Toradora! - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Kaiba]

I gave this a 9 because I am very strict about giving out 10s (probably have given out three 10s over 5 years of anime watching). All the same, this was an incredible episode, and from my perspective, is by far the best series of 2008. I really want to examine the continuing dynamics between Minorin and Ami, as we do see her pissed-off face again.

[Guardian Enzo]

Minorin + Ami + cat fight = win

10

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

eh if i were ami, i'd still wander why taiga would "hide" in the closet...idk i just feel like we're reading too much into it, but i'd hvae to go back to the episode to see for myself the exact details and when she looked over at the closet etc.

That's what I thought at first but the camera just kept going back to the towel being on the floor and we know how sharp Ami is.

Originally Posted by miroku2192

man they're really doing a good job with this series, despite the fact that ryuuji most likely won't end up with my favorite girl, Ami. I really hope they don't screw up the ending/last episode...that last episode can either propel/sustain this anime as one of my favorites/one of the better animes ever made or can easily ruin it and have people remember it as a mediocre series...

the ending has such a big impact >.<, i really hope they don't screw it up!

Yeah.. I'm said for the no Ami ending. But I have confidence they won't disappoint us though!

[Kushi]

Ami really just needs to spit out that she loves Ryuuji... such an instense and emotional episode, really picked up the pace! Everyone knows who loves who now! Goooo Ami!

[Guardian Enzo]

No question Ami knew Taiga was in there. Both she and Minorin always know more than they show, and hide their own true nature - but Ami is better and more subtle at the art. And she has the ability to pinpoint everyone's weakest point and pick, pick, pick at it till it bleeds - like a boxer going after an opponent's eye when he's cut. You can almost see her self-loathing as she does it, fighting with her darker instincts (not always successfully). And Minorin's defense mechanism is to ignore her own feelings completely and always try to be the good guy - which would be great if it weren't for the fact that it's impossible. Ami got a little too close to the truth, she saw her barriers in jeopardy and Meow! The fight was on.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Kushi

Ami really just needs to spit out that she loves Ryuuji... such an instense and emotional episode, really picked up the pace! Everyone knows who loves who now! Goooo Ami!

If she doesn't confess or if it doesn't get out somehow that she likes him.. I will be very disappointed.

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by Fran~

If Ami would know that, she would go to the closet and BAM!.
Ami is already pissed off with Ami's words, she is not paying attention if there is any men in the closet.

I don't think she knew the guys were there but she did briefly glance at the door before her and the rest of the group left the room. The show was hinting she knew where Taiga was (It's at 15:41 after Minori says they should make-up and forget everything).

[Fran~]

hmmm, i dont know... a japanese room is quite small, you can be looking to the entire room with just a glance.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

I don't think she knew the guys were there but she did briefly glance at the door before her and the rest of the group left the room. The show was hinting she knew where Taiga was (It's at 15:41 after Minori says they should make-up and forget everything).

eh i saw it as she was just looking away with disgust...maybe she knew, but my thoughts, if i WERE ami, would be, "why is taiga hiding anyway?". There's no legit reason for her to be purposefully hiding from them, so i don't see why ami would definitely jump to that conclusion...idk

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

eh i saw it as she was just looking away with disgust...maybe she knew, but my thoughts, if i WERE ami, would be, "why is taiga hiding anyway?". There's no legit reason for her to be purposefully hiding from them, so i don't see why ami would definitely jump to that conclusion...idk

Well they did cut to a close-up of the towel immediately after she looked in that direction. That's gotta mean something, right?

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Well they did cut to a close-up of the towel immediately after she looked in that direction. That's gotta mean something, right?

not necessarily... not every frame means something. It's different Taiga praying to Kitamura, than a group of people hiding inside the closet...
besides, Ryuuji and Taiga did know everything about that conversation.

Ami was sitting looking at that direction, Kashii and Kihara looking at Minori... the only way to Ami to look was in that direction.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Well they did cut to a close-up of the towel immediately after she looked in that direction. That's gotta mean something, right?

that's what i thought too, but again, it's not like ami knew the guys were there, if it's just taiga hiding, why would she hide you know? maybe she caught onto something IS in the closet, why she's not sure, but idk i feel that it's just weird. they don't really shed light on it later, so i wonder...

[Fran~]

I think that sometimes we already read too much between lines... somebody could tell that Minori put the hair clip in front of Ryuuji just for see his reaction, i dont know... to me is irrelevant, if Ami knows or dont if Taiga is there. The important is the outcome of the episode.

[Waking_Dreamer]

Or it could just be a plot hole...like how no one happened to notice taiga's slippers..

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

Or it could just be a plot hole...like how no one happened to notice taiga's slippers..

i don't see how that HAS to be a plot hole. One can easily walk out of there to the "guy's" section without the slippers, with another pair of shoes or something or just barefeet. It's not so attractive to walk to the guy's place with just slippers, what's to say she didn't change into a g00d looking attire...there are so many reasons as to why the slippers COULD'VE been left there with no actual Taiga IN the room

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by Fran~

not necessarily... not every frame means something. It's different Taiga praying to Kitamura, than a group of people hiding inside the closet...
besides, Ryuuji and Taiga did know everything about that conversation.

