Islam banned Jojo

[Gotank]

Wow, this is infinitely silly. I don't hear Europe banning Code Geass because the show portrayed it as a powerhouse seeking world domination. Religion as a whole is getting way too much respect than it deserves; as stated, making fun of someone's religion should no more inflame that individual than making fun of his musical preference or political stance. It is, after all, only a variety of unfounded belief systems shared by a minority.

It's things like these that further justify the portrayal of a said culture in a negative light and confirm the stereotypes that people hold against them.

[yezhanquan]

Please correct me if I'm wrong. From what I gathered, the company only suspended the sale of the offending OVA, right? If that's the case, I think the OP is slightly misleading. Then again, if those guys can't tell the difference between manga and OVA, then we have a problem here.

[2H-Dragon]

Originally Posted by Gotank

Wow, this is infinitely silly. I don't hear Europe banning Code Geass because the show portrayed it as a powerhouse seeking world domination. Religion as a whole is getting way too much respect than it deserves; as stated, making fun of someone's religion should no more inflame that individual than making fun of his musical preference or political stance. It is, after all, only a variety of unfounded belief systems shared by a minority.

It's things like these that further justify the portrayal of a said culture in a negative light and confirm the stereotypes that people hold against them.

Are you serious? For most people religion is more important then race or even family. While racism is one thing, I'm sick and tired of defending my religion. Minority? Just so you know there are more people who believe in Islam(21%) then that are non religous people(16%). This isn't about being oversensetive. Let's do an experiment go to the bronx and call someone a Nigger let's see what their reaction is.

No it's people who that think the actions of one or two people represent that of the whole religion.

[aers]

I think the issue here is the magnitude of the 'offending material'. As far as I know it's a single scene in episode 6? of the OVA where Dio happens to be reading a copy of the Qu'ran. The animators probably added it as flavor due to the location the incidents in the OVA occur.

If they're up in arms over this, was there major backlash when the people in the Middle East in Gundam 00 were portrayed as terrorists?

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by aers

I think the issue here is the magnitude of the 'offending material'. As far as I know it's a single scene in episode 6? of the OVA where Dio happens to be reading a copy of the Qu'ran. The animators probably added it as flavor due to the location the incidents in the OVA occur.

If they're up in arms over this, was there major backlash when the people in the Middle East in Gundam 00 were portrayed as terrorists?

Probably, they didn't know. If there's one stereotype that's slightly more true than others about the Arab world, it is that they fancy themselves as perfect, and that "outsiders" have nothing to show them.

[2H-Dragon]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Probably, they didn't know. If there's one stereotype that's slightly more true than others about the Arab world, it is that they fancy themselves as perfect, and that "outsiders" have nothing to show them.

Actually I'd bet on that people there place importance or religion rather then race. Come on it's nothing new to show people from the middle east in American movies say Iron Man, any game that feature modern warfare. They didn't care, because they didn't touch on the religion thing. The people are similar to here when it's about where you are from, but religion is another ball game.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

Actually I'd bet on that people there place importance or religion rather then race. Come on it's nothing new to show people from the middle east in American movies say Iron Man, any game that feature modern warfare. They didn't care, because they didn't touch on the religion thing. The people are similar to here when it's about where you are from, but religion is another ball game.

I would disagree. The Arab world is still largely feudal, both in terms of government and education. Literacy rate is generally lower, especially for women. So far, what I can see is that the governments are trying to use oil wealth to "buy" modernity, without bothering to take a look at the "softer" stuff.

I believe the real reason for this "importance" of religion is that they have nothing else to engage in. Not a single Arab country is a democracy. I think it says a lot.

[The Chaos]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

I would disagree. The Arab world is still largely feudal, both in terms of government and education. Literacy rate is generally lower, especially for women. So far, what I can see is that the governments are trying to use oil wealth to "buy" modernity, without bothering to take a look at the "softer" stuff.

I believe the real reason for this "importance" of religion is that they have nothing else to engage in.

