Sword Art Online - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

It was a very short ten seconds.

Out of boredom, I went back to that scene and counted the seconds leading up to when he was ready. They actually do buy him 10 seconds--depending on where you start, they buy him more than 10 seconds, in fact.

[Karakuri]

Anyways, guys, who wants to see Kirito being defeated by Heathcliff?
If that happened, Kirito wouldn't be the OP character everyone thinks he is, and it would show if he is concered about joining a guild, or if he really doesn't care as long as he is by Asuna's side? It is clear he likes her.

OR

Who wants to see Kirito defeating Heathcliff, this way not letting him stay with both of them, a guy who ( supposedly ) thinks of their members as " mere tools " that only he decides if they leave or not?

( I don't really think Heathcliff is doing it because he thinks he owns her, but just as it was mentioned, because he wants Kirito )

[Deltaray]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Bosses in MMORPGs games aren't supposed to be soloed, and this show has made a point of that until now.

For what I know, almost every boss in TERA for example can be soloed, they just take very and long time.

[Rising Dragon]

If Heathcliff beats Kirito next episode I get the feeling a lot of people would claim hax on his part or something. I'd be fine with it, but I imagine a lot of others wouldn't be...

[Karakuri]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

If Heathcliff beats Kirito next episode I get the feeling a lot of people would claim hax on his part or something. I'd be fine with it, but I imagine a lot of others wouldn't be...

Well I guess so, but hey, Kirito has an unique ability, Heathcliff could also have one, right?
Heathcliff may be as much commited to this game as Kirito, gaining a tanky skill maybe?
Well I'd be fine with it too.

[Deathscyther]

Great episode! 10/10.

Like many other people have already said, it's good that animating the side stories at the start is finally paying off. This episode wouldn't have been the same without episodes 3-7.

Even though the action was awesome, I'd have to say that the characterization and character development made this episode a near perfect one. These last few episodes show that, even though they are two of the strongest swordsmen in this world, Kirito and Asuna both have their own problems to deal with. They both have their own weaknesses. And it seems that they will be able to help each other overcome these weaknesses by sticking together.

Especially Kirito's traumas were shown. The episode conveyed perfectly that Kirito still can't forgive himself for what happened in the past.

The first moment I liked was the moment Klein entered the safe zone. The moment Kiroto noticed that it was Klein who entered, he looked away from Klein with an ashamed and guilty look on his face. In the first episode he left Klein and his friends, because he wanted to level as fast as he could and he decided that he wouldn't be able to do that if he had to protect Klein and his friends along the way. In the end Kirito decided to go alone. This subtle action of looking away shows that this decision haunts him even now.

The second moment was the moment Kiroto heard that there's an anti-crystal trap in the boss room. Once he heard that he became scared, really scared. I'm 100% certain that this isn't because he's afraid of dying himself. Kirito showed us multiple times before that he's able to place his life on the line to save people. Some examples:

• deciding to fight the boss of the first floor after seeing Diabel die, even though he wasn't sure that he was able to win (episode 2)

• chasing the enemy by himself right after seeing a player got OHKO'd in a safe zone right before his eyes (episode 6)

• driving away the 3 laughing coffing members with a bluff, while he probably would have lost 1 vs 3 (episode 6)

• jumping after Liz when she fell down the hole and taking most of the impact of the fall (episode 7)

No, although he was scared, he definitely wanted to rush in and save those army people, but his trauma came back to haunt him. A long time ago he lost his guildmates because of the same kind of trap. Everyone died because he wasn't able to protect them, even though he was much stronger than them. So he became scared of entering the boss room now because he was afraid that he wouldn't be able to protect his friends and everyone else once again. He was afraid of seeing people die before him. He told Liz that he'd rather die together than survive alone after all.
Only after Asuna ran in first was he able to move his legs. I think he wasn't even thinking while rushing in. Protecting Asuna was the only thing on his mind at that moment. Kirito was only able to really make up his mind during the battle. Looking around he was able to see his most important people in this game, Asuna and Klein, and lots of near dead soldiers. Remembering how he lost Sachi already, he decided that he couldn't let anyone else die. Instead of fearing of losing them, he just had to make sure that he wouldn't lose them. There was only one way to accomplish this. He'd just have to defeat the boss himself with everything he had, even if it meant dying himself.

The guild master challenging Kirito at the end of the episode was kind of surprising. I guess that he wants someone of Kirito's caliber in the guild. The guy has a kind of air around him which makes me think that he'll be able to match Kirito. I have a feeling that he'll beat Kirito, seeing how Kirito has been winning everything until now. But if that happens, wouldn't that mean that he'll have to change to the guild uniform? Kirito in white clothes...?

But even if Kirito loses, I'm sure he won't feel too bad. He'll be able to be with Asuna either way after all. I don't think he wants to continue soloing after knowing what it's like to spend time with her. Even though he is a beater, even though he left everyone behind, she's still willing to stay by his side. He probably won't be able to go on without her cooking any longer either.

[SilverSyko]

Sooooooo what's the problem with Kirto's "power-up" exactly? The only complaint I'm seeing was that it was "corny" (which is purely an opinion) and that it didn't involve any teamwork. (Which shouldn't matter since earlier Asuna and Klein were getting some hits on it anyway.)

