Character Discussion - Suzaku

[bladeofdarkness]

then how is this NOT a derailment of his character
you could argue that its a logical development, but that development is derived from a TOTAL MENTAL BREAKDOWN
after the flejia went off, he could have turned to cannibalism and it would still "techniclly" be a development
but it wouldnt make it any less of a derailment from his original character

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

then how is this NOT a derailment of his character
you could argue that its a logical development, but that development is derived from a TOTAL MENTAL BREAKDOWN
after the flejia went off, he could have turned to cannibalism and it would still "techniclly" be a development
but it wouldnt make it any less of a derailment from his original character

Where did i state it is a derailment or not? I do not examine this actually, i was just loling with the whole "shit", he decided to go in the end. Like, AH Suzu, Stage 5 dude, Stage 5. All it would take, it would be a yes to Zero, but no, you wanted to play by the rules and thought everything was gonna get magically in its place. One thing i always loved about his chara and at the same time i was "ahhhhhh."

[snowdevil_crow]

Ah, but he never had much potential to be a cannibal. All through the second season, though, he was struggling with questions like "Can I justify killing some to save others" and "How much is too much," and "Am I really in the right, are my methods really the best ones...?" and FLEIJA was just the last straw that made him go "SCREW IT. I was wrong, the ends do justify the means" and basically admitted to himself that he had, all along, been sort of following that thinking from the beginning, no matter how he tried to deny it (After all, if you're killing people to save other people, that's still a case of "it's justified because in the end it saves people". He's always been a hypocrite, it's just he never wanted to admit it)

[bladeofdarkness]

he still went too far in my opinion
going from semi-heroic
to dragon of the most evil dictator in history
that is basiclly taking a nosedive down the slippery slope

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

he still went too far in my opinion
going from semi-heroic
to dragon of the most evil dictator in history
that is basiclly taking a nosedive down the slippery slope

Lol, please he was never "heroic." He just accepted, that Lelouch's philosophy was right afterall. And that he did a lot of shit as well, and entered the emo-corner with Lulu and decided ZR. <--description in a shallow nutshell, that is lol

[bladeofdarkness]

stopping in mid battle to save a woman and her child falling from a nearby building ?
willingly risking his life to stop a fight between rival members of the purist faction ?

while the SIDE he was fighting on was villainous, suzaku himself had always been portrayed as mostly heroic
far more so then lelouch

at least in season 1

season two might have played up his antagonist part, but he was still far from a "bad guy" on matters no concerning lelouch and the OOBK
the whole set up in ep 8 with the million zero's was BUILT around that fact
he end up being unable to refrain kallen because he refuses to sink to lelouch's level (and later, gets his ass kicked trying to apologize)
and he had taken the flejia unto the battle field and refused to use it under any circomstances, even to save his own life (which led to something that is not really his fault)

he was never portrayed as particularly villainous or cold hearted

and then in the final arc he goes ape shit and doesnt care about the deaths of god only knows how many people

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

stopping in mid battle to save a woman and her child falling from a nearby building ?
willingly risking his life to stop a fight between rival members of the purist faction ?

while the SIDE he was fighting on was villainous, suzaku himself had always been portrayed as mostly heroic
far more so then lelouch

at least in season 1

season two might have played up his antagonist part, but he was still far from a "bad guy" on matters no concerning lelouch and the OOBK
the whole set up in ep 8 with the million zero's was BUILT around that fact
he end up being unable to refrain kallen because he refuses to sink to lelouch's level (and later, gets his ass kicked trying to apologize)
and he had taken the flejia unto the battle field and refused to use it under any circomstances, even to save his own life (which led to something that is not really his fault)

he was never portrayed as particularly villainous or cold hearted

and then in the final arc he goes ape shit and doesnt care about the deaths of god only knows how many people

Alright, it was the worse derailment ever!111 we got it.

You ask me though, i think it was a natural outcome of "tired of pretending" and "fuck, i killed 483049304930 people" It is not like Suzaku was being dandy, he was majorly fucked up in R2, and the Fleia was just the strawberry in the cake.