I'll Disagree With You..Since I'm Woman Living in Middle East
Maybe you Should See Middle East Before Saying Anything About it

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by The Chaos

I'll Disagree With You..Since I'm Woman Living in Middle East
Maybe you Should See Middle East Before Saying Anything About it

Well, for starters, I can say with certainty that you live in the city. Next, I don't think you're the majority in your country, although I acknowledge that some Arab states are moving along much faster than others.

Are you from the UAE (or any Middle Eastern country where oil isn't a main export product anymore)? Dubai is interesting, as it says it wants to learn from Singapore (my country).

[2H-Dragon]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

I would disagree. The Arab world is still largely feudal, both in terms of government and education. Literacy rate is generally lower, especially for women. So far, what I can see is that the governments are trying to use oil wealth to "buy" modernity, without bothering to take a look at the "softer" stuff.

I believe the real reason for this "importance" of religion is that they have nothing else to engage in. Not a single Arab country is a democracy. I think it says a lot.

While I doubt that. It's beside the point. You thought that the arab people cared if they where portrayed badly. They get that all the time, but they don't care, but they do care about religion.

Mind you this isn't about arabs. This about Muslim all over the world. Mind you the largest Islamic country isn't even in that area. Nothing else to engage in? What do you think it looks like? A ghetto without TV, internet or anything?

[yezhanquan]

The negative stereotypes of the Muslim world do not come from Indonesia, but the Middle East. All those talk about fiery mullahs and such came from the region. Of this, Saudi Arabia is a major player. It would seem that "Islam" = "Arab", even in the eyes of many non-Arab Muslims.

It says something that 20 years ago, Indonesians don't even know where Palestine is. Now, they're fighting for it.

A majority (or at least large part) of the region IS a ghetto. They can see modernity in terms of hardware. But, jobs are hard to come by. Why, they even import a large amount of labourers to go along with the hardware.

As a religion, Islam has local variants. All religions do. However, some are seeing that anything which is not Arabic will be equivalent to non-Islamic.

[2H-Dragon]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

The negative stereotypes of the Muslim world do not come from Indonesia, but the Middle East. All those talk about fiery mullahs and such came from the region. Of this, Saudi Arabia is a major player. It would seem that "Islam" = "Arab", even in the eyes of many non- Arab Muslims.

It says something that 20 years ago, Indonesians don't even know where Palestine is. Now, they're fighting for it.

A majority (or at least large part) of the region IS a ghetto. They can see modernity in terms of hardware. But, jobs are hard to come by. Why, they even import a large amount of labourers to go along with the hardware.

Yeah, but the thing is. The point I was trying to get across with the massive amount of believers it is not weird that people complained. I'm not talking about the treaths. People seem to be oversensetive about believers being oversensetive.

Well yeah they can fight for it and have every reason to do it. The only reason the rest of the world don't do squat is that Israel and the States are alies.

Still they can do a lot of other things and the majority of believers are not because we have nothing better do type of people.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

Yeah, but the thing is. The point I was trying to get across with the massive amount of believers it is not weird that people complained. I'm not talking about the treaths. People seem to be oversensetive about believers being oversensetive.

Well yeah they can fight for it and have every reason to do it. The only reason the rest of the world don't do squat is that Israel and the States are alies.

Still they can do a lot of other things and the majority of believers are not because we have nothing better do type of people.

Agree.

Another reason why we sit on the fence on the Palestine issue is that the only solution is one that is unacceptable to both sides. Israel will have to give up land to create a Palestine (unacceptable to Jewish hardliners), but those who were evicted in 1948 cannot return to Israel, at least not all of them (unacceptable to the Arab world).

Even with US support, Israel is getting tired of endless skirmishes. Now, even the Golan Heights is up on the table.

[X10A_Freedom]

Originally Posted by aohige

You are somehow under the impression that negative image of Islam is unique to the "Western" communities???

I don't even know how to respond to this.

The western hemisphere love using "International Community" to depict their stance on wordly matters, forgetting that Europe and North America isn't even half the world. One must remember that only 20% of the world population are in the "West". I come from a city which has refused to become 100% westernised but not 100% traditional either, which resulted in general bewilderment at world events more than anything else. I've also seen the rather atrocious quality of the "free" press regarding recent events in China, and I wouldn't be surprised if the same double standards apply to press coverage concerning Islam.

