'ji' is 寺、侍、時、持
But 待　is not 'ji' but 'tai'. You can only memorize it.

On the whole I'm trying to use the same approach here as I was taught English and French at the uni. There were tons of translation exercises to learn all those rules and words, and in addition I had constant speech practice.
So, at the moment I'm missing one important component in my Japanese studies and that is speech practice. I guess that language courses might help but for now I can only choose between my self-studies and nothing at all.
Hopefully I have you guys, with lots of suggestions and a real help with checking exercises.

[iLney]

I see it as a lubricant: no matter how good it is, if one doesn't move, he's not going anywhere.

[mendokusa]

As japanese,
I'm sure kanji don't only express pronunciation.
for example
"時計"
someone don't know pronunciation,but know meaning.
"時"is TIME,"計"is METER,so this is WATCH or CLOCK.
many kanji have some pronunciation each conbination other kanji.
but keep often same meaning.
”見学”is ”見る”and ”学ぶ”.

I think "訓読み" is more important than ”音読み”.
"訓読み"is that pronunciation express meaning.
"音読み"is that pronunciation is from china.

[nikorai]

iLney

I see it as a lubricant: no matter how good it is, if one doesn't move, he's not going anywhere.

You mean that I need to try a new approach or what?
I'm sure it's all about the time you dedicate to your studies. Now I can only find a couple of hours a day for my Japanese. It isn't really enough for any serious progress.

mendokusaさん

I'm sure kanji don't only express pronunciation.

It reminds me of my attempts to read Chinese without knowing the pronunciation at all.

However when reading out loud it really gets on your nerves when you come across kanji you don't know. In European languages you can at least read the words and guess the meaning from pronunciation and context. So it seems that I come to the problem from the other end.

[iLney]

Originally Posted by nikorai

iLney

You mean that I need to try a new approach or what?
I'm sure it's all about the time you dedicate to your studies. Now I can only find a couple of hours a day for my Japanese. It isn't really enough for any serious progress.

I was replying to your remark "I guess that writing down the whole set of kanji doesn't really improve your language skills." which is true. But it helps a lot if you really try to learn by whatever method.

I also don't have much time to learn Japanese so I rely on the "sentences" method. However, the way I am doing allows me to listen, reading, and speak to certain extent, but I don't feel like I'm able to write down anything... Well, I guess it does not matter much since I don't learn the language to pass tests

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Site I'm using

We can distinguish at least two such cases: the pseudo-future + と + する and pseudo-future + と + 思う. While […]+と+する normally means “to consider something […]”, the meaning changes to “at the point of doing […]” when combined with a pseudo-future:

ご飯を食べようとしたら 、電話がかかってきた。
"As (we) were about to eat, the phone rang."

I get most of the explanation, but I don't get why, in the example sentence, する is in the したら form. What's the conditional idea here?

[iLney]

I guess whoever says that must be really bothered by the fact that the phone call disrupts his meal.

[mendokusa]

1.食べようとしたら、電話がかかってきた。
I had a phone call if I would eat a meal.
2.食べるとしたら、ご飯になるだろう。
It will be rice if I eat a meal.

1.is, think will eat,but not eat yet,have phone call before eating.
2.is, hypothesis, think which eat or not.

next is same meaning
1.食べようとしたら、その前に電話がかかってきた。
2.食べると仮定したら、ご飯になるだろう。