[bladeofdarkness]

my problem is that he took it all the way around in the wrong direction
he spends the season fighting against lelouch
the end result of this battle is the destruction of the the tokyo settlement and the deaths of 35 million people
and instead of having a "my god what have i done" moment and quiting the army forever after realizing that his way doesnt work and only causes death and misery
he ends up joining force with lelouch (the man responsible for the death and destruction)

and instead of trying to bring about peace using, you know, PEACEFUL means
they decide that what they should do is cause MORE pain and suffering and death, first and THEN bring about world peace using a method that is not only unreliable
but also based, in its entirety on a LIE

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

You ask me though, i think it was a natural outcome of "tired of pretending" and "fuck, i killed 483049304930 people" It is not like Suzaku was being dandy, he was majorly fucked up in R2, and the Fleia was just the strawberry in the cake.

Man, that's really messed up. He killed the entire world 80 times over.

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Lol, please he was never "heroic." He just accepted, that Lelouch's philosophy was right afterall. And that he did a lot of shit as well, and entered the emo-corner with Lulu and decided ZR. <--description in a shallow nutshell, that is lol

I can't say it was the right philosophy(but that's my opinion and got nothing to do with the series, hehe)... But it certainly was a necessity to end the war. Suzaku may be naive, but he's not dumb to think that keep doing what he did all the series was going to work after all that after the fleija and the recent stuff.

Blade, people change. Suzaku endured a lot of pain in the series and changed to fight against it.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Man, that's really messed up. He killed the entire world 80 times over.

He was too lethal-gun-mode, what can i say? 8D

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

I can't say it was the right philosophy(but that's my opinion and got nothing to do with the series, hehe)... But it certainly was a necessity to end the war. Suzaku may be naive, but he's not dumb to think that keep doing what he did all the series was going to work after all that after the fleija and the recent stuff.

Blade, people change. Suzaku endured a lot of pain in the series and changed to fight against it.

some people change
lelouch for example changed after ep 7

suzaku on the other hand, SNAPPED
thats not the same thing

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

some people change
suzaku on the other hand, SNAPPED
thats not the same thing

Ahhh, and by snapping you change you know. Especially if you are to take an 180o one turn. It makes sense for the way he changed, it is not like he had anything wait for him, Nunally was gone as well, because he was too pride-ish to let go of Guren fight, that was pwning his ass. Or so he thought.

[bladeofdarkness]

who on earth would figure that after causing the deaths of 35 million people due to his own stubbornness
suzaku would figure that the right thing to do was to go and kill even MORE people

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

who on earth would figure that after causing the deaths of 35 million people due to his own stubbornness
suzaku would figure that the right thing to do was to go and kill even MORE people

Told you, too fucked-up-ery, cannot blame the guy after all he's been through, ahh.

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

who on earth would figure that after causing the deaths of 35 million people due to his own stubbornness
suzaku would figure that the right thing to do was to go and kill even MORE people

Well, turning into a monk was not going to help anything either...

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Well, turning into a monk was not going to help anything either...

it was the more REASONABLE course of action
it makes more sense then just saying "i kill a lot of people, and that makes me feel sad"
"so the solution isnt to stop killing, but rather to stop CARING"
"that way, i can keep killing people, without feeling sad"

[yvj]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

it was the more REASONABLE course of action
it makes more sense then just saying "i kill a lot of people, and that makes me feel sad"
"so the solution isnt to stop killing, but rather to stop CARING"
"that way, i can keep killing people, without feeling sad"

I'm going to be honest while watching R1 I sort of expected Suzaku to be the one who would uphold some resemblance of an ideal "justice." Or more specifically I thought by the end Suzaku would be the closest to a "shonen" hero like Kenshin from Rurouni Kenshin after his man slayer days.

Thank God I didn't bet on it. Did anyone feel like this?

[snowdevil_crow]

In conclusion, Suzaku and Lelouch went off the deepend and became major douchebags by the end of the series, in order to make their dream of a peaceful world a reality. And, uh, well... their reasoning was never all that logical, but whatevs. XD

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by yvj

I'm going to be honest while watching R1 I sort of expected Suzaku to be the one who would uphold some resemblance of an ideal "justice." Or more specifically I thought by the end Suzaku would be the closest to a "shonen" hero like Kenshin from Rurouni Kenshin after his man slayer days.

Thank God I didn't bet on it. Did anyone feel like this?

I did as well. And then i realize, that it is Sunrise, and there is gonna be trolling, oh yes. 8D

p.s even though, after Suzaku's freakout, after Mao revealed about his papa, i was pretty sure he was gonna commit suicide or something, lol