Total Eclipse - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[SoFarGone]

Originally Posted by galdr

The only problem I have with this episode is the QUALITY.
Seriously, Muv-Luv is quite popular franchise, why can't they get better animators?

From what I've heard they didn't receive much budget for this.

[potchip]

Originally Posted by DoomRavager

We don't have to assume it was a repeated stream of projectiles because even leaving aside the forbidden description of its function in the LN and manga (in a very early scene from the very beginning of the story that the anime decided to skip) it is shown as explicitly being one by the animation itself. Then with the kind of velocity railgun shots achieve, each shot will be penetrating through a ton of BETA before coming to a stop, allowing for the kind of 'sweeping through the wave' effect.

But the answer to how they might have conceivably provided the energy supply and the barrel cooling system for a railgun that could fire at that speed for that long is beyond the scope of what the anime bothers to really explain (thanks to skipping that one scene from the very start of the story).

Besides, ammunition supply for a gun that fires 800rpm isn't that unimaginable, even if energy and required cooling system is.

Err...no. Not even 800 RP/S would've covered the type of density required to do what was portrayed at the maximum range. We are talking about kilometres of radius - you divide that by 800, is still very very VERY sparse. No projectile weapon will ever achieve the outcome, the gun itself simply doesn't have the mass to do so.

Nothing short of an all conquering beam would've achieved what was showed and honestly, to pack that amount of energy into a rifle that size, is more impressive than fusion reactors.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

How do you know that there's nothing for them to gain by doing so? We don't know their motives.

Yes, it's daft. Yes, it's outrageous. And that's the whole point of it; it makes us want to hate them.

That's actually the main problem I have with this. Not knowing their motives just makes them look stupid, even if it's done to make us hate them. They could have written them in a different way that was believable, and still makeus hate them.

[Kyral]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

That's not possible considering how Yuuya used it. The beam literally -swiped- the wave of BETA in a single blow, and the surface covered is quite large (something like a 120° cone shaped area).
And even if we assume it was a repeated stream of projectiles, the ammunition and energy for that would be unimaginable, and there is no way a rifle would stand that, no matter how the setting is portraying the rifle as heat resilient.

This is why I had forgotten that it was a projectile weapon and not a lasor weapon. After I saw it my first thought was: "Lol, Yuuya is a Laser-Class now."

Me talking about railmachineguns was also just some attempt of suspension of disbelief. It's supposed to be a projectile gun? No problem! Brain? Give me some answer ASAP how a railgun can have this kind of effect. Ah yes, endless stream of bullets. See? No problem here... hehe... he...

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Keroko

They could have written them in a different way that was believable, and still makeus hate them.

Hmm, I strongly disagree that it wasn't believable, because as I've said, humans are only being humans; sometimes they just don't make sense. Anyway, I think it's too early to see that it "could've been written better", as I imagine a big part of this plan is still under wraps.. Or, at least I hope so..

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by potchip

Err...no. Not even 800 RP/S would've covered the type of density required to do what was portrayed at the maximum range. We are talking about kilometres of radius - you divide that by 800, is still very very VERY sparse. No projectile weapon will ever achieve the outcome, the gun itself simply doesn't have the mass to do so.

Nothing short of an all conquering beam would've achieved what was showed and honestly, to pack that amount of energy into a rifle that size, is more impressive than fusion reactors.

That would depend, after all a Ultimax 100 SAW going at full auto with a 50 round drum can cover 90 degrees arc of fire in one sweep (at 500 meters, about 196 000 meters of space are covered) before running out of ammo. It takes about 6 seconds to deplete the mag (accounting for the gas regulator lowering the blowback), in which time i can see the smaller trees start to fall over.

Add the fact that the velocity of the rounds are much higher in the railgun, while maintaining the same rate of fire, means the same amount of rounds exit the barrel in the same time, but you have a higher density of fire with much higher kinetic impact. So the animation might be wrong in the sense that the 'beam' maintains its straight line while sweeping, but in terms of output density, it could have the same effect as a minigun, despite the lower rate of fire.
The difference caused by the muzzle velocity would be something like below.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - high RoF, low Velocity
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Low RoF, Hi velocity.

It balances out the energy output in the end.

For density of fire, it would depend on his turning speed, and the speed of the projectile, not the rate of fire. Higher RoF means you can turn faster and maintain the straight line density of fire, while lower RoF means you turn slower to maintain.

I would like you to compare the two videos, taking into mind both are using tracer every 5th round. The Railgun would be a tracer every round from the friction through air. See the difference from 4000rpm to 900rpm? Not making much of a point, just showing why the railgun can be firing at MG speeds but still look like a minigun trail.