It was cool, so as long as they give an explanation down the road on how he obtained the Duel Blade skill, I don't really think it matters that he managed to finish off the enemy himself.

And he collapsed from exhaustion right after he finished it off and only had a sliver of HP remaining, so you can't really call that "hax".

[Adigard]

Let me try to address some of these issues, because I'm not certain we're watching the same show.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

They were working alongside each other just fine last episode.

When? Last episode saw Asuna fighting, then shouting switch, then Kirito killing the monster. No? There was only a single Kirito x Asuna fight in the last episode, it happened around the 20:00 mark. Asuna fights, still frames, Switch!, Kirito kills it.

Earlier you pointed out the Ep2 fight as an example of people fighting together... but go back and watch that episode again please. It simply didn't happen that way.

Sure, we see big masses of player's standing in front of the boss, but when it comes down to actually landing blows... Egil runs up and lands a hit, then the "Beaters are bad guy" lands a hit.

When Asuna and Kirito are fighting the trash mobs... Kirito lands a hit, Switch!, Asuna lands a hit. The ONLY time Asuna and Kirito attack that boss together was the final blow. And that was announced by Kirto (hey asuna, let's hit it together) and they run up and land their blows.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

And how hard is it for a heavy hitter to grab attention/aggro while a speedy attack hits its weak points? The boss was certainly big enough so that they wouldn't run into each other. Plenty of room to maneuver.

You're certainly correct there... But I'd like to point out in 9 episodes of fights we just don't really see it happen that way. I'll admit in one of the earlier fights we see Klein's guild hitting a wolf... but again. Player A lands a hit, then Klein lands a hit. They're not all whaling away on the monster at the same time.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

As in this fight, and every other boss fight where large groups of people worked together and didn't hit each other with their attacks?

Please find that scene, okay? Find a scene in this show where multiple people are landing hits, together, on the same monster. Not a scene where people are all crowded around a monster... but actually all landing hits together.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Doesn't........that go both ways? My original post was me stating the bottom line for what the people with a problem were trying to say. By your own words, It was others who were trying to tell me it wasn't a problem. I wasn't looking to control anybody's opinions; people replied to my post and I replied back.

I'm just trying to point out that things in this show don't seem to work they way you seem to think they do...

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Adigard

I'm just trying to point out that things in this show don't seem to work they way you seem to think they do...

Well, it wasn't a monster, though I'm sure they saw him as one... but there was that point where Rosalia's gang attacked Kirito. Does that count?

[MartianMage]

Personally I don't think the author was trying to be sexist and all. Instead of just looking at Asuna you should consider the fact that there a lot more male characters at that time who could have helped but did not. This empasizes that Kirito is overpowered and I don't see why is this a problem here. It's been emphasized before that Kirito is a lot more powerful than the others so why is it a problem now? He solo'd a raid boss before, right? Being a solo player and a grinder Kirito is bound to be higher level compared to the majority.

[Adigard]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Well, it wasn't a monster, though I'm sure they saw him as one... but there was that point where Rosalia's gang attacked Kirito. Does that count?

Well, they are murder's, it's possible they wouldn't really worry about friendly fire ^_^

But yes, excellent point... That was a scene with multiple people landing blows on one person, all together (although if anyone tries to use that as proof I'll simply point out that Kirito, as a monster stand-in for that scene, did not move nor fight back. It's possible a dozen people could land hits on a totally stationary target easier than landing those hits on a monster moving and fighting back).

[Karakuri]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Well, it wasn't a monster, though I'm sure they saw him as one... but there was that point where Rosalia's gang attacked Kirito. Does that count?

But we do not know if people from the same guild can kill each other...I think they aren't able to, right? It would be the most logical decision to be made in there...
I think they were all from the same guild...I don't really remember it. Guess I'll re-watch it.
So, if they are from the same guild, and aren't able to kill each other, it would be different.
But still, that was a nice thinking of you, I wouldn't remember that scene hehe

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

Personally I don't think the author was trying to be sexist and all. Instead of just looking at Asuna you should consider the fact that there a lot more male characters at that time who could have helped but did not. This empasizes that Kirito is overpowered and I don't see why is this a problem here. It's been emphasized before that Kirito is a lot more powerful than the others so why is it a problem now? He solo'd a raid boss before, right? Being a solo player and a grinder Kirito is bound to be higher level compared to the majority.

*Thumbs up... now we're friends!

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

There is always be our mother and imouto..... not necessarily, girlfriends or wives...

My sister died when she was born, and my mom dis-owned me when I was 13. So I don't even have that going for me.

I must be the only guy here, who still likes the 'hero pulls power move out of his ass to save the day at the last moment' trope. -hides-

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

They were working alongside each other just fine last episode. And how hard is it for a heavy hitter to grab attention/aggro while a speedy attack hits its weak points? The boss was certainly big enough so that they wouldn't run into each other. Plenty of room to maneuver.
Because part of teamwork is not charging in in the middle of your partner's big attack at all. And I just typed this out in my big post above.