Ami was sitting looking at that direction, Kashii and Kihara looking at Minori... the only way to Ami to look was in that direction.

If this were live action I'd agree with you saying I'm reading too much into this but it's an animated series. Every glance and tick was planned and approved by the director. It's the same as seemingly meaningless or flippant actions described in a book.

[physics223]

Coming from a Catholic university, we had a recollection regarding relationships. One of the speakers noted that love was indeed like a gamble. There's a bigger chance of losing than winning. But if you'll never play, you'll never win.

[Noamara]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

that's what i thought too, but again, it's not like ami knew the guys were there, if it's just taiga hiding, why would she hide you know? maybe she caught onto something IS in the closet, why she's not sure, but idk i feel that it's just weird. they don't really shed light on it later, so i wonder...

Well, maybe someone who read the novels could enlighten us please? :>

10/10 as always (because I am not strict about giving 10 at all^^)

Poor Ami...

I read physics´ blog and come to the thought why Ami might react the she did. When I am right, then it is to me at least totally understandable.
I think Minori acts absolutely out of the same reason (or some kind of the same reason^^) as Ami did (maybe still does?) being Ami-chan in the past (present, too?). Minori does not want Taiga to learn about her feelings for Takasu. Acting airheaded as Ami-chan did and pretending everything is fine but lying to the best friend and to the guy she likes, Minori is contradicting. As Ami told her sarcastically (damn Ami..why not just being serious in this situation and telling Minori to tell Taiga that she likes Ryuuji because Ami knows Taiga likes him too, right?) that Minori´s wishes and actions contradict themselves and leading to Nice Boat...

What do I mean now? I think Ami clearly sees her old self in Minori now. Ami sees Ami-chan in Minori. Ami-chan was a coward that feared rejetion when showing her true self. Minori fears to be honest with Taiga and especially Ryuuji!!
Ami knows that and she despises that...Being Ami-chan led her to be anxious around people thus she became such an anxious girl that would even fear such an cowardly teen stalker (btw. can someone tell me why Ami´s father could not handle the stalker and beat the hell out of him? It is his daughter after all rofl..such a big story failure -.-´).

Again: Ami despises Ami-chan characters..Minori is Ami-chan at the moment. Or she was until now. Ami foresees a bad climax (Nice Boat?) in Minori´s really really stupid behavior (teenage girls ._.´) and it pisses her off.

PS: to everyone that asks: "Why does not Ami just confess since she probably can not make Ryuuji pay her more and especially serious attention towards her feelings and that that is the only way how we can get an RyuujiXAmi ending?"

As most of the people here are guys and I am a girl I will tell you of course, though it is not difficult at all and I really can not believe nobody would not know that oO..(please tell me you knew that all along...ahhh...I would not believe you anyway^^)

So here the answer: A girl wants the boy to come to like her by his own. It is degrading for a girl to confess to a guy and especially as a teenage girl to a teenage guy because of all the hormones (TESTOSTERONE). Nearly all (if not really all) teenage guys would take every chance to get a girlfriend, someone to kiss, hug, doing H-Stuff with. I guess we can exclude Ryuuji from that sort of trash.

Some guys choose a girl because they feel it subconsciously. They think they like the girl but do not know that it is just the hormones controlling their desires! (Makoto I hate you!!!!)

If a teenage boy gets confessed by a (at least normal looking) a girl, he seriously might skip the emotional part, the process of falling in love and realizing why he even loves particularly that one girl. (again Makoto...eww...that is one of the reasons why I am a Yuri)

A confession by a guy is a serious matter for many girls. If Ryuuji does not confess to Ami then it shows she is not that special to him. But in this special case Ryuuji thinks Ami is teasing him, Ami should only confess by giving Ryuuji a slap in the face and saying the 3 words in very rage mood! And then telling him "I told you you are an idiot that is why I also hate you!" That would confuse him and not take her lightly as Makoto did with Kotonoha and ....all other girls...asifjasifjasijfasj I hate heterosexuality :S but RyuujiXAmi ftw!

[Tri-ring]

To me it was just a replay of Taiga and Sumire played by Ami and Minori.
Ami is angry and even dared Minori to reject Ryuji in the face if she is not interested just like what Taiga did to Sumire.
The only difference is that between Sumire and Kitamura there was no one else but with Minori and Ryuji the reason was Taiga, not a circumstance, making the situation more complicated and why Minori was willing to step up to Ami's dare.
There was nothing to gain for Ami whether Minori rejected Ryuji in the face or not she was just infuriated by Minori's attitude leaving Ryuji on a thread like that just like Taiga was infuriated by Sumire's action.

[KaneDragon]

I dropped the novels/anime because Taiga was too irritating a character, then decided to pick it up again with this episode when I heard about the fight between Ami and Minori. Yeah, I kinda missed a lot, but oh well. Those two had some very interesting interactions, and this episode only increased my sympathy for Ami. She seemed really sincere at times, like when she was talking to Ryuuji while making a snow pile. Too bad that got cut short.

I guess I'll follow the rest of the series since I've come back, see how everyone's changed.