I'm no Muslim, and I have no love nor hate for Muslims. I'm simply trying my best to be objective and neutral.

[Slice of Life]

When some Muslims threaten some Japanese what exactly does that have to do with the "West"?

[WanderingKnight]

Why don't we ban every anime or Japanese game portraying an evil church then? If we're going to ban everything that "offends" religion.

[LiberLibri]

As the basis of discussion: the antagonist reading Koran is neither Arab nor muslim. He is an evil vampire from England. He is reading the book not for religious piety, but just for light interest. The behaviour "ordering manslaughter while reading a book for pastime" signifies his cruelty. Protestors do not care for the whole story though.

@tripperazn, toua

If subbers would share the risk with creators and fight together against the thugs, such slogan could sound pretty. But in reality it is only the creators who will be the target of flame. When the fanatics come to do something lunatic, subbers and leachers just shurug the shoulders, murmur "oh, crazy" on their blogs, yawn and go to bed. That's all.

Yes freedom of expression is precious and must be observed to death. I totally agree the principle. I am not talking on the legitimacy of the protestors. Nobody can justifiably defence them. Rahter, my point is this: Subbers ignore the freedom of the creators not to express in a specific market, shifting all the responsibility for the result onto them. If fansubbing is inevitable, they should at least try not to bring noisy troubles to the creators for their fun. It's not legality but morality.

[Zippicus]

Originally Posted by LiberLibri

As the basis of discussion: the antagonist reading Koran is neither Arab nor muslim. He is an evil vampire from England. He is reading the book not for religious piety, but just for light interest. The behaviour "ordering manslaughter while reading a book for pastime" signifies his cruelty. Protestors do not care for the whole story though.

lol, ok at first I just thought it was people being oversensitive to a work of fiction. Now it's clear that they're just retarded and looking for a reason to cry about anything.

[Vexx]

The collision of small backwards communities with The Rest of The Planet has more to do with this than the particular religion.

Village elders and holy people who are simply used to being the final word on any subject are grappling with the idea that 6 billion other people may not give a flying hoot about their crazy interpretation of a book. Sooooo, they issue death threats and send thugs trying to assert their "final say" on the whole planet.

It really doesn't matter which religion --- Islam is simply one of the younger aggressive religions and some strains of it are following the same pattern that Judaism and Christianity did in its earlier years. Kill or convert anyone who annoys you because you're insecure.
No justification... just an explanation. There's no reason to give any interpretation of a religion a special pass if it threatens physical harm in response to critique.

[Gotank]

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

Are you serious? For most people religion is more important then race or even family. While racism is one thing, I'm sick and tired of defending my religion. Minority? Just so you know there are more people who believe in Islam(21%) then that are non religous people(16%). This isn't about being oversensetive. Let's do an experiment go to the bronx and call someone a Nigger let's see what their reaction is.

No it's people who that think the actions of one or two people represent that of the whole religion.

Every religion IS a minority. There are more people in this world that are non-Islamics than Islamics. It isn't about defending your religion. I have no problems, for example, of someone believing in whatever they believe in, regardless of if they defend it or not. I'm against the fact that they expect such belief system to command unwarranted respect from people who don't share their views. Let's face it, if you openly declare that you believe in stuff like talking snakes and then present a really really old book as your only supporting evidence, do you expect your belief system to not be ridiculed?

And airing an OVA in Japan that may or may not show Islamic culture in a bad light hardly equates to going to Bronx and calling someone a Nigger, mainly because the target audience is completely different.

On that last point, this is slightly different from just looking at a few individuals and stereotyping a group. Because unlike the other cases of false stereotype, these said individuals' actions are openly declared to be due to their culture/race/religion, etc.
Those that don't share the same views as these radicals should make their stance clear and open as well to dispel such myths.

@ LiberLibri - your last point is a very interesting one. Freedom of non-expression should definitely be reserved to the creators; however, does fan subbing a series really go that far. It is still the freedom of the audience on whether they want to view the materials or not. In the grand scheme of things, the language barrier can't really hold back this kind of thing. It's not like not a single Islamic person can understand Japanese. So as soon as words get out, the community will be doing what the fansubbers do on their own anyways.