Yes, but that was while he was fighting using one sword, not two. His fighting style changed. No matter how skilled a fighter one is, they'd need to adapt to such a change if they want to work together with that person. Eh, it depends on the aggro. Sometimes, the person who deals the largest amount of damage gets aggro, other times, it's the member with the least amount of HP/def/whatever. Not to mention that hitting weak points quickly could to some serious DPS.
Plus, since this game is set in a world where VR gaming is possible, the AI could've had some tricks up its sleeves. Yes, but keeping him busy from the front doesn't mean it'll stop him from say, using his tail to attack someone attempting to flank him.

Yes, that's true. It involves knowing when to switch in, which was something Asuna and co. didn't know in this battle. But how was she supposed to know that it was a 16 hit skill? The only person who knew that was probably Kirito himself. Sorry, I tend not to read the bits of long replies that aren't directed at me (that's if they weren't, because if they were, I missed them).

But wouldn't every player fighting a boss fight in a game where you can really die also go through the adrenaline rush? As in this fight, and every other boss fight where large groups of people worked together and didn't hit each other with their attacks?

Yes, but not every person is capable of putting that adrenaline to use (the whole fight vs flight debate, and how some people get stuck in the dead centre and just freeze on the spot). Similarly, not every gamer is good, and not every fighter is strong/capable of fighting well.

Usually, boss fights that involve large amounts of people are planned. This wasn't. How do you fight alongside someone who's using a completely different style of fighting? There hasn't been a fight (at least we haven't heard of one) where the sword skills of one person had, or seemed to have (would you really chance getting hit by them?) a wide range. And even if there was, the person who had it/them should've told the other people, so that they knew when to jump back/side step and when to return to fighting the boss.

Originally Posted by justinstrife

I must be the only guy here, who still likes the 'hero pulls power move out of his ass to save the day at the last moment' trope. -hides-

Eh, that trope can be pretty fun, as long as it's not.. well, crappy. ;p

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

My sister died when she was born, and my mom dis-owned me when I was 13. So I don't even have that going for me.

I must be the only guy here, who still likes the 'hero pulls power move out of his ass to save the day at the last moment' trope. -hides-

You're teacher!!!

Anyway, when I mention this.... Behind every man's success is a woman... ... It's doesn't necessarily meant they've supported or they're you're inspiration, it also means... "you worked hard to proved them they're wrong when they looked down on you in the past and that made you strive more to succeed"...

*seems, we need a "Life Councelling Thread" right now....

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

I must be the only guy here, who still likes the 'hero pulls power move out of his ass to save the day at the last moment' trope. -hides-

I have to admit, for me there's sort of a brain/heart disconnect. My brain goes "oh come on, that is so cheap! That is way too awfully convenient...", but my heart goes "That's so cool!!!" So yeah, I'm torn. I enjoy it... but part of me thinks I should really hate it.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I have to admit, for me there's sort of a brain/heart disconnect. My brain goes "oh come on, that is so cheap! That is way too awfully convenient...", but my heart goes "That's so cool!!!" So yeah, I'm torn. I enjoy it... but part of me thinks I should really hate it.

Well the move has to be at least somewhat cool. It can't be complete cheese or anything.

[Iron Maw]

Is it bad that I laughed at the beginning when Kirito and Asuna were running away terrified?

Eithercase this airing was well done. It was nice Klein and Liz show up again, even if Liz inclusion here was kinda of pointless. The scene were Klein got punched by Kirito was also pretty amusing when you consider he likely lost HP from that. I can't say feel bad for what happened to Army either, they were warned of dangers of that Boss and have been SAO long enough to learn not to take things for granted.

Of course the main highlight of this week the "Gleameyes fight" where Kirito finally displayed the whole point of his second sword. That was pretty much the best battle sequence in the series so far. Granted, it didn't have much competition in that area and there was a fair share of camera tricks and still shots, but at least it was actually animated this time. The Dual Blades looked neat (and really overpowered ) and almost made seem like Kirito solo'd the Boss alone. It felt like the "1HP" was added there to show he had some difficulty, but wasn't very convincing. Unfortunately Asuna (and now Klein for the matter) continuing getting the shaft here. That aside, I hope we get more explanation on where Kirito this "skill" rather than it falling into his lap.

There are a somethings that I don't get though, like why all the drama over map data? Last I checked, I thought everyone in the frontlines were working together to get out of game? Hoarding and charging for things like this that can save many lives and stymie teamwork sounds ridiculous. I also feel KiritoxAsuna pairing is progressing a tad too fast, especially since we have only seen them eating food together for millionth time and making small talk. Now he suddenly "wants" her? Besides if Asuna wanted to leave the guild and join Kirito she could just quit, bypassing the need for a duel at all.

In the end, I enjoyed this week a lot with very little in the way of complaints. 8/10

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Well the move has to be at least somewhat cool. It can't be complete cheese or anything.

And there needs some kind of foreshadowing. I like when the protag is strong and saves the day - it's the whole point to experiencing a story. You experience vicariously through the character(s), as if you were the one saving the girl with super awesome attacks.

And I am fine with it so long as it isn't out of no where but not heavily foreshadowed.