To Aru Majutsu no Index II - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[orion]

Originally Posted by Asuras

And like Klash said, why did they (every single one) have two fountain pens each?

Not all of them had fountain pens or Index wouldn't have a pile of bodies around her. Only a certain squad had the pens. Since they all had that blank look, maybe it was a specific training or brainwashing procedure that they went under. Agnese's bodyguards didn't have the pens either. They were inside the chapel.

[Asuras]

Jesus Christ. 99%?

But I thought they never even knew of Index's Sheoul thingie. Why would they have come prepared with fountain pens? Did they even know Index was coming in the first place?

[orion]

Originally Posted by Asuras

Jesus Christ. 99%?

But I thought they never even knew of Index's Sheoul thingie. Why would they have come prepared with fountain pens? Did they even know Index was coming in the first place?

Index is a living weapon. RC Church prob knows about her too just like the Anglican Church knew where the real document was. They saw her with Touma from the other episodes. It really doesn't take that much effort to pack the pens if you know where the living weapon resides. (If Orsola wasn't taking refuge with the Japanese branch then she was going to go to the Anglican Church.) You really can't have all your troops brainwashed so you only do it to a squad and fall back until she releases her weapon. Then deploy the squad to take care of her.

[outerelf]

Originally Posted by Asuras

Jesus Christ. 99%?

But I thought they never even knew of Index's Sheoul thingie. Why would they have come prepared with fountain pens? Did they even know Index was coming in the first place?

99%. All of my other scores leave something to be desired however.

They probably didn't know of Index's Sheoul Fear. However, seeming how they animated it according to the Light Novel- The nuns there had pens, and so they had here.

And it isn't all that far from the truth- Angese stated in the Light Novel that she wrote down instructions in a little booklet, and it was automatically sent to others, much like an e-mail. Thus, it's easy to assume each one had a pen to write in the booklet themselves. The second pen I can't say.

As for the training- please remember these are magicians. It could be possible to cast a spell that keeps their balance

[Skyfall]

A special brainwashed squad armed with dual pens in the event they feel the need to stab their own ears ? (ignoring the fact they seem perfectly unaffected standing more or less 3 meters away from her and could just lob a brick or two at her) The reason Index has a pile of bodies around her is because those didn't have time to react ... the nuns were not expecting to face off against Index at all. This episode was many things, but credible was not one of those, it was fairly silly from start to finish. Granted, Index has always relied more on "rule of cool" than anything else, so a certain degree of that is a given, but this episode just seemed to be overflowing with it.

[Equidistant]

Gotta love how after Touma preaches about the sanctity of Human lives, his group goes on to massacre a bunch of Nuns.

[outerelf]

Heh, True they go off to beat the nuns, but Touma himself can't kill with just a couple of punches unless he's really sadistic. The Aka group won't kill either, according to their policy learned from Kaori. That leaves Stiyl, and he likes Index too much to do something as dastardly as killing in front of her.

[Klashikari]

Say that to the nuns who were allegedly set on fire on the -front-. If we "assume" the flames didn't kill them, it still incapacitate them, so I don't think they are going to keep their pretty baby faces after that.

[Equidistant]

Originally Posted by outerelf

Heh, True they go off to beat the nuns, but Touma himself can't kill with just a couple of punches unless he's really sadistic. The Aka group won't kill either, according to their policy learned from Kaori. That leaves Stiyl, and he likes Index too much to do something as dastardly as killing in front of her.

lol, of course they won't actually die, but Stiyl did burn a few nuns alive, and the Aka leader did seem to cut one of their throats.

[outerelf]

It was explained in the light novel- what Stiyl was doing was he was using the fire to create a shock wave, which pushed the nuns back, knocking them unconscious.

And Aka leader himself stated that he isn't going to kill anyone, so even if it looks like it, he probably was using the flat of his blade to cut off the air and knock them unconscious.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

A special brainwashed squad armed with dual pens in the event they feel the need to stab their own ears ? (ignoring the fact they seem perfectly unaffected standing more or less 3 meters away from her and could just lob a brick or two at her) The reason Index has a pile of bodies around her is because those didn't have time to react ... the nuns were not expecting to face off against Index at all. This episode was many things, but credible was not one of those, it was fairly silly from start to finish. Granted, Index has always relied more on "rule of cool" than anything else, so a certain degree of that is a given, but this episode just seemed to be overflowing with it.

And have her bring out Dragon's Breath. That would be a worse case scenario for those nuns. Better to puncture the eardrums and have her so disgusted that she stops singing.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by outerelf

It was explained in the light novel- what Stiyl was doing was he was using the fire to create a shock wave, which pushed the nuns back, knocking them unconscious.

Bold statement is irrelevant. Whereas few instances are inherent from the LN (like the "pen countermeasure"), this is arguably not something you can argue, since it is how it is portrayed in the anime (basically, JC staff mistake here).
I mean: how can you consider shock wave when it is stuff like 18:57? That is a wall of flame if you ask me.
How about 20:55? looks like an ENGULFING flame, not a shock wave to me, and I doubt the nun was unconscious, she was rather being burnt, but that's me I guess.
[EDIT]: that gif is self explanatory.

By the way, it is irrealistic to create shock wave with flame (I don't say it is ireallistic to have a SW in Index in a sense since we are dealing with esper and magic. But you can't make SW by the use of flames. At the very best, you do that with a detonation, not with flame).

[outerelf]

Really? I didn't see anything being burnt or on fire other then Inn monster so I just assumed it was shock waves.

[Asuras]

Originally Posted by outerelf

And Aka leader himself stated that he isn't going to kill anyone, so even if it looks like it, he probably was using the flat of his blade to cut off the air and knock them unconscious.

I saw him strike their stomachs with a rather satisfying slicing sound several times. Do people get knocked unconscious by strikes to the stomach nowadays?

[Joe_fh]

An episode full of nuns being slaughtered, punched or burned until their skin turns brown - nice Seriously, it was brutal. Some of them probably fell from the roof and that fall could kill a person.

And Agnese looked like a cute little girl that was gentle and nice and yet she turned out to be a sadist that kicks helpless people with a smile on her face. That certainly was a surprise. I think there's more to her character than what we've seen so far. I'll have to wait and see (or go read some VN spoilers if there are any around )

The episode was interesting overall but there are a few things that kind of didn't make sense, or at least not at the moment.

As for the pens, it's natural they'd have one. The pens being Fountain pens also fits since well - we're talking about the Church here, they wont be using modern day pens now will they? It just seems more natural having those. As for puncturing their eardrums safely - there is no indication they did it "safely" Some of them probably won't be able to hear anything ever again (wonder how they'll hear their orders if they can't hear Index's song) - point is they were prepared to die thus puncturing their eardrums was nothing. The fact they did it with pens just shows they had nothing better to use at the moment.

I wonder why Kanzaki was just sitting there when she was well aware of what was going on yet she didn't show any indication she was about to go help them. She was probably confident they can handle things on their own but still - those were people she cared about a lot. Guess we'll find out more on this in the future.

[Shinji103]

@Klashikari+Others: Over-analysation of a fictional animated TV series is over-analysation.

You guys are honestly trying to apply scientific real-world reasoning to a science fiction television production? So is there some kind of scientific explanation for why Superman is made powerful by the sun? Or for zombies?

C'mon guys, really? Clearly those nuns have undergone serious training if they're all so willing to ruin their ears in a heartbeat like that. And in science fiction television, we all know that the right training can take you light years. You guys are almost like those other guys who try to over-analyze Accelerator vs Mikoto with scientific equations.

If nuns gutting their ears makes so little sense to you that it's bad, then how can you guys stand anything in science fiction television? This is probably one of the more believeable things I've seen.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Lucia's squad didn't show up until slight later after Index unleashed Sheol Fear, so given the delay, they could have gone to grab someone else's pen or something... Though personal I carry two pens myself in the event someone needs to borrow one, but these are all petty details.

I have a suggestion as to how further orders could be given out, remember the communication rune that Laura and Stiyl used in the beginning of the arc? That wouldn't require alot of effort at all.

Oh and to clear up something- Nobody died. Same thing because of group psychology, as of the moment the Nuns still have some form of self preservation meaning they're not totally into the idea of going all out since none of their friends are killed yet- You could see some of them already falling apart- But if the good guys started killing their comrades they might just bumrush them in a fit of rage with no regards to their wellbeing...

...Which I think just happened at the end

[Marcus H.]

Not being burnt alive or slashed by attacks?

Remember the Walking Church by Index? Hers is Pope Class, and I'm not surprised that these nuns have at most Bishop Class Walking Churches.

Shinji103 also takes the cake with his remark: Over-analysis of a fictional animated TV series is over-analysis.
Adding to this, people should analyze judging on the source, the adaptation and nothing else.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Not being burnt alive or slashed by attacks?

Well, I was under the impression that Saiji used the flat side of the blade

And Stiyl's fire was... First Degree

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Remember the Walking Church by Index? Hers is Pope Class, and I'm not surprised that these nuns have at most Bishop Class Walking Churches.

Oh yeah, that probably as well.

[SuzushinaYuriko]

That's a good point. The clothes of the nuns are most likely made of magic for protection against attacks, so I don't think any of the nuns are fatally injured.