MG 42 at ~900 rmp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15IB5...eature=related
Minigun at ~4000rmp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0cRk...eature=related

[Pocari_Sweat]

Hmmm... for a Muv-Luv Alternative: Total Quality episode this was quite good! Came in expecting om nom nom (which I got), but I also got beam spam and character development. Yay. Couldn't hoped for more with what has been overall a lacklustre series.

More of these eps k plz? Maybe you might be more than tortilla chips then.

[potchip]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

Hmm, I strongly disagree that it wasn't believable, because as I've said, humans are only being humans; sometimes they just don't make sense. Anyway, I think it's too early to see that it "could've been written better", as I imagine a big part of this plan is still under wraps.. Or, at least I hope so..

Kinda like a typical argument between atheists and the religious:

A: Existence of God does not make logical sense. Show me evidence God exists.
R: How can humans comprehend God's design? Show me evidence God doesn't exist.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by potchip

Kinda like a typical argument between atheists and the religious:

A: Existence of God does not make logical sense. Show me evidence God exists.
R: How can humans comprehend God's design? Show me evidence God doesn't exist.

I guess it could be likened to one of those, yes.

In the end, I think it all comes down whether one can believe that humanity may have trouble uniting in a war against some alien race or not. I'd like to bring up some points about the V/N (the anime is an adaptation of the light novels, not that V/N), but this isn't the correct thread to do so.

[grevierr]

Oh man, I just played back the scene when Yuuya fired the railgun with the MLA gunbuster theme... It was fabulous...

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

I guess it could be likened to one of those, yes.

In the end, I think it all comes down whether one can believe that humanity may have trouble uniting in a war against some alien race or not. I'd like to bring up some points about the V/N (the anime is an adaptation of the light novels, not that V/N), but this isn't the correct thread to do so.

iirc, THAT one arc in MLA shed some light on why humans don't want to unite under a single flag.

[Wild Goose]

Regards the railgun, I am surprised that earlier posters totally missed that it was a projectile weapon, given the shots of the backpack ammo container, the ammo feed - ripped from the A-10 for usage of the GAU-8 - and Yuuya's command of "cartridge load" - though strictly speaking given the presumable caliber of those rounds "shell" would be more accurate...

Also gave me Nanoha flashbacks

And the stills looked alot like TSFiA, so I suppose it's forgivable, especially when lots of the budget got blown

[Trajan]

Generally a much better episode than the previous few, although the first 10 minutes or so could have done with fewer "offended & surprised" faces from Yuuya.

Poor Jacob, he forgot that he pilots a TSF that can operate on three axes, and got eaten because he forgot about "up".

The depiction of the railgun has been inconsistent though. Sometimes it is called a railgun, and sometimes a "radiation cannon", which would seem to indicate an energy weapon. The graphics appear to show a constant beam, but the 99 also appears to be belt-fed and it is stated it has a rate of fire. In the end, not that big a deal I guess. But I do have to say it was nice a detail to see Yuuya firing it from the ground, with the Shiranui's thrusters on full to counteract the recoil of the 99.

[DoomRavager]

It's only a constant beam from a distance, and "radiation cannon" is more of a derpy translation than anything. The proper name would be the EML-99X Electromagnetic Induction Launcher.

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by SoFarGone

From what I've heard they didn't receive much budget for this.

Which is bizarre considering the source franchise, you would think they get at least near Sword Art Online resource allocation.

In regard to this ep: humanity as a whole is indeed to dumb to be considered intelligent lifeforms.

[John117xCortana]

Originally Posted by grevierr

Oh man, I just played back the scene when Yuuya fired the railgun with the MLA gunbuster theme... It was fabulous...

Wait, it's in the MLA ost ? Whats the title ?

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Wait, it's in the MLA ost ? Whats the title ?

Its track 6 of the MLA OST Vol.2 No idea what title.


And oh god, I can't help myself, when I saw that Jacob die, this was the first thing to come to mind.

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[John117xCortana]

This ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T63Wn...hannel&list=UL

It doesn't sound like the one we hear in the ep at all.

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

This ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T63Wn...hannel&list=UL

It doesn't sound like the one we hear in the ep at all.

Oh, no, I meant I watched that part listening to this. Alternative players would get it.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

In the end, I think it all comes down whether one can believe that humanity may have trouble uniting in a war against some alien race or not. I'd like to bring up some points about the V/N (the anime is an adaptation of the light novels, not that V/N), but this isn't the correct thread to do so.

So this is the adaptation from the novel and not from